RE: VW Golf GTE: Driven (briefly)
Discussion
DeanHelix said:
Domf said:
Now have VW paid GM some money for the GTE moniker?, I'm old enough to remember that when Opel/Vauxhall bought out the Manta and Astra sports versions in the UK they had to be called GTE because VW had copyright on GTI, in Germany Opels were known as GSI. Therefore 30+ years on are VW going to have to rename the product if it reaches the UK e.g. GTB(battery), no Ferrari might have a claim on that 308GTB. GT?
It's a good point, but you mean trademark, not copyright. There's a difference. But then VW don't even have monopoly over "GTi", so not overly sure GM own "GTE" from over 20 years ago
http://www.kentonline.co.uk/kent/news/volkswagen-l...
crosseyedlion said:
Just found out, apparently the 188mpg figure is from using a full battery then 16 miles of hyrid/engine power in addition, which works out to be around 63mpg if not running on battery only. Which isn't much different to the GTD is it? Bit of a scam.
Exactly, these hybrid figures are a load of old b
ks. They never take into account the battery charge so the figures sound stunning but in fact overall efficiency is actually little better. We need a proper standard to abide by so that the new MPg figures for cars like this take the battery charge into account.McWigglebum4th said:
Major T said:
McWigglebum4th said:
A little nugget to think about
The electricty needed to produce 1 gallon of petrol will let a pure electric car drive about 23 miles
I thought about it. And I don't see how you generate petrol using electricity.The electricty needed to produce 1 gallon of petrol will let a pure electric car drive about 23 miles
I forgot about magic petrol
Magic petrol is the petrol that magically appears in a cars petrol tank when someone is banging on about the enviromental impact of anything that uses electricty or batteries
ecs0set said:
McWigglebum4th said:
Ah magic petrol
I forgot about magic petrol
Magic petrol is the petrol that magically appears in a cars petrol tank when someone is banging on about the enviromental impact of anything that uses electricty or batteries
Would it be an idea to distinguish between the environmental impact for the fuel (i.e. extracting, refining and burning petrol vs generating and consuming electricity) and the environmental impact for creating the car to use it (i.e. manufacture of diesel car vs manufacture of hybrid with electric motors, battery packs, etc)? Because as I see it, hybrid/electric cars win on the former but lose on the latter.I forgot about magic petrol
Magic petrol is the petrol that magically appears in a cars petrol tank when someone is banging on about the enviromental impact of anything that uses electricty or batteries
Unless I am mistaken, you are combining both aspects in your point?
I would try out one of these GTE's if I had any interest in driving a VW. But I don't. I did quite like the Insight I had on loan a while back, it felt surprisingly nimble considering the weight, but it didn't have any boot space to speak of, probably both down to the batteries being in the back = great weight distribution but shocking storage.
McWigglebum4th said:
Nobody
But it is very common to compare the CO2 from building a EV and producing the electricty to power an EV to a ICE which has magic petrol
Is there a website where thickos like me can understand how it all works with electricity and petrol and everythingBut it is very common to compare the CO2 from building a EV and producing the electricty to power an EV to a ICE which has magic petrol
I'd love someone to explain what the benefits are when ALL parameters are taken into account, like cost and enviro impact of the electricity (the one at night off the grid) and the enviro impact of making the batteries and the added hardware. I am sure there are some benefits but because the ridiculous mpg and emission figures are effectively a deception, it puts me off even trying to understand (wrongly I am sure).
annodomini2 said:
PunterCam said:
My GCSE physics keeps on telling me that the car has to use energy to make energy for the battery, and that converting energy costs energy - it can't be 100% efficient. Fair enough, energy wiped away during deceleration is free energy, but more energy is spent increasing speed than decreasing speed...
So the battery will go flat, and you'll end up with a car that's less efficient than a 1.4tsi golf surely? Unless you plug it in. Or the car is designed to use a large portion of its petrol power to charge the battery, in which case it surely defeats the point (from an efficiency standpoint at least... Huge, instant torque for a sports car (P1) might be more desirable than extra top end power, and so the conversion to electricity might be justified in that scenario...)
Perhaps that fact that I'm using GCSE physics explains my lack of understanding/belief, but I keep thinking that a car that claims 188mpg should actually do just that. If you're having to plug it in to get that "free" energy, then the whole exercise becomes pointless in my opinion. You're just lugging around 200kgs, and then throwing away energy to create electricity... Surely this car is less energy efficient than a regular petrol car?
As JonnyVTEC said it's plugin, but also you will have some of the braking done by the electric motor and recharge the battery that way.So the battery will go flat, and you'll end up with a car that's less efficient than a 1.4tsi golf surely? Unless you plug it in. Or the car is designed to use a large portion of its petrol power to charge the battery, in which case it surely defeats the point (from an efficiency standpoint at least... Huge, instant torque for a sports car (P1) might be more desirable than extra top end power, and so the conversion to electricity might be justified in that scenario...)
Perhaps that fact that I'm using GCSE physics explains my lack of understanding/belief, but I keep thinking that a car that claims 188mpg should actually do just that. If you're having to plug it in to get that "free" energy, then the whole exercise becomes pointless in my opinion. You're just lugging around 200kgs, and then throwing away energy to create electricity... Surely this car is less energy efficient than a regular petrol car?
Not 100% recovery as you state, but some energy that would normally be converted to heat in the brakes.
In reality what it surely does is 380 miles at 40mpg, and 20 miles for free? If you plug it in. And if you don't, what happens? I'm still seriously confused. Where is the energy for the batteries coming from? If you don't plug it in, are these cars not less efficient than a regular car? Will you not in fact have only 100bhp most of the time in that scenario?
PunterCam said:
I've always said that I'd be delighted to have an electric car for my day to day travel, but I'm struggling to see the point in these to be honest. It's just a sort of half-way, half arsed, "thing". You can plug it in for a bit, and it uses some electricity before moving to petrol. Yippee.
If you have a relatively short commute then you can do the bulk of your driving on the battery but you also have an engine that can be used should you need to do a long run. It eliminates the "i'd need a second car for long runs" problem that fully electric cars suffer from. So I could get the 188 mpg on my drive too and from work (7.5 miles each way) but then if I needed to go further I can use the engine like a conventional car. The majority of my trips fall within or very close to the 30 mile range on batteries.
nickfrog said:
Is there a website where thickos like me can understand how it all works with electricity and petrol and everything
I'd love someone to explain what the benefits are when ALL parameters are taken into account, like cost and enviro impact of the electricity (the one at night off the grid) and the enviro impact of making the batteries and the added hardware. I am sure there are some benefits but because the ridiculous mpg and emission figures are effectively a deception, it puts me off even trying to understand (wrongly I am sure).
Try this:- http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/sustainable/boo... Without doubt the most down to earth discussion of energy I have come acrossI'd love someone to explain what the benefits are when ALL parameters are taken into account, like cost and enviro impact of the electricity (the one at night off the grid) and the enviro impact of making the batteries and the added hardware. I am sure there are some benefits but because the ridiculous mpg and emission figures are effectively a deception, it puts me off even trying to understand (wrongly I am sure).
V8A*ndy said:
I have a concern about these new breed of hybrids that the engine suddenly kicks in when you need the power.
Have engineers suddenly solved the problem of racing a cold engine or does the engine run from time to time like a sort of standby mode?
When you start mine cold the engine always runs. It will run for about 2 minutes at current temps first thing in the morning.Have engineers suddenly solved the problem of racing a cold engine or does the engine run from time to time like a sort of standby mode?
JonnyVTEC said:
Matthew Clarke said:
Now could this battery pack be fitted to my 335i please (with a few carbon/grp panels to offset the extra weight)
BMW do a halfway house...http://www.bmw.com/com/en/active_hybrid/overview.h...
ATM said:
Yes and I have one so dont call it a halfway house please. Ok it doesn't plug in and there isnt any carbon or grp. It weighs 30kg more than a 335d xDrive. Its basically a 335i with an added 59bhp electric motor and a big ass battery.
It's halfway a between a 335i and what the Golf is offering with EV drive was my point! Ie. halfway to getting that battery pack in.... Jeez!It's a superb car in my boot, even more grunt!
Edited by JonnyVTEC on Monday 31st March 18:04
crosseyedlion said:
ATM said:
Yes and I have one so dont call it a halfway house please. Ok it doesn't plug in and there isnt any carbon or grp. It weighs 30kg more than a 335d xDrive. Its basically a 335i with an added 59bhp electric motor and a big ass battery.
Interesting! Whats it like on fuel?http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Zoon said:
McWigglebum4th said:
A little nugget to think about
The electricty needed to produce 1 gallon of petrol will let a pure electric car drive about 23 miles
So technically it's environmentally more beneficial to run a petrol car that can do 60mpg than charge an electric car for 23 miles.The electricty needed to produce 1 gallon of petrol will let a pure electric car drive about 23 miles
Take a petrol car and pump ten gallons into its fuel tank
Drive it exactly zero miles
it has used the same energy and emitted the same Co2 as an electric car doing 230 miles and it hasn't moved off the petrol station forecourt
V8A*ndy said:
I have a concern about these new breed of hybrids that the engine suddenly kicks in when you need the power.
Have engineers suddenly solved the problem of racing a cold engine or does the engine run from time to time like a sort of standby mode?
I shared your concerns but the engineers know what they are doing and it must be tested thoroughly. From wikipedia:Have engineers suddenly solved the problem of racing a cold engine or does the engine run from time to time like a sort of standby mode?
'Some cars, such as the second generation Toyota Prius, pump hot coolant from the cooling system into a 3 litre insulated thermos-style reservoir at shutdown, where it stays warm for up to 3 days.'
So it's like many BMWs have had standard or as an option for a long time the engine is never really cold when used regularly and if it isn't the engine runs for a while to get it up to temperature when the car is started.
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