RE: Porsche 911 Turbo S: UK drive

[Walter Sobchak]

Carl_Docklands said:

I think the review touched on a good point regarding pricing. Up until now your average 458 customer is not your Turbo customer, they have different requirements out of the car.

For a used one sure the price is comparible, but I have just returned from the DIY centre in my turbo and the amount of stuff i dare fit into it and onto it would make a ferrari cry.

Also, the Turbo makes for very safe transport in all weather conditions (ground clearance pending) for that reason I don't have any hesitation in using it to transport children in.

We are going to see plenty of 3 way tests soon which will be fun to read but a well specced macca would be my choice if I could run two cars.

The thing is, I'm not knocking the 911 Turbo, I was considering buying a 996 Turbo myself recently, as you say it's one of the most practical,useable and fastest cars out there, but wow it's getting expensive.

[WCZ]

toppstuff said:

If you want to be a hit with the ladies, you need a historic / classic car.

Lambo

[Deep]

GranCab said:

Please remember the GT-R is far bigger inside and can seat 2 normal-sized people in the back whereas the 911's accommodation is just a token gesture to being a 2 + 2.

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. The GTR has far less practical room in the back than either a 997 or 991.

You can fit a couple of small kids in the back of a 911 whereas the seats in the back of a GTR are a token gesture.

[DT398]

Deep said:

GranCab said:

Please remember the GT-R is far bigger inside and can seat 2 normal-sized people in the back whereas the 911's accommodation is just a token gesture to being a 2 + 2.

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. The GTR has far less practical room in the back than either a 997 or 991.

You can fit a couple of small kids in the back of a 911 whereas the seats in the back of a GTR are a token gesture.

Finally, someone who agrees with me.

Such a shame that this thread has got so much GTR content when it seems like the 991 turbo is such a cracking car. I'm going to get one and I'm happy it's twice the price of the Nissan. The performance might be "the same" but the rest of the 911 ownership experience makes it twice the car in my opinion.

[DT398]

Deep said:

GranCab said:

Please remember the GT-R is far bigger inside and can seat 2 normal-sized people in the back whereas the 911's accommodation is just a token gesture to being a 2 + 2.

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. The GTR has far less practical room in the back than either a 997 or 991.

You can fit a couple of small kids in the back of a 911 whereas the seats in the back of a GTR are a token gesture.

Finally, someone who agrees with me.

Such a shame that this thread has got so much GTR content when it seems like the 991 turbo is such a cracking car. I'm going to get one and I'm happy it's twice the price of the Nissan. The performance might be "the same" but the rest of the 911 ownership experience makes it twice the car in my opinion.

[E60M5]

Jesus, with all of this bull***t arguing I wouldn't even want a Turbo! Everytime the three numbers 911 appear it seems like the world is going to split in half with the amount of anger and bickering between people. Why are we even bothering about talking about plastic ZR1s or hideous GT-Rs? People who buy 911 Turbos usually don't give a rats ass about those others cars because with that money they could have bought a GTR in the first place! Also, why does everything have to come down to the whole "Half the Price" argument? The 911 Turbo is 10x the GT the GT-R is and more livable everyday (if that's your thing).. Really the 911 Turbo has entered a new realm with regards its price point, so really we should be talking about some of the more expensive options for fast cars instead of the usual suspects.

There will always be a car with similar performance with much higher quality & better pedigree/history or characteristics that people are obviously willing to pay for. Likewise, there will always be a faster car no matter how silly. Look at Bugatti owners for instance. There are Golf GTis that can run 8 second 1/4 miles and Koenigseggs that are 1/3 the price, can pass a Super Sport both on track and in a straight line. Despite that people will still lust over the Bugatti (although in that case it's usually because the name gets mentioned in songs media hype etc..).

Normally at this point I'd say something along the lines of, "but at the end of the day I'd still take the Turbo", instead I'll say this. 991 GT3 CS for me!!

[E60M5]

DT398 said:

Finally, someone who agrees with me.

Such a shame that this thread has got so much GTR content when it seems like the 991 turbo is such a cracking car. I'm going to get one and I'm happy it's twice the price of the Nissan. The performance might be "the same" but the rest of the 911 ownership experience makes it twice the car in my opinion.

+1 buddy! It's all about the ownership experience, not the arguments you instigate with others (in turn making yourself look like complete cock).

[tali1]

DT398 said:

Deep said:

GranCab said:

Please remember the GT-R is far bigger inside and can seat 2 normal-sized people in the back whereas the 911's accommodation is just a token gesture to being a 2 + 2.

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. The GTR has far less practical room in the back than either a 997 or 991.

You can fit a couple of small kids in the back of a 911 whereas the seats in the back of a GTR are a token gesture.

Finally, someone who agrees with me.

Such a shame that this thread has got so much GTR content when it seems like the 991 turbo is such a cracking car. I'm going to get one and I'm happy it's twice the price of the Nissan. The performance might be "the same" but the rest of the 911 ownership experience makes it twice the car in my opinion.

Top Gear summed up the GT-R perfectly " Cheap at even twice the price"
You pays your money you take your choice..

[Mr Whippy]

E60M5 said:

Why are we even bothering about talking about plastic ZR1s or hideous GT-Rs?

Hideous GTR?

The new Turbo isn't exactly pretty any more is it.

From my perspective the 911 once occupied a fairly safe space but as it's grown in size, price and ugliness it's managed to enter a market that has it pitted against these other cars more and more in peoples minds at least.

Porsche will sell loads, that doesn't mean it's good.

Dave

[Wills2]

av185 said:

Wills2 said:

Why are people mentioning the 458? a base 458 is 180k, specced up they are 200k+ totally different price bracket.

Because a lightly used 458 at 150k and below is looking more attainable from Ferrari dealerships as the seaonal downturn approaches and Ferraris stock piling of used 458s catches up with them......

We are talking about new cars you can't start comparing the price of new and secondhand cars or you might as well say that you can get a 997 Turbo S for 75k which again is half the price of a second hand 458 but just as quick (but I wouldn't say that as it's a daft argument just like the "why get a Turbo S when the GTR is as fast debate)

[Wills2]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I think the comparison is valid as well and agree with what you've put but it's the way some posters compare the cars I.e. on price that I have an issue with.

The reason the Turbo S is 140k is Porsche can sell them for that in the same way the reason the GTR is 75k is that's what Nissan can sell them for, if they thought people would pay more they would put the price up.

[av185]

Wills2 said:

av185 said:

Wills2 said:

Why are people mentioning the 458? a base 458 is 180k, specced up they are 200k+ totally different price bracket.

Because a lightly used 458 at 150k and below is looking more attainable from Ferrari dealerships as the seaonal downturn approaches and Ferraris stock piling of used 458s catches up with them......

We are talking about new cars you can't start comparing the price of new and secondhand cars or you might as well say that you can get a 997 Turbo S for 75k which again is half the price of a second hand 458 but just as quick (but I wouldn't say that as it's a daft argument just like the "why get a Turbo S when the GTR is as fast debate)

We are not just talking about new cars at all. We are talking about the possible cars people would buy for the cost of the new turbo s. A lightly used 458 would not just be on mine but a lot of other potential purchasers shortlist.

Equally, we have also already mentioned earlier in this thread the preference of some people who would buy a used Macca over a new Turbine s........

[Mr Whippy]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

The 997 shape is very pretty. But not the turbo one.

But back to the 996 generation, all the models were pretty, especially the C4S.


It seems in the last decade grotesque over-detailing has taken hold, from Pagani with their 'bling' interiors, to Porsche with their pages of text along the back of the car... if it doesn't have 'bling' it doesn't seem it'll sell.

Some manufacturers seem to manage the modern fresh look without going silly, others don't. Porsche don't.

Dave

[Nedzilla]

For me,comparing the GTR to the 911 turbo is like comparing a pair of asda jeans to a pair of Armani jeans. They both do the same job though one will be slightly better quality,have a better name and the one you would rather be seen with though ulimately not worth the difference in price when compared side by side.

I own a GTR but if someone offered me a 911 turbo of the same age for the same money would i take it?



Of course i would.

[Deep]

Mr Whippy said:

The 997 shape is very pretty. But not the turbo one.

But back to the 996 generation, all the models were pretty, especially the C4S.


It seems in the last decade grotesque over-detailing has taken hold, from Pagani with their 'bling' interiors, to Porsche with their pages of text along the back of the car... if it doesn't have 'bling' it doesn't seem it'll sell.

Some manufacturers seem to manage the modern fresh look without going silly, others don't. Porsche don't.

Dave

That's just your opinion. To me the 996 is the most hideous incarnation of the 911 ever, you couldn't pay me to drive one.

[LuS1fer]

The 996 is easily the ugliest. The obvious shift, by Porsche, back to the more classical 911 shape and design cues, for the 997, is self-evidently an admission to that - but I do have some sympathy for the excess trinketry and badging on the 991.

Surely if BMW can offer a debadge then so can Porsche?

[Mr Whippy]

LuS1fer said:

The 996 is easily the ugliest. The obvious shift, by Porsche, back to the more classical 911 shape and design cues, for the 997, is self-evidently an admission to that - but I do have some sympathy for the excess trinketry and badging on the 991.

Surely if BMW can offer a debadge then so can Porsche?

At least the 996 tried to move things on.

Instead we are just back to the 993 type shape but big and fat like it's had a bad botox job.


Yes it's all in the eye of the beholder, but the 991 is the first Porsche 911 since forever that I think looks horrible. I liked it at first when I imagined it looking 996 sized... until I saw it in person and it just doesn't make sense.


The Boxster on the other hand looks terrific. I can only assume the demographic that is now buying the 911 likes big brash trinket laden cars. Oh it's a turbo and costs more, better stick on more letters and vents and slashes and stuff to make it 'look' more expensive...

Dave

[Wills2]

av185 said:

Wills2 said:

av185 said:

Wills2 said:

Why are people mentioning the 458? a base 458 is 180k, specced up they are 200k+ totally different price bracket.

Because a lightly used 458 at 150k and below is looking more attainable from Ferrari dealerships as the seaonal downturn approaches and Ferraris stock piling of used 458s catches up with them......

We are talking about new cars you can't start comparing the price of new and secondhand cars or you might as well say that you can get a 997 Turbo S for 75k which again is half the price of a second hand 458 but just as quick (but I wouldn't say that as it's a daft argument just like the "why get a Turbo S when the GTR is as fast debate)

We are not just talking about new cars at all. We are talking about the possible cars people would buy for the cost of the new turbo s. A lightly used 458 would not just be on mine but a lot of other potential purchasers shortlist.

Equally, we have also already mentioned earlier in this thread the preference of some people who would buy a used Macca over a new Turbine s........

It's just not a valid argument to compare the price of a new car to a secondhand one and then say the new car isn't worth it, apples and oranges.

[Deep]

Mr Whippy said:

At least the 996 tried to move things on.

Instead we are just back to the 993 type shape but big and fat like it's had a bad botox job.


Yes it's all in the eye of the beholder, but the 991 is the first Porsche 911 since forever that I think looks horrible. I liked it at first when I imagined it looking 996 sized... until I saw it in person and it just doesn't make sense.


The Boxster on the other hand looks terrific. I can only assume the demographic that is now buying the 911 likes big brash trinket laden cars. Oh it's a turbo and costs more, better stick on more letters and vents and slashes and stuff to make it 'look' more expensive...

Dave

Are you in the market for a new 991 Turbo S or car in that segment?

If not then why do you waste your time endlessly analysing it and it's shortcomings??

I'm sorry if this sounds horrid but this forum seems to be full of people who are self opinionated about cars they are never going to buy and frankly will probably never be able to afford.

It's ridiculous

[Walter Sobchak]

Mr Whippy said:

The new Turbo isn't exactly pretty any more is it.

I've never thought the 911 Turbo can be classed as a 'pretty' car,iconic-definately, it doesn't have the beauty of a Ferrari or Lamborghini, the dramatic styling of a TVR, what it does have is exceptional performance,engineering and reliability, and lets be honest it's hardly a bad looking car is it.