Who's fault

Author
Discussion

Centurion07

10,381 posts

246 months

Sunday 15th September 2013
quotequote all
Mave said:
There are many side roads near me where you need to peep and creep to get out of them. If someone drove into me whilst overtaking before I had sufficient visibility to see up the road, I'd consider them at fault frown
How would that sound to a court though?

Solicitor: So then Mave, you admit to not being able to see clearly from your position at the junction and you pulled out of that junction onto the main road not knowing if it was clear?

Mave: It's impossible to see clearly from that junction unless you pull forward slightly...

Solicitor: So you pulled onto a road that you could not see to be clear?

Mave: I only crept forward a couple of feet...

Solicitor: So you proceeded past the Give Way markings, onto the main carriageway, without being able to see if it was clear to do so?

Mave: But it's impossible to see otherwise.

Solicitor: Who made the decision to pull onto the main carriageway without sufficent visibility as to oncoming traffic? You have already stated that you had no visibility from your stationary position and yet you STILL moved onto the main carriageway whilst having no idea if it was clear or not? Visibility from that junction may well be nil unless you pull forward, ultimately YOU made the decision to do that.


Just to be clear, I do think that if you overtake near a junction then you should be shouldering SOME of the responsibility for what happens as it's a bloody stupid thing to do, however, majority blame lies with the guy pulling out.

Edited by Centurion07 on Sunday 15th September 16:57

Mave

8,208 posts

214 months

Sunday 15th September 2013
quotequote all
Centurion07 said:
How would that sound to a court though?

Solicitor: So then Mave, you admit to not being able to see clearly from your position at the junction and you pulled out of that junction onto the main road not knowing if it was clear?

Mave: It's impossible to see clearly from that junction unless you pull forward slightly...

Solicitor: So you pulled onto a road that you could not see to be clear?

Mave: I only crept forward a couple of feet...

Solicitor: So you proceeded past the Give Way markings, onto the main carriageway, without being able to see if it was clear to do so?

Mave: But it's impossible to see otherwise.

Solicitor: Who made the decision to pull onto the main carriageway without sufficent visibility as to oncoming traffic? You have already stated that you had no visibility from your stationary position and yet you STILL moved onto the main carriageway whilst having no idea if it was clear or not? Visibility from that junction may well be nil unless you pull forward, ultimately YOU made the decision to do that.


Just to be clear, I do think that if you overtake near a junction then you should be shouldering SOME of the responsibility for what happens as it's a bloody stupid thing to do, however, majority blame lies with the guy pulling out.

Edited by Centurion07 on Sunday 15th September 16:57
Ha ha, yep, but you're taking it from the viewpoint of finding out if the person on the side road was guilty.
Surely you could play a very similar scenario involving someone overtaking near a junction without first making sure no-one was about to pull out of the junction?

Solicitor: So then Centurion, you admit to not being able to confirm that there was no-one about to pull onto the road when you started your overtake?

Centurion: It's impossible to see clearly due to trees on the side of the road

Solicitor: So you overtook by driving into a lane that you could not be sure would remain clear?

Centurion: It was only for a few seconds

Solicitor: So you proceeded to overtake, without being able to see if it was clear to do so?

Centurion: But I couldn't see the road junction

Solicitor: Who made the decision to overtake without sufficent visibility as to a potential nearby junctions? You have already stated that you had no visibility from your position and yet you STILL chose to overtake.

smile

Centurion07

10,381 posts

246 months

Sunday 15th September 2013
quotequote all
Mave said:
Ha ha, yep, but you're taking it from the viewpoint of finding out if the person on the side road was guilty.
Surely you could play a very similar scenario involving someone overtaking near a junction without first making sure no-one was about to pull out of the junction?

Solicitor: So then Centurion, you admit to not being able to confirm that there was no-one about to pull onto the road when you started your overtake?

Centurion: It's impossible to see clearly due to trees on the side of the road

Solicitor: So you overtook by driving into a lane that you could not be sure would remain clear?

Centurion: It was only for a few seconds

Solicitor: So you proceeded to overtake, without being able to see if it was clear to do so?

Centurion: But I couldn't see the road junction

Solicitor: Who made the decision to overtake without sufficent visibility as to a potential nearby junctions? You have already stated that you had no visibility from your position and yet you STILL chose to overtake.

smile
Centurion: I did, because I am already established on the carriageway, and anyone waiting to join my carriageway must cross the Give Way line. The Give Way line is exactly what it sounds like; you must wait behind the Give Way line until it is clear to proceed. It's exact meaning is given in Highway Code rule 172;

The approach to a junction may have a ‘Give Way’ sign or a triangle marked on the road. You MUST give way to traffic on the main road when emerging from a junction with broken white lines across the road.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10(1),16(1) & 25

Although some of the rules explained in The Highway Code are not backed by law, many of them, such as rule 172, are legal requirements, and if you disobey these rules you are committing a criminal offence. Such rules are identified by the use of the words ‘MUST/MUST NOT’, therefore it is irrelevant as to whether or not I could even see the junction, much less if there was a car there or not as that car is LEGALLY obliged to wait behind the line until it is clear to join the carriageway.

That is why the blame lies with the driver pulling out of the junction.

Edited by Centurion07 on Sunday 15th September 18:19