Flemke - Is this your McLaren? (Vol 5)

Flemke - Is this your McLaren? (Vol 5)

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Discussion

trackdemon

10,375 posts

210 months

Friday 10th January
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F1natic said:
Odd question for the day - I am very curious about the passenger seating position and long distance comfort in the F1. If the driver is "making progress" how do passengers typically brace themselves for corners and braking? Do they raise their feet so that their toes are above the carbon fibre inner chassis spars and push themselves back into the seat thereby wedging themselves securely?

In those cases where the trip is more relaxed what distance can passengers handle typically before a rest stop and stretch is required?

I am not surprised that every video I have seen from the passengers viewpoint typically is out the front windshield or back at their grinning faces.
Can't vouch for all of your question, but having been lucky enough to spend a couple of hours in the right hand seat of an F1, including some cross country stuff, it's quite compact in there so you're fairly wedged in anyway. IIRC the seats aren't massively bolstered but you have the drivers seat to your left front and the door aperture wraps over your head on the right so you never feel like your having to brace against the bulkhead. Then the engine gets going, the induction noise smashes into your ears, and you forget EVERYTHING. I suspect sitting there for 8hrs would be just fine

bolidemichael

1,712 posts

150 months

Friday 10th January
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trackdemon said:
Then the engine gets going, the induction noise smashes into your ears, and you forget EVERYTHING. I suspect sitting there for 8hrs would be just fine
hehe

flemke

22,212 posts

186 months

Friday 10th January
quotequote all
F1natic said:
Odd question for the day - I am very curious about the passenger seating position and long distance comfort in the F1. If the driver is "making progress" how do passengers typically brace themselves for corners and braking? Do they raise their feet so that their toes are above the carbon fibre inner chassis spars and push themselves back into the seat thereby wedging themselves securely?

In those cases where the trip is more relaxed what distance can passengers handle typically before a rest stop and stretch is required?

I am not surprised that every video I have seen from the passengers viewpoint typically is out the front windshield or back at their grinning faces.
The most time I have spent in the car in one day was about 14 hours (IIRC), about evenly split between driving and passenger.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean about raising one's feet. As has been said, the tight point for a passenger (at least for one who is not fat) is at the shoulders - you're pretty well squeezed in there, with little scope for being thrown around. This is in the context of a road car on road tyres being driven on public roads. As a passenger, after a couple of hours you'd probably like a break in order to climb out and stretch. As a driver, you can probably go through a full tank of fuel before you reach that point. With its open shoulders, the driver's seat is much more comfortable than the passengers' seats are.

F1natic

52 posts

5 months

Saturday 11th January
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Thank you for the insight. The reference to the foot position in my question is related to the passenger seats having no fore-aft adjustment. To my eye the foot panel is intentionally large and inclined to allow those with longer legs to position their feet up higher and therefore have a longer leg reach. My expectation in high corner force situations is that pushing against the foot panel pushes the passenger back firmly into the seat and increases their feeling of stability, but as pointed out not something that is foremost in their minds with the induction roar next to their ears. Fortunate individuals!

flemke

22,212 posts

186 months

Saturday 11th January
quotequote all
F1natic said:
Thank you for the insight. The reference to the foot position in my question is related to the passenger seats having no fore-aft adjustment. To my eye the foot panel is intentionally large and inclined to allow those with longer legs to position their feet up higher and therefore have a longer leg reach. My expectation in high corner force situations is that pushing against the foot panel pushes the passenger back firmly into the seat and increases their feeling of stability, but as pointed out not something that is foremost in their minds with the induction roar next to their ears. Fortunate individuals!
In the area extending forward of the passenger seats, the floor is first flat but then ramps up at an angle (being the obverse of the front wheel-wells). The angle accommodates different length legs. It's never been a problem for me or, as far as I know, the people I might normally take out for a ride.


S1KRR

11,096 posts

161 months

Saturday 11th January
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flemke said:
... As has been said, the tight point for a passenger (at least for one who is not fat) is at the shoulders - you're pretty well squeezed in there, with little scope for being thrown around.





With its open shoulders, the driver's seat is much more comfortable than the passengers' seats are.
You've never sought to have this changed? If only for the comfort of close family/friends. Or do you so infrequently have passengers along that it's irrelevant?

flemke

22,212 posts

186 months

Saturday 11th January
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S1KRR said:
flemke said:
... As has been said, the tight point for a passenger (at least for one who is not fat) is at the shoulders - you're pretty well squeezed in there, with little scope for being thrown around.





With its open shoulders, the driver's seat is much more comfortable than the passengers' seats are.
You've never sought to have this changed? If only for the comfort of close family/friends. Or do you so infrequently have passengers along that it's irrelevant?
If you mean the width for the passengers' shoulders, on the outside is the door and on the inside is the fuel tank. They define the outer limits.
You can open up the space by stripping out the padding, as was done in the LM, but that has implications for noise and general comfort. (The increase in noise is irrelevant in the LM, as everything gets drowned out by the straight-cut gears anyhow.)
I'd rather keep it as is and ask my passengers to grin and bear it. So far I have had few complaints.

LM:


F1natic

52 posts

5 months

Sunday 12th January
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flemke said:
The angle accommodates different length legs.
Thank you for confirming this detail Flemke.

I have noted that some interior shots have carpet that wraps from the foot panel around the tub spars and down onto the side of the drivers well (as per the photo above), whereas others have the carbon spars exposed. Was there a factory option for this detail?

Also thank you for giving so much time and care to this thread and keeping it alive with more detail than any other source I have found. I truly appreciate your dedication to answer the range of questions you get asked, even the ones on footwell carpet!

thegreenhell

6,383 posts

168 months

Sunday 12th January
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flemke said:
Patrick Bateman said:
This may well have been asked before but have you ever considered lending your car to Harry Metcalfe for the day...?

A Harry's Garage on the McLaren F1 would be pinnacle.
...
I don't know what this "Harry's Garage" thing is. I suppose I should check it out.
Almost on cue, Harry publishes a review of the Carrera GT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWbjvcDML7A

TyrannosauRoss Lex

23,901 posts

161 months

Sunday 12th January
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
flemke said:
Patrick Bateman said:
This may well have been asked before but have you ever considered lending your car to Harry Metcalfe for the day...?

A Harry's Garage on the McLaren F1 would be pinnacle.
...
I don't know what this "Harry's Garage" thing is. I suppose I should check it out.
Almost on cue, Harry publishes a review of the Carrera GT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWbjvcDML7A
It'd be great for him to do a McLaren F1 one, wouldn't it winkhehe

ArgonautX

5 posts

Monday 13th January
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New member here, read the whole thread, awesome to share experience with such an iconic car.

Just watched Harry's garage review on the Carrera GT. Harry weighed it at 1386 kg "wet", which means it's only about 100 kg heavier than a F1, fine result for a bigger, newer car. Shame, IMHO, that they did not use the evolution of that V10 in the 918 - the RS Spyder based V8 if fine, but nowhere near as charismatic as the V10.

Patrick Bateman

10,964 posts

123 months

Monday 13th January
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More like around 200kg, assuming the quoted F1 weight is also 'wet'.

ArgonautX

5 posts

Monday 13th January
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Patrick Bateman said:
More like around 200kg, assuming the quoted F1 weight is also 'wet'.
According to Flemke himself, F1 weighs in around 1250-1280 kg, depending on equipment, wet on the road. So it's closer to around 100 kg weight difference.

waremark

2,572 posts

162 months

Monday 13th January
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ArgonautX said:
New member here, read the whole thread, awesome to share experience with such an iconic car.

Just watched Harry's garage review on the Carrera GT. Harry weighed it at 1386 kg "wet", which means it's only about 100 kg heavier than a F1, fine result for a bigger, newer car. Shame, IMHO, that they did not use the evolution of that V10 in the 918 - the RS Spyder based V8 if fine, but nowhere near as charismatic as the V10.
Many people have found the 918 to be a less involving and rewarding drive that the CGT - even if, and partly because it is much easier. In spite of that I seem to remember that Flemke commented very favourably on the 918, compared to the P1 which he had at the time.

I have only had a brief drive in a 918, but I found the experience of going through a village silently on electricity, and then hearing the wonderful exhaust note from the V8 barking into life from the exposed exhausts just behind your head exhilarating.

I look forward to watching Harry's CGT video.

isaldiri

5,083 posts

117 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
ArgonautX said:
Patrick Bateman said:
More like around 200kg, assuming the quoted F1 weight is also 'wet'.
According to Flemke himself, F1 weighs in around 1250-1280 kg, depending on equipment, wet on the road. So it's closer to around 100 kg weight difference.
The car in Metcalfe's video had to have fumes in the tank (90litres) as fully fuelled the cgt would be a bit over 1450kg in most customer cars.

ArgonautX

5 posts

Monday 13th January
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isaldiri said:
The car in Metcalfe's video had to have fumes in the tank (90litres) as fully fuelled the cgt would be a bit over 1450kg in most customer cars.
I had a look at the video again, and you're right. At some point there is a shot of the dash and the petrol gauge is in the lower half

flemke

22,212 posts

186 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
F1natic said:
flemke said:
The angle accommodates different length legs.
Thank you for confirming this detail Flemke.

I have noted that some interior shots have carpet that wraps from the foot panel around the tub spars and down onto the side of the drivers well (as per the photo above), whereas others have the carbon spars exposed. Was there a factory option for this detail?

Also thank you for giving so much time and care to this thread and keeping it alive with more detail than any other source I have found. I truly appreciate your dedication to answer the range of questions you get asked, even the ones on footwell carpet!
When I got my car it had the wrap-over carpet, which I had them change for three separate floor mats with no wrap-over at the fronts of the spars. It's not something that I have studied in other F1s, but I thought the wrap-over was standard and, looking at various images on Google, pretty much all the standard cars except mine have it.

flemke

22,212 posts

186 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
ArgonautX said:
isaldiri said:
The car in Metcalfe's video had to have fumes in the tank (90litres) as fully fuelled the cgt would be a bit over 1450kg in most customer cars.
I had a look at the video again, and you're right. At some point there is a shot of the dash and the petrol gauge is in the lower half
The car manufacturers never tell us whether they weigh the reference car with or without fire extinguisher, warning triangle, spare tools, puncture sealant, floor mats, sound system (if only optional). There is a specification for "fuel level", but that varies from one standard of kerb weight to another and is therefore misleading. One could argue that dry weight is a better reference than kerb weight, because at least we know that dry weight includes nothing.
The original, official numbers for F1s were dry weights. The guys at MSO tell me that, in practice with an almost full tank plus all the above paraphernalia, a normal F1 weighs between 1250 and 1280. That has been my experience too.
As for CGT, although mine was corner-weighted I don't have the numbers to hand. In 2004 Car & Driver weighed one and came up with 1430, which seems about right.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15132548/por...

ArgonautX

5 posts

Monday 13th January
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flemke said:
The car manufacturers never tell us whether they weigh the reference car with or without fire extinguisher, warning triangle, spare tools, puncture sealant, floor mats, sound system (if only optional). There is a specification for "fuel level", but that varies from one standard of kerb weight to another and is therefore misleading. One could argue that dry weight is a better reference than kerb weight, because at least we know that dry weight includes nothing.
The original, official numbers for F1s were dry weights. The guys at MSO tell me that, in practice with an almost full tank plus all the above paraphernalia, a normal F1 weighs between 1250 and 1280. That has been my experience too.
As for CGT, although mine was corner-weighted I don't have the numbers to hand. In 2004 Car & Driver weighed one and came up with 1430, which seems about right.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15132548/por...
Have you ever driven a Lamborghini Sesto Elemento? I vaguely remember they supposedly made 20 of them, but I never saw one in RL. Supposedly 999 kg, I'm guessing dry.

Sway

13,192 posts

143 months

Monday 13th January
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ArgonautX said:
Have you ever driven a Lamborghini Sesto Elemento? I vaguely remember they supposedly made 20 of them, but I never saw one in RL. Supposedly 999 kg, I'm guessing dry.
I'd take any numbers like that from Lamborghini with an immense pinch of salt - especially when referring to a car made in such small numbers...