RE: Dual-clutch Clio RS: the defence

[Gary C]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Can't argue with that, it was just the 'direct' bit could be taken to mean unsullied by a computer.

[Mr2Mike]

heebeegeetee said:

I'm sorry and and all that and I'm not looking to rain on anyone's parade here; I've given the matter some more thought and I still really don't see that brake fade can be used as a proof of driving fast or anything other than something is wrong.

No one has suggested brake fade is proof of driving fast, wherever did you get that bizarre idea from?

The fact of the matter is that you can quite easily fade brakes on many cars if you are pressing on on a twisty section. Obviously the fact that they are fading means you are demanding more of them than they are capable of, but that certainly doesn't mean there is anything wrong with them.

[heebeegeetee]

Mr2Mike said:

No one has suggested brake fade is proof of driving fast, wherever did you get that bizarre idea from?

I think it's almost the immediate reposnse, such as:

TameRacingDriver said:

heebeegeetee said:

Mr2Mike said:

Exactly. This particular one refuses to believe you could get brakes to fade on a public road, and spent a long arguing against what almost everyone knew to be a fact.

I'm standing by that one as well. Brake fade, in the UK? What do you think they're doing in the alps, with proper roads in proper temperatures? If brakes are fading in the uk they must be completely falling apart in the Alps. There has to be something drastically wrong for someone to fade their disc brakes in the UK.

Quite easy in a lot of cars to be quite honest especially if you drive with some gusto.

Fabia vRS TDI on standard equipment suffered from epic brake fade on some twisty B-roads. Not hard to see why. 1300+ KG of car, with lots of torque to ensure you can be going quite fast when you get to the next bend, repeat lots of times, brake fade city. If it wasn't the case, why did so many owners upgrade to 312mm Octavia brakes?

Clio 182 - A bad wheel design mean't not much brake ventilation through the wheels. Yes it could be cured with upgraded pads, but on standard equipment, they faded.

Driven any BMWs fast?

Or maybe your definition of hooning and mine are different? Or maybe you don't have many roads with corners, or B-roads?

The inference being that if you're not getting brake fade you're not driving fast enough, but I firmly believe that if you're getting brake fade and there's nowt wrong with the brakes then you're definitely braking too much (far too much imo) and thus possibly not going quite that fast after all.

[Mr2Mike]

heebeegeetee said:

The inference being that if you're not getting brake fade you're not driving fast enough, but I firmly believe that if you're getting brake fade and there's nowt wrong with the brakes then you're definitely braking too much (far too much imo) and thus possibly not going quite that fast after all.

The inference was that you had not driven hard enough to observe it. You seem to have your cause and effect mixed up since it would be very easily fade the brakes to nothing at quite low speeds by holding your foot on the brake.

Do you absolutely refuse to accept that the brakes on a modern car could possibly be inadequate for fast road use?

Edited by Mr2Mike on Friday 15th February 14:11

[heebeegeetee]

Mr2Mike said:

1. inference was that you had not driven hard enough to observe it. You seem to have your cause and effect mixed up since it would be very easily fade the brakes to nothing at quite low speeds by holding your foot on the brake.

2. Do you absolutely refuse to accept that the brakes on a modern car could possibly be inadequate for fast road use?

1. Yes of course, but as I said, there is something wrong. In this case the driver is holding the brakes on.

2. Whilst acknowledging that one should never say never, and obviously not having knowledge of every car out there, then I'm going to say yes, pretty much.

I drove a car recently that had a problem with its brakes after being standing for a while. I drove the car to see if the brakes would 'clean up'. At a suitable moment I stood on the brakes to see how they would perform and had the fairly unique experience of travelling in a car with the brake pedal near the floor, we're slowing down but we're really not stopping.

To me that is what genuine brake fade would feel like and I've never been in any other car that has done that, even when there's thick smoke billowing of the brakes.

[Gary C]

heebeegeetee said:

I drove a car recently that had a problem with its brakes after being standing for a while. I drove the car to see if the brakes would 'clean up'. At a suitable moment I stood on the brakes to see how they would perform and had the fairly unique experience of travelling in a car with the brake pedal near the floor, we're slowing down but we're really not stopping.

To me that is what genuine brake fade would feel like and I've never been in any other car that has done that, even when there's thick smoke billowing of the brakes.

Yep thats what it feels like. A chevette I had did it a lot but that was an old car. An astra I had with upgraded pads would never fade even with bright red disks and fire but the fluid did boil resulting in no brakes at all.

I would agree that its rare for a modern car in spirited driving to experience fade but it must be possible unless you have ceramics.

[Gary C]

heebeegeetee said:

I drove a car recently that had a problem with its brakes after being standing for a while. I drove the car to see if the brakes would 'clean up'. At a suitable moment I stood on the brakes to see how they would perform and had the fairly unique experience of travelling in a car with the brake pedal near the floor, we're slowing down but we're really not stopping.

To me that is what genuine brake fade would feel like and I've never been in any other car that has done that, even when there's thick smoke billowing of the brakes.

Yep thats what it feels like. A chevette I had did it a lot but that was an old car. An astra I had with upgraded pads would never fade even with bright red disks and fire but the fluid did boil resulting in no brakes at all.

I would agree that its rare for a modern car in spirited driving to experience fade but it must be possible unless you have ceramics.

[BadBanshee]

Aren't most cars on the road manual? Why not offer a manual and an automatic option like how it seems to work for most other car manufacturers.

Out of all the reasons to have a semi-auto why in the fk would it be for SPEED? First off, you're not really going to be going that much faster, and if it's a st one (like most of them are atm) then you may actually be going slower than in a manual.

Secondly, I don't understand why anybody would need to go that extra tenth of a second faster after a gear change on public roads. Obviously these people want to drive dangerously and without a care in the word for the speed limit because it will have only made a difference by the time you get to the top gears. In-gear acceleration is much more relevant.

No, the chief reason for having a semi-auto is because you're a lazy fker and you actually hate having to control your car. You wish some computer did it for you. You're pretending to be a car enthusiast when you're really a car hater. We all get pissed off with the clutch now and again, but when you get it just right, isn't that something to celebrate? With semi-auto you will never ever get to celebrate that moment ever again.

Plus you don't get to do that looking cool cruising thing where you put one hand on the steering wheel and one hand on the gear change.

Edited by BadBanshee on Saturday 16th March 23:21

[Hitch78]

You spent a month thinking about it and that was the best you could do?

[Gary C]

I think the least said about that previousl post, the better