Why is lorry overtaking not banned?

[Solocle]

2 lanes of lorries is bad enough.
Why, just why!?

[DonkeyApple]

Solocle said:

2 lanes of lorries is bad enough.
Why, just why!?

That is shocking. You can really see why a mentally deficient bloke would lose his st at seeing two similar shaped objects next to each other.

[Solocle]

DonkeyApple said:

That is shocking. You can really see why a mentally deficient bloke would lose his st at seeing two similar shaped objects next to each other.

What is it with intellectual insults? You would come off worst.
Notice the lane to the left. 3 out of 4 lanes being used for elephant racing.

[grumpy52]

heebeegeetee said:

oldnbold said:

As others have said, its works very well in Germany, but it also applies to cars towing trailers, including caravans. I also seem to remember that it only applies on certain streaches and at certain times. But then again lane disipline in Germany is so much better then the UK.

I think it should be applied on all 2 lane roads in the UK from 06.00 - 19.00.

There are (effectively) no British drivers in Germany. If there were, they'd be bumbling along at much lower speeds as do over here.

I'm sure we're all aware of how on the whole traffic flows so much better in Europe than it does here, and that's because people get much more of a move on.

It's also down to the congestion, which brings me to another point: Anybody who puts a car on the road in the daytime, especially on a motorway, especially in the working week, is part of a huge problem. The vast majority of these journeys by car is so that people can go and talk to each other. Well, you don't need a car to do that.
The numbers of hgvs has not changed since the 1950s but cars have gone from a few million to 28 million and road building has not kept up (and indeed in itself creates traffic)

The is only one vehicle causing the congestion out there, and that is the motor car, driven by us. It is absolutely ludicrous to suggest anything else has any meaningful affect on traffic flow. You might lose seconds or even the odd minute due to a problem here or there per year, but we all cost ourselves hours a week out of our lifetimes.

I do firmly believe that if lorry overtaking was banned the m'ways would grind to a halt, especially at peak times (which in fairness they do already).

Btw, the overtaking has got virtually nothing to do with saving time, and that opinion just shows the lack of understanding of the issue imo. It is about keeping space, vision and safety between vehicles.

This is the most reasoned post I have ever seen on the HGV v CAR debate.

[grumpy52]

Solocle said:

DonkeyApple said:

That is shocking. You can really see why a mentally deficient bloke would lose his st at seeing two similar shaped objects next to each other.

What is it with intellectual insults? You would come off worst.
Notice the lane to the left. 3 out of 4 lanes being used for elephant racing.

Most of the time the 1st lane of 4 will have a little eco car in it bimbling along at 50 mph .

[jmorgan]

grumpy52 said:

Solocle said:

DonkeyApple said:

That is shocking. You can really see why a mentally deficient bloke would lose his st at seeing two similar shaped objects next to each other.

What is it with intellectual insults? You would come off worst.
Notice the lane to the left. 3 out of 4 lanes being used for elephant racing.

Most of the time the 1st lane of 4 will have a little eco car in it bimbling along at 50 mph .

And the other two.

[Solocle]

jmorgan said:

grumpy52 said:

Solocle said:

DonkeyApple said:

That is shocking. You can really see why a mentally deficient bloke would lose his st at seeing two similar shaped objects next to each other.

What is it with intellectual insults? You would come off worst.
Notice the lane to the left. 3 out of 4 lanes being used for elephant racing.

Most of the time the 1st lane of 4 will have a little eco car in it bimbling along at 50 mph .

And the other two.

Yep, saw that on the journey. Really the minimum speed limit should be "don't force HGVs to overtake you". And, on a 4 lane motorway, perhaps HGVs can get two lanes to play with. The problem is, reducing 70 mph traffic to 1 lane in dense flowing traffic invariably causes congestion.

[DonkeyApple]

Solocle said:

DonkeyApple said:

That is shocking. You can really see why a mentally deficient bloke would lose his st at seeing two similar shaped objects next to each other.

What is it with intellectual insults? You would come off worst.
Notice the lane to the left. 3 out of 4 lanes being used for elephant racing.

I suspect your lack of understanding of the inferences suggest that you are incorrect in the outcome of your challenge. Lost before you started I'm afraid.

So why don't you explain clearly for the class why a man driving a car somewhere would become emotionally charged due to two lorries being next to each other in your picture. And why this is normal behaviour from a well adjusted individual?

You could also revert to the article published earlier in the thread that claimed the risk from two lorries overtaking stemmed from car drivers who subsequently were involved in 'incidents' after passing.

And why don't we contemplate just for a moment what it is that is wrong with you, at a mental level, that makes you upset to see two lorries passing. What is it about being held up momentarily that causes you distress? Why is this important to you? What is your underlying problem that causes you to not be able to cope rationally with such a minor and irrelevant situation?

Is it that you think you are superior to the lorry drivers and that they shouldn't dare to impede your progress for a tiny moment in time or is it that you cannot work out how to pass them using the outer lane? What is it about you that causes you this distress?

[gavsdavs]

heebeegeetee said:

The numbers of hgvs has not changed since the 1950s

......citation needed.

[Solocle]

DonkeyApple said:

I suspect your lack of understanding of the inferences suggest that you are incorrect in the outcome of your challenge. Lost before you started I'm afraid.

So why don't you explain clearly for the class why a man driving a car somewhere would become emotionally charged due to two lorries being next to each other in your picture. And why this is normal behaviour from a well adjusted individual?

You could also revert to the article published earlier in the thread that claimed the risk from two lorries overtaking stemmed from car drivers who subsequently were involved in 'incidents' after passing.

And why don't we contemplate just for a moment what it is that is wrong with you, at a mental level, that makes you upset to see two lorries passing. What is it about being held up momentarily that causes you distress? Why is this important to you? What is your underlying problem that causes you to not be able to cope rationally with such a minor and irrelevant situation?

Is it that you think you are superior to the lorry drivers and that they shouldn't dare to impede your progress for a tiny moment in time or is it that you cannot work out how to pass them using the outer lane? What is it about you that causes you this distress?

My problem is simple. 3 lanes of 4 were reduced from 70 mph to 50 mph. This was 7 am on the M25. Traffic was already dense. The result of the manoeuvre is that either 3 lanes brake to 50 mph, or try to merge into one, causing significant braking.
Result: chain reaction of cars braking sharper and sharper until the motorway comes to a grinding halt.
Granted, 99 times out of 100, this doesn't reach critical mass. But when it does, it can cause hour long delays for many thousands of people.
Is your 1 mph difference worth that?

P.S as you insist on the intellectual challenge, this situation is similar to congestion in water flows - a matter of fluid dynamics. As I have a place to read Mathematics and Computer Science at Oxford University, I expect I have a better understanding of fluid dynamics than you do.

Edited by Solocle on Thursday 24th August 09:21

[gazzarose]

A ban on over taking would cause alot more problems than it would some if it was in use over the entire network. Imagine a 50mph tesco lorry leaving London heading West on the M4 to Pembroke. Every truck with a equal or higher speed limiter would bunch up behind it, eventually you would have dozens of lorries in one block, which would then stop Mr fast lane Audi on the motorway in the first place. No imagine that the lead lorry wasn't a relatively light weight tesco lorry stuck at 50, but a heavier lorry that slows to 40 at every hill. The caos would be incredible. Ultimately if we want fresh food, ipads or even our new cars they need to come by lorry, and mostly during the day in needs all shops, warehouses and dealerships are open at night ready to receive. Lorries are here to stay, and if the motorways want to function at all then they need to be able to overtake. I do think that, certainly in the UK where the Hgv limit is 60mpg, that differential could be used for a temporary limit raising button that, like keys, can only be used occasionally. It's not going to happen though, just way to complicated to implement unless it was fitted to new trucks.

[Solocle]

gazzarose said:

A ban on over taking would cause alot more problems than it would some if it was in use over the entire network. Imagine a 50mph tesco lorry leaving London heading West on the M4 to Pembroke. Every truck with a equal or higher speed limiter would bunch up behind it, eventually you would have dozens of lorries in one block, which would then stop Mr fast lane Audi on the motorway in the first place. No imagine that the lead lorry wasn't a relatively light weight tesco lorry stuck at 50, but a heavier lorry that slows to 40 at every hill. The caos would be incredible. Ultimately if we want fresh food, ipads or even our new cars they need to come by lorry, and mostly during the day in needs all shops, warehouses and dealerships are open at night ready to receive. Lorries are here to stay, and if the motorways want to function at all then they need to be able to overtake. I do think that, certainly in the UK where the Hgv limit is 60mpg, that differential could be used for a temporary limit raising button that, like keys, can only be used occasionally. It's not going to happen though, just way to complicated to implement unless it was fitted to new trucks.

Admittedly, an outright ban would be problematic. So is the current situation. Answer: driverless lorries

[Vipers]

Solocle said:

DonkeyApple said:

That is shocking. You can really see why a mentally deficient bloke would lose his st at seeing two similar shaped objects next to each other.

What is it with intellectual insults? You would come off worst.
Notice the lane to the left. 3 out of 4 lanes being used for elephant racing.

Roads are for everyone, you expect food on the shelves don't you, why not just chill and take it easy.

[Solocle]

Vipers said:

Roads are for everyone, you expect food on the shelves don't you, why not just chill and take it easy.

Roads are for everyone. I just think that for the difference it makes to you guys, half the overtakes I see are completely pointless when, in dense traffic, it poses a significant congestion risk.

If a ban on overtaking something going >48mph were in place for lorries at peak times (and restrictions on how close you can bunch, think of the slip traffic), you just might have the roads flowing more freely and you actually reach your destination faster.

Edited by Solocle on Thursday 24th August 09:33

[John145]

In this country we bemoan our lack of efficiency. The road network is a serious issue in this.

On a weekly basis I drive Cambs to Crewe. M11, A14, M6, M6 Toll, M6.

Elephant racing is not conducted by a 50mph limited lorry and a 60mph limited lorry.

It's the 56.4mph and 56.5mph lorries. Overtakes regularly taking 2 minutes.

The practical effect on a 150 mile journey? 30-45 minute delay. I stick the cruise control on at an indicated 77mph for the whole journey, regardless of time of day. When I leave at 5am the journey takes 2 hours 30minutes. When I leave 1 hour later, it takes 3 hours 15 minutes. The difference? The number of times I'm held up by lorries overtaking.

When the lorry moves out of the way the next 3 miles of motorway are empty. This is the issue!

We are allowing huge sections of empty motorway for the purpose of 1 lorry company getting their journey completed 4 minutes earlier.

Believe it or not, but my time and that of the 10-20 cars behind me is more valuable than a lorry load of stuff that'll likely be parked up when it arrives at its destination for much more time than it saved with overtaking.

The solution is four fold:

- A minimum speed limit of 60mph on the motorway for cars
- A ban on speedlimiters set at below 56mph
- A ban on lorries overtaking on all 2 lane dual carriageways and motorways between 6am and 8pm
- A ban on lorries using lanes 3 or 4 on multi-lane motorways

I drive a lot on the continent. In Germany their smart motorway network is much better and adaptable than ours. There they will ban lorries overtaking when it starts to get congested rather than at specific times of the day whilst at the same time slowing the traffic to 100-130kph. As soon as the motorway is clearing the restrictions are lifted.

The outcome? Everyone (including lorries) get to their destinations quicker.

[Solocle]

John145 said:

In this country we bemoan our lack of efficiency. The road network is a serious issue in this.

On a weekly basis I drive Cambs to Crewe. M11, A14, M6, M6 Toll, M6.

Elephant racing is not conducted by a 50mph limited lorry and a 60mph limited lorry.

It's the 56.4mph and 56.5mph lorries. Overtakes regularly taking 2 minutes.

The practical effect on a 150 mile journey? 30-45 minute delay. I stick the cruise control on at an indicated 77mph for the whole journey, regardless of time of day. When I leave at 5am the journey takes 2 hours 30minutes. When I leave 1 hour later, it takes 3 hours 15 minutes. The difference? The number of times I'm held up by lorries overtaking.

When the lorry moves out of the way the next 3 miles of motorway are empty. This is the issue!

We are allowing huge sections of empty motorway for the purpose of 1 lorry company getting their journey completed 4 minutes earlier.

Believe it or not, but my time and that of the 10-20 cars behind me is more valuable than a lorry load of stuff that'll likely be parked up when it arrives at its destination for much more time than it saved with overtaking.

The solution is four fold:

- A minimum speed limit of 60mph on the motorway for cars
- A ban on speedlimiters set at below 56mph
- A ban on lorries overtaking on all 2 lane dual carriageways and motorways between 6am and 8pm
- A ban on lorries using lanes 3 or 4 on multi-lane motorways

I drive a lot on the continent. In Germany their smart motorway network is much better and adaptable than ours. There they will ban lorries overtaking when it starts to get congested rather than at specific times of the day whilst at the same time slowing the traffic to 100-130kph. As soon as the motorway is clearing the restrictions are lifted.

The outcome? Everyone (including lorries) get to their destinations quicker.

General measures right, perhaps some tweaks.
For example, instead of 06:00-20:00, 06:00-10:00 and 15:00-

Edited by Solocle on Thursday 24th August 09:49

[John145]

Solocle said:

General measures right, perhaps some tweaks.
For example, instead of 06:00-20:00, 06:00-10:00 and 15:00-

Edited by Solocle on Thursday 24th August 09:49

I don't understand why you'd want to encourage congestion at peak business hours.

[Solocle]

John145 said:

I don't understand why you'd want to encourage congestion at peak business hours.

Ban the overtaking during those hours should alleviate congestion. Of course, the lorries should be disciplined enough to leave enough room between them for slip traffic. Of course, in the current situation, it's not like slip traffic isn't oft faced with a wall of lorries.

[John145]

Solocle said:

Ban the overtaking during those hours should alleviate congestion. Of course, the lorries should be disciplined enough to leave enough room between them for slip traffic. Of course, in the current situation, it's not like slip traffic isn't oft faced with a wall of lorries.

In my experience of driving in Germany when they're banned, they just suck it up and leave a reasonable gap and don't drive nose to tail as there's no point.

[anonymous-user]

There should be a rule/suggestion whereby the person being overtaken lifts off the power and just coasts for 5 seconds, that would scrub enough speed to allow a nice swift HGV overtake, and doesn't infer that the person being overtaken has a small penis, or is any less of a man etc.

But truck drivers are bitter little uneducated (or worse, self-educated) fat men, generally, who like to dominate the road, and judging by Norfolk's post above, they have absolutely no regard for anyone else's journey and take pleasure in holding as many people up as possible.

There's a stereotype for a reason.