RE: Tuning is a waste of money: Tell Me I'm Wrong
Discussion
cvega said:
point taken!
I think there's a fine line between tuning i.e. stickers and "AERO" and actually making your car better. Some cars can be improved vastly from their original state (my last Civic Type-R - the new shape - benefited greatly from suspension mods and lsd). Some cars need no intervention (much like my cayman).
I dont think it's money wasted when done "right" and actually improving the car. When its stickers and fake wheelarches then yeah. it's a waste.
Thats the difference though. The Civic Type R is usually owned by enthusiasts and then bought by enthusiasts. The LSD is known to be one of the best mods on your civic and so will likely attract a bit more money at resale time or at least not affect the resale. Similar to fitting the Q2 to a 147 GTA.I think there's a fine line between tuning i.e. stickers and "AERO" and actually making your car better. Some cars can be improved vastly from their original state (my last Civic Type-R - the new shape - benefited greatly from suspension mods and lsd). Some cars need no intervention (much like my cayman).
I dont think it's money wasted when done "right" and actually improving the car. When its stickers and fake wheelarches then yeah. it's a waste.
Take a Golf GTI or Leon Cupra. Remapped, big exhaust etc. Much much rather buy a standard one and then map it myself if im found wanting. Guess it all depends on the car and the mod.
I can see both sides but something stuck in my mind from a few years back when I went with the GTROC to Nurburgring with a load of R32/R33/R34's. Now, granted, GTR's are heavy complex cars and, especially when tuned, benefit from various checks whilst doing multiple sessions of the 14 mile 'ring circut. The GTROC bought Abbey motorsport with them and each time a tuned GTR came off the track, people dived under bonnets, started measuring exhaust manifold temps, removed wheels and inspecting brakes etc. And then there was our mate who left his GTR at home and bought his bog standard E46 M3 CSL along. When HE had finished his laps, he brought it in, parked, walked away from it and plipped the central locking...
On day two someone joked that he hadn't had his bonnet open once despite probably doing more laps than anyone. Someone tried to suggest that he was being lax because surely he needs to check his oil. 'not really, I've checked it in the past and it doesn't burn any on track days and, besides, the dashboard will tell me if it needs any...'
On day two someone joked that he hadn't had his bonnet open once despite probably doing more laps than anyone. Someone tried to suggest that he was being lax because surely he needs to check his oil. 'not really, I've checked it in the past and it doesn't burn any on track days and, besides, the dashboard will tell me if it needs any...'
I would draw a distinction between "customising" and "engineering" led modifications.
Light engineering led modifications such as adding a filter, exhaust, diff or significantly lighter wheels is no cause for alarm and are often established accepted ways of improving a particular car.
Changing spoilers, skirts, adding tints etc. can tend to put people off as they are far more personal.
I also have a rule. I never modify limited edition/low volume performance cars. It totally misses the point.
If you want to unlock that model's potential, get a non-limited and use that as a base.
I had a couple of lovely red Evo VI TMEs - completely original. I dread to think what they are like now as even back in the early to mid noughties when I bought them, finding an original one was very difficult.
I've left the Integra well alone too. I think Honda put a bit of work into that one ;-)
Light engineering led modifications such as adding a filter, exhaust, diff or significantly lighter wheels is no cause for alarm and are often established accepted ways of improving a particular car.
Changing spoilers, skirts, adding tints etc. can tend to put people off as they are far more personal.
I also have a rule. I never modify limited edition/low volume performance cars. It totally misses the point.
If you want to unlock that model's potential, get a non-limited and use that as a base.
I had a couple of lovely red Evo VI TMEs - completely original. I dread to think what they are like now as even back in the early to mid noughties when I bought them, finding an original one was very difficult.
I've left the Integra well alone too. I think Honda put a bit of work into that one ;-)
Some 'tuning' or 'modifying' iS stereotypical, such as the KA image posted. That's what most modified or tuned cars look like utter 
and therefore a waste of money, IMO.
However, two sides to every story and all that. Some modified cars look amazing and have an improved appearance etc, like the White Z4m image posted. IMO that looks great.
However, it is always nice to see an original unmolested example of a great car, such as an R34 Skyline GTR.
and therefore a waste of money, IMO.However, two sides to every story and all that. Some modified cars look amazing and have an improved appearance etc, like the White Z4m image posted. IMO that looks great.
However, it is always nice to see an original unmolested example of a great car, such as an R34 Skyline GTR.
I would certainly agree with most of the article; that said it won't stop me from doing it because its fun 
It becomes worse when you also team it up with drag racing becuase then you have more justification to spend £££'s to find that extra 100th of a second over the 1/4 mile.
It becomes worse when you also team it up with drag racing becuase then you have more justification to spend £££'s to find that extra 100th of a second over the 1/4 mile.
Edited by PanzerCommander on Wednesday 19th March 11:15
smoking fags is a waste of money.
drinking booze is a waste of money.
going to the cinema is a wast of money.
tuning cars is a waste of money.
buying new cars is a waste of money in depreciation.
You could save all your tuning money for 5-10 years and buy that Porsche and be bored out your skull for 5-10 years.
You need to have a hobby. And if you spend money doing it and you enjoy it, it's not a waste of money.
If you spend a lot of money on tuning and then sell your car or bin it, then, it is a waste of money.
drinking booze is a waste of money.
going to the cinema is a wast of money.
tuning cars is a waste of money.
buying new cars is a waste of money in depreciation.
You could save all your tuning money for 5-10 years and buy that Porsche and be bored out your skull for 5-10 years.
You need to have a hobby. And if you spend money doing it and you enjoy it, it's not a waste of money.
If you spend a lot of money on tuning and then sell your car or bin it, then, it is a waste of money.
I've had a fair amount work done on my MK5 Golf Pirelli. If you looked at it and were less well informed regarding details you wouldn't know it. I put it in the hands of a respected expert who understood where I wanted to be with it and completely understood that I wanted OE look wherever possible. Brakes were VW but bigger, Bilstein/Eibach engineered package on suspension and only 10mm lower, Wavetrac LSD. There's more to it but you get the idea.
In the case of the MK5 it's a brilliant jack of all trades in OE spec. VW would have been foolish to focus more tightly on a minority market and they wouldn't have sold nearly as many to such a wide market.
It is easy to mess a car up granted, but with the right advice, components and expert guidance you can improve upon a vehicle. It's always been the way of it with modified cars when advertised, most want original and some will then proceed to do the work themselves. Sometimes on a tighter budget with lesser quality parts but it makes them happy, and no you wouldn't buy it once they'd finished with it!
People who view cars as a necessary evil will never get this but will spend £5k on a cruise then spend the next 12 months clearing the 0% card they put it on. Nothing wrong with that...I spent £1400 getting the LSD into my car
I'll never get it back due to the labour cost involved in removal but the point is it's a high quality component installed by an experienced professional. It has transformed the car for me but for an average owner they'll probably never know it's there or even care if had one at all.
I once owend a Lotus Elan S4 SE FHC which was completely standard. It turned out to be not as well sorted as was advertised and spent 4 weeks with Miles Wilkins on and off in the short time I owned it with a bill of approaching £2k for the dealer to pick up. When I collected for the last time the heater matrix started leaking into the car on the way home. I was offered a lighlty modified Sprint for similar money while at the dealership by a customer who had just dropped it off to be sold out of the showroom, in hindsight would have been the right place for my money to go. He'd addressed all the weaknesses of the OE design. Different scenario I know, but it's clear there are different methods and philosophies at play here.
I've bought other standard cars in the past for the reasons outlined in this article and I have sometimes realised that I have bought a car from somebody who wasn't prepared to put their hand in their pockets unless something fell off or the car stopped. There are owners of both types of vehicles who will spend all that is needed to maintain the car in OE spec and those who will spend as little as possible and also have OE spec car as far as the text in the advert is concerned. You as an individual are then presented with two apparently identical cars but with very different histories.
The average car buyer will most likely take better care of their shoes than their car.
I noticed the stereotypical photo at the head of the feature. With a common perception of modifying cars aligned with this image I'm afraid that in this country it will always be viewed this way.
In the case of the MK5 it's a brilliant jack of all trades in OE spec. VW would have been foolish to focus more tightly on a minority market and they wouldn't have sold nearly as many to such a wide market.
It is easy to mess a car up granted, but with the right advice, components and expert guidance you can improve upon a vehicle. It's always been the way of it with modified cars when advertised, most want original and some will then proceed to do the work themselves. Sometimes on a tighter budget with lesser quality parts but it makes them happy, and no you wouldn't buy it once they'd finished with it!
People who view cars as a necessary evil will never get this but will spend £5k on a cruise then spend the next 12 months clearing the 0% card they put it on. Nothing wrong with that...I spent £1400 getting the LSD into my car
I'll never get it back due to the labour cost involved in removal but the point is it's a high quality component installed by an experienced professional. It has transformed the car for me but for an average owner they'll probably never know it's there or even care if had one at all.I once owend a Lotus Elan S4 SE FHC which was completely standard. It turned out to be not as well sorted as was advertised and spent 4 weeks with Miles Wilkins on and off in the short time I owned it with a bill of approaching £2k for the dealer to pick up. When I collected for the last time the heater matrix started leaking into the car on the way home. I was offered a lighlty modified Sprint for similar money while at the dealership by a customer who had just dropped it off to be sold out of the showroom, in hindsight would have been the right place for my money to go. He'd addressed all the weaknesses of the OE design. Different scenario I know, but it's clear there are different methods and philosophies at play here.
I've bought other standard cars in the past for the reasons outlined in this article and I have sometimes realised that I have bought a car from somebody who wasn't prepared to put their hand in their pockets unless something fell off or the car stopped. There are owners of both types of vehicles who will spend all that is needed to maintain the car in OE spec and those who will spend as little as possible and also have OE spec car as far as the text in the advert is concerned. You as an individual are then presented with two apparently identical cars but with very different histories.
The average car buyer will most likely take better care of their shoes than their car.
I noticed the stereotypical photo at the head of the feature. With a common perception of modifying cars aligned with this image I'm afraid that in this country it will always be viewed this way.
Edited by ash reynolds on Wednesday 19th March 11:22
Edited by ash reynolds on Wednesday 19th March 11:22
Next weeks 'tell me I'm wrong'..
___________________________________________
Buying performance cars is a waste of money.
Don't get me wrong - buying and running performance cars can be a lot of fun. There's tremendous satisfaction in driving and owning a car that gives you joy and has performance in excess of the average.
But (and it pains me to say it), whilst performance cars can be a laugh, they're an utter disaster from a financial point of view.
FFS.
gowmonster said:
smoking fags is a waste of money.
drinking booze is a waste of money.
going to the cinema is a wast of money.
tuning cars is a waste of money.
buying new cars is a waste of money in depreciation.
You could save all your tuning money for 5-10 years and buy that Porsche and be bored out your skull for 5-10 years.
You need to have a hobby. And if you spend money doing it and you enjoy it, it's not a waste of money.
If you spend a lot of money on tuning and then sell your car or bin it, then, it is a waste of money.
Nail....headdrinking booze is a waste of money.
going to the cinema is a wast of money.
tuning cars is a waste of money.
buying new cars is a waste of money in depreciation.
You could save all your tuning money for 5-10 years and buy that Porsche and be bored out your skull for 5-10 years.
You need to have a hobby. And if you spend money doing it and you enjoy it, it's not a waste of money.
If you spend a lot of money on tuning and then sell your car or bin it, then, it is a waste of money.
monthefish said:
Next weeks 'tell me I'm wrong'..
___________________________________________
Buying performance cars is a waste of money.
Don't get me wrong - buying and running performance cars can be a lot of fun. There's tremendous satisfaction in driving and owning a car that gives you joy and has performance in excess of the average.
But (and it pains me to say it), whilst performance cars can be a laugh, they're an utter disaster from a financial point of view.
FFS.
gowmonster said:
smoking fags is a waste of money.
drinking booze is a waste of money.
going to the cinema is a wast of money.
tuning cars is a waste of money.
buying new cars is a waste of money in depreciation.
You missed out drugs and hookers.drinking booze is a waste of money.
going to the cinema is a wast of money.
tuning cars is a waste of money.
buying new cars is a waste of money in depreciation.
I've spent a couple of thousand modifying my car, but its made me keep it for five years. If I hadn't modified it I probably would have got bored sooner and sold it, losing a similar amount of money in the buying/selling car merry go round.
I do think its mad when someone buys a car, spends thousands modifying it, then sells it a year later because they are bored with it.
Quiller said:
Here's a revelation that most tuners simply can't accept: tuning doesn't actually improve many cars. Manufacturers spend millions getting their engineering right, and fiddling about with it can ruin everything.
Wrong (IMO)Most cars and facets of said cars, are designed to appeal to wide spectrum of people, and as such, they are built to a compromise.
For some, they don't need or want those compromises, and hence, modify their cars to better suit their tastes.
turboslippers said:
and bought his bog standard E46 M3 CSL along. When HE had finished his laps, he brought it in, parked, walked away from it and plipped the central locking...
Good for him. Doesn't really mean anything though does it.Modified cars do not have to be a headache if done properly. The problem in my experience is that a lot of tuners (even respected ones) map for limited life of components or don't understand all of the ramifications of what they do.
There are plenty of parts out there that aren't break the bank expensive which will more than put up with substantial abuse, but when it comes down to it, a lot of problems people with very fettled cars experience are due to the person wielding the laptop.
is1 said:
I would draw a distinction between "customising" and "engineering" led modifications
This.Replacing the scabby Lucas ECU on my Chimaera with a modern one, including removing the distributor and air-flow meter has had no downside whatever.
But most of the people I know who've gone on to supercharge them have had issues.
And my mate with the 600bhp Cossie just spends his whole time chasing failures round the drivetrain.
Overall, I'm inclined to agree with the original proposition; generally speaking "tuning" is a waste of money. Not just because the money is gone, but because you've spoiled the car.
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