RE: Lotus Elise Sport 135: PH Fleet

[Robert Elise]

RobM77 said:

As said above, much of the Elise's reputation has come from owner's messing with the suspension and also running worn tyres or fitting inappropriate tyres.

Quite. I find the std AD07s great for road use. But when they get to 2mm they start telling you 'time to change'. Thing is, if you listen they do tell you, the messages are there. Although i prefer one last (dry) track day to finish them off ;-)

[Barchettaman]

Elise owners - have you seen that crash on YouTube at the 'Ring, where an Elise comes over a crest in the wet and immediately spins?

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8vaVwKo4Q9Q

What would have caused it? Just that little steering correction?

Pardon my ignorance.

[Robert Elise]

that does seem finely balanced, and a little odd. I guess it unweighted at the crest and he maybe applied power.

[Smitters]

I love that the car gets under your skin, but every time I get the nagging urge to scratch the Elise itch, what smitten owners call "foibles", or "the experience", and what logical folks call a massive pain in the arse to have to constantly maintain, modify, refit, rebuild and improve with aftermarket wares rear their ugly head.

I just find it makes me a little sad inside that something is 95% of the way to perfect, but you have to love it to keep it, because if your boggo repmobile behaved the same way mechanically, it'd be to total derision in the national motoring press.

[ReVolt]

Smitters said:

I love that the car gets under your skin, but every time I get the nagging urge to scratch the Elise itch, what smitten owners call "foibles", or "the experience", and what logical folks call a massive pain in the arse to have to constantly maintain, modify, refit, rebuild and improve with aftermarket wares rear their ugly head.

I just find it makes me a little sad inside that something is 95% of the way to perfect, but you have to love it to keep it, because if your boggo repmobile behaved the same way mechanically, it'd be to total derision in the national motoring press.

Surely that's what being an "Enthusiast" is all about!?


Great write-up OP.

[Smitters]

ReVolt said:

Surely that's what being an "Enthusiast" is all about!?


Great write-up OP.

Not for me. It just seems like a step too far when the repairs, maintenance and modification that are seemingly required are considered the norm.

[Robert Elise]

Smitters said:

I love that the car gets under your skin, but every time I get the nagging urge to scratch the Elise itch, what smitten owners call "foibles", or "the experience", and what logical folks call a massive pain in the arse to have to constantly maintain, modify, refit, rebuild and improve with aftermarket wares rear their ugly head.

I just find it makes me a little sad inside that something is 95% of the way to perfect, but you have to love it to keep it, because if your boggo repmobile behaved the same way mechanically, it'd be to total derision in the national motoring press.

okaaay, but a std hot hatch doesn't deliver the same positives, let alone a "boggo repmobile". Mumsnet?

[Smitters]

Robert Elise said:

okaaay, but a std hot hatch doesn't deliver the same positives, let alone a "boggo repmobile". Mumsnet?

Of course - I guess my position is that all the positives and I'm sure there are many (for instance, the S1 is one of THE prettiest cars in my eyes), don't outweight the reality that running one seems to involve lots of work to receive the reward.

ETA - maybe I'm just not worthy?

[hondansx]

You not only need to invest time and money into the car, but also yourself. For me, that establishes the bond and the Elise offers the challenge and depth of ability that precious few modern cars can give.

Without question, in my eyes using one as a daily is a sure-fire way to ruin the experience.

[Red Firecracker]

I can't say I've noticed a constant need for repairs or modification with mine and maintenance is basically the same as my other cars, MOT and service, parts when required (not often, to be honest). Then again, today is the first time I've driven mine for a couple of months.

[Robert Elise]

Smitters said:

Of course - I guess my position is that all the positives and I'm sure there are many (for instance, the S1 is one of THE prettiest cars in my eyes), don't outweight the reality that running one seems to involve lots of work to receive the reward.

that's a really odd position for a Caterham owner. You're used to compromise obviously and enjoy drivers cars. Toyota Elise much more reliable, not just because of Toyota but Lotus got their bits right too. If you ran an S1 now and put some £ into it it would probably be fine. As prices rise it should deserve some investment...

[Cotty]

Smitters said:

Not for me. It just seems like a step too far when the repairs, maintenance and modification that are seemingly required are considered the norm.

I have had my 2006 S2 for three years and done nothing to it other than servicing and a pair of rear tyres.

[banx22]

It's not so much that they require you to constantly fettle with them, more that you can't help yourself!

I love mine and will never, ever flog it, unless I can get an S1 Exige with a TypeR conversion - the dream!

[RobM77]

Smitters said:

ReVolt said:

Surely that's what being an "Enthusiast" is all about!?


Great write-up OP.

Not for me. It just seems like a step too far when the repairs, maintenance and modification that are seemingly required are considered the norm.

The trouble is, what car do you buy instead? I can't think of a single car that offers what the Elise (or VX220) does: beautiful steering feel, a modern super stiff tub with fully independent suspension all round tuned to perfection, just enough comfort to use everyday whilst still being good on track, light weight, good performance, good handling etc. When I bought mine I test drove all sorts of cars and nothing came close to the Elise. I suppose the closest was the Boxster, but the steering feel was nowhere near and it weighed a lot more, so was more of a GT than a traditional diminutive sports car. The MR2 was probably the closest car to the Elise that I drove, but they're not as practical due to a lack of boot.

What Lotus do is in fact so good in my opinion that even in areas of the market where there's more choice, like the Evora and its rivals, I'd take the Evora, because in my opinion its head and shoulders above the opposition in terms of how it drives. Most people don't agree with me, as the sales figures show, but certainly for the Elise it doesn't really have any competition.

To be fair though, my Elise didn't cost that much to run over the eight years I owned it. The servicing was quite pricey, but only two things ever went wrong with it, and they were fairly minor.

Edited by RobM77 on Wednesday 22 January 17:11

[RobM77]

Barchettaman said:

Elise owners - have you seen that crash on YouTube at the 'Ring, where an Elise comes over a crest in the wet and immediately spins?

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8vaVwKo4Q9Q

What would have caused it? Just that little steering correction?

Pardon my ignorance.

It's very hard to say without any in-car footage, but it would have to be something unusual for the car to go like that. Plenty of people use/used S1s as daily drivers and they don't all crash everywhere, even people with very little knowledge or ability behind the wheel. It's possible that the driver changed down without rev matching exactly at the crest, or maybe they had a slip angle at the front and backed off, or perhaps there was a patch of oil there, which are all things that would send a lot of sports cars into the barrier, not just an Elise. It's impossible to tell though from the footage alone. It's likely it was something to do with the car or driver though because it seemed that other cars hadn't crashed at that point. One thing worth saying is that race tracks are totally unlike public roads when it rains; the heavy concentration of tyre rubber put down by slicks and soft sports tyres can make them like a skating rink. This particularly applies to tracks that see heavy use by cars with slicks; Silverstone for instance is ludicrously slippery in the wet, especially after a big race meeting; and I presume the same would apply to the ring for a few weeks after a big race meeting such as the VLN.

[Fantuzzi]

RobM77 said:

Barchettaman said:

Elise owners - have you seen that crash on YouTube at the 'Ring, where an Elise comes over a crest in the wet and immediately spins?

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8vaVwKo4Q9Q

What would have caused it? Just that little steering correction?

Pardon my ignorance.

It's very hard to say without any in-car footage, but it would have to be something unusual for the car to go like that. Plenty of people use/used S1s as daily drivers and they don't all crash everywhere, even people with very little knowledge or ability behind the wheel. It's possible that the driver changed down without rev matching exactly at the crest, or maybe they had a slip angle at the front and backed off, or perhaps there was a patch of oil there, which are all things that would send a lot of sports cars into the barrier, not just an Elise. It's impossible to tell though from the footage alone. It's likely it was something to do with the car or driver though because it seemed that other cars hadn't crashed at that point. One thing worth saying is that race tracks are totally unlike public roads when it rains; the heavy concentration of tyre rubber put down by slicks and soft sports tyres can make them like a skating rink. This particularly applies to tracks that see heavy use by cars with slicks; Silverstone for instance is ludicrously slippery in the wet, especially after a big race meeting; and I presume the same would apply to the ring for a few weeks after a big race meeting such as the VLN.

I'm guessing it was a lift in the wrong place, that and slow correction, hard to see really.

[dlockhart]

A friend of mine took his elise out to a track day in the wet and was unable to use full throttle even on the long straight until the track dried. the instructor he hired said the rear suspension was incorrectly set up but only manifested itself in the wet due to there being so much grip in the dry.

[dlockhart]

Fantuzzi said:

I'm guessing it was a lift in the wrong place, that and slow correction, hard to see really.

yes that lazy spin looks like the result of incorrect weight transferance, either lift or braking over the crest, I think theres no oil there as the following cars take a similar route and the slide is too slow.

IMHO

[SidewaysSi]

Smitters said:

ReVolt said:

Surely that's what being an "Enthusiast" is all about!?


Great write-up OP.

Not for me. It just seems like a step too far when the repairs, maintenance and modification that are seemingly required are considered the norm.

Agree with what has been said by others. I have a 2000 year S1 and it has required very little above routine servicing. Whilst I have modified my car to further suit my tastes, giving it further focus, it was expenditure that I chose and certainly not necessary from a reliability/safety viewpoint.

They are very much like Caterhams in that you can start with a base car and make it anything you want. That is the appeal for many and why a lot go into long term ownership, with owners often "growing" with their car.

[RobM77]

dlockhart said:

Fantuzzi said:

I'm guessing it was a lift in the wrong place, that and slow correction, hard to see really.

yes that lazy spin looks like the result of incorrect weight transferance, either lift or braking over the crest, I think theres no oil there as the following cars take a similar route and the slide is too slow.

IMHO

It would have to be combined with steering angle though - a lift or even braking over a crest in a straight line won't spin a car unless you lock wheels. Look at the approach to Paddock Hill Bend at Brands Hatch for example - people do lap after lap there lifting and braking as they crest the rise and don't crash - to crash would need you to actually lock up (i.e. not backing off the brakes as you crest the rise, which incidentally is required at the ring in a few places, Planzgarten 1 for instance) or crest the rise with steering lock on (a common mistake at Quarry bend at Combe for example).