RE: Aston Martin DB11: Driven
Discussion
DonkeyApple said:
...and the earlier straight 6 engines were from WO Bentley I think. I'm pretty sure that the only time an Aston has run with a genuinely Aston engine born and bred was Tadek Marek's legendary V8.
The DB-era straight six was a Marek development of an engine that started off with a WO design at Lagonda, but it's a bit like saying Saab used Triumph engines...TooMany2cvs said:
DonkeyApple said:
...and the earlier straight 6 engines were from WO Bentley I think. I'm pretty sure that the only time an Aston has run with a genuinely Aston engine born and bred was Tadek Marek's legendary V8.
The DB-era straight six was a Marek development of an engine that started off with a WO design at Lagonda, but it's a bit like saying Saab used Triumph engines...How extensive Marek's redesign was, I don't know? But my understanding was that it wasn't a whole new design unlike his V8 which was?
As far as I am aware that's the only engine which is AM born and bred.
Edited by DonkeyApple on Monday 2nd May 16:53
DonkeyApple said:
Well, technically, it's a Ford engine. Built at Ford in Cologne and owned by Ford but it's bespoke for Aston and they have exclusive use of it and also pay to have their name over the factory's door. Prior to that 2004 deal, the engines were built in the UK by Cosworth Tech who were first a subsidiary of Ford and then part of VAG. So prior to 2005 and Ford's construction of the Cologne factory unit they were VW engines. 
. And before that the straight 6 units were obviously from Ford owned Jaguar and the earlier straight 6 engines were from WO Bentley I think. I'm pretty sure that the only time an Aston has run with a genuinely Aston engine born and bred was Tadek Marek's legendary V8.
In short, Aston has never really had its own engine and Merc engines aren't exactly a bad choice by a long shot.
As you say, it's the V8 unit from their licensing agreement with Ford that went up for tender and Aston didn't have the money to finance a replacement in the same vein as the long standing deal with Ford so ended up offering equity in exchange for the open deal with Merc.
I believe that all vehicles run Merc electronics and key switchgear regardless of whether the car has a Merc V8 or the old Ford V12.
I just hope they can keep that V12 going for as long as possible because it is an awesome engine. But I guess the addition of FI may have stripped out some of that defining character and made it just a bit more generic and inline with the competition?
Unless it was you that made the comment when I asked about AML engines who was employed by Aston then the facility Aston have in Cologne is completely seperated from Ford's (though on the Ford Cologne site which is enormous), is staffed by Aston employees and not Ford's and the engine was designed inhouse by Aston. . And before that the straight 6 units were obviously from Ford owned Jaguar and the earlier straight 6 engines were from WO Bentley I think. I'm pretty sure that the only time an Aston has run with a genuinely Aston engine born and bred was Tadek Marek's legendary V8. In short, Aston has never really had its own engine and Merc engines aren't exactly a bad choice by a long shot.
As you say, it's the V8 unit from their licensing agreement with Ford that went up for tender and Aston didn't have the money to finance a replacement in the same vein as the long standing deal with Ford so ended up offering equity in exchange for the open deal with Merc.
I believe that all vehicles run Merc electronics and key switchgear regardless of whether the car has a Merc V8 or the old Ford V12.
I just hope they can keep that V12 going for as long as possible because it is an awesome engine. But I guess the addition of FI may have stripped out some of that defining character and made it just a bit more generic and inline with the competition?
I always find it odd that in similar conversations about Porsche it is rarely mentioned how much of the content is made by VW / Audi and previously outside companies.
The screen and dash electronics are apparently done in cooperation with a Chinese firm. The engine electronics are from Bosch via AMG because all of the big three German manufactuers electronics are. The switchgear is Merc which compared to the Ford and Volvo stuff used previously will please Aston owners.
I am certain I lived in a student flat with a B&Q bathroom the same colour as that interior.
Progress sounds really encouraging and let's face it, any journo article before a long term test or private ownership articles are some form of PR. Highlighting Aston for doing this seems odd.
The look of the car is a real slow burn and I like it more and more. A lot more to see than on the DB9. The eventual Vantage model should be a real looker.
Progress sounds really encouraging and let's face it, any journo article before a long term test or private ownership articles are some form of PR. Highlighting Aston for doing this seems odd.
The look of the car is a real slow burn and I like it more and more. A lot more to see than on the DB9. The eventual Vantage model should be a real looker.
I think there's one part in the V12 which is still made by the old Ford supplier. Maybe the odd collet or screw here and there but there hasn't been much left in the parts list which is common with Ford since they went to Bosch ECU's a while back...
I'm sure the "little" engine will revert back to an AML in house engine in the future too.
I'm sure the "little" engine will revert back to an AML in house engine in the future too.
Not sure why, but I am finding it hard to be excited by this - I am a big V600 Vantage (superchargers the size of washing machines) and Vanquish with a manual box sort of person and some how it doesn't do it for me.
The cowling over the instrument binnacle looks a bit of mess as well (and its the same one on the press car photos) as does the centre console.
I hope it all works out though.......
The cowling over the instrument binnacle looks a bit of mess as well (and its the same one on the press car photos) as does the centre console.
I hope it all works out though.......
jakeb said:
The cowling over the instrument binnacle looks a bit of mess as well (and its the same one on the press car photos) as does the centre console.
I hope it all works out though.......
Likewise on both points.I hope it all works out though.......
For some reason the interior dash shot reminded me of an early TVR wedge !
Dan Trent said:
Hello!
And, no, despite what we all thought it is NOT a Mercedes engine in this one.
Cheers,
Dan
This v12 engine was under development prior to the merc aston deal being on the table - so it was luckily developed all in house. And, no, despite what we all thought it is NOT a Mercedes engine in this one.
Cheers,
Dan
The majority of the tech inside will be mercs - as part of the deal Merc have pretty much told aston what they have to have of theirs in the DB11 and future cars ... and in my eyes probably a good thing. You just have to look at the new S class or AMG GTS to see where merc are going!
I think the sound of the car was a concern for some but I really think aston have done the car justice!!!
It would not surprise me if within 5 years Merc have bought out aston (just like bmw/Rolls royce cars, VW group/bentley).
Chafford1 said:
cho said:
Looking forward to seeing one in the metal. At the moment it looks a bit like a bigger F type coupe
High praise, given how good looking the F Type is.Saw a db7 today. Lovely looking car but just made me think that designs haven't moved on as much as they could or should have. Lots of people point towards the 911 when suggesting that it's okay to evolve a design but AM have a whole line up of similar looking cars
smilo996 said:
Unless it was you that made the comment when I asked about AML engines who was employed by Aston then the facility Aston have in Cologne is completely seperated from Ford's (though on the Ford Cologne site which is enormous), is staffed by Aston employees and not Ford's and the engine was designed inhouse by Aston.
I always find it odd that in similar conversations about Porsche it is rarely mentioned how much of the content is made by VW / Audi and previously outside companies.
The screen and dash electronics are apparently done in cooperation with a Chinese firm. The engine electronics are from Bosch via AMG because all of the big three German manufactuers electronics are. The switchgear is Merc which compared to the Ford and Volvo stuff used previously will please Aston owners.
I think people are just trying help out a struggling little company who make charming but old cars. If people thought Aston actually made an engine themselves they'd run a mile. Best keep pushing the merc connection..I always find it odd that in similar conversations about Porsche it is rarely mentioned how much of the content is made by VW / Audi and previously outside companies.
The screen and dash electronics are apparently done in cooperation with a Chinese firm. The engine electronics are from Bosch via AMG because all of the big three German manufactuers electronics are. The switchgear is Merc which compared to the Ford and Volvo stuff used previously will please Aston owners.
cho said:
That's true but I suppose you don't really want your 200k super car to be mistaken for another manufacturers car.
Saw a db7 today. Lovely looking car but just made me think that designs haven't moved on as much as they could or should have. Lots of people point towards the 911 when suggesting that it's okay to evolve a design but AM have a whole line up of similar looking cars
I also looked at Astons briefly in my hunt for a new car. Visited AM Cambridge. Parking lot of about 20 cars, plus five in showroom. Excluding the display-only DB5, they were all 10 or less years old, all some version of silver or grey, mostly black interiors, tailors grey headlining and frankly it was pretty hard to tell the £35k car apart from the £250k car without staring hard. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry when I saw the room out the back displaying the amazing array of interior and exterior colours available... that no-one chooses.Saw a db7 today. Lovely looking car but just made me think that designs haven't moved on as much as they could or should have. Lots of people point towards the 911 when suggesting that it's okay to evolve a design but AM have a whole line up of similar looking cars
jayemm89 said:
I also looked at Astons briefly in my hunt for a new car. Visited AM Cambridge. Parking lot of about 20 cars, plus five in showroom. Excluding the display-only DB5, they were all 10 or less years old, all some version of silver or grey, mostly black interiors, tailors grey headlining and frankly it was pretty hard to tell the £35k car apart from the £250k car without staring hard. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry when I saw the room out the back displaying the amazing array of interior and exterior colours available... that no-one chooses.
I think people are departing from the black/black grey/black blue/black (exterior/interior) embracing the more out there colours with cream/tan interiors contrast stitching etc. A lot of the new vanquishes were volcano red.
V12 V S I have seen a few in Flugplatz blue - and at AML HQ they have a Flugplatz Vanquish on water!
mattf93 said:
V12 V S I have seen a few in Flugplatz blue - and at AML HQ they have a Flugplatz Vanquish on water!
Flugplatz? FLUGPLATZ?Apart from it not being the most mellifluous foreign-language word to an Anglophone ear, they've actually called a colour "Airport"?
Sometimes, I despair...
cho said:
Chafford1 said:
cho said:
Looking forward to seeing one in the metal. At the moment it looks a bit like a bigger F type coupe
High praise, given how good looking the F Type is.Saw a db7 today. Lovely looking car but just made me think that designs haven't moved on as much as they could or should have. Lots of people point towards the 911 when suggesting that it's okay to evolve a design but AM have a whole line up of similar looking cars
Having seen the DB11 in the flesh, it's properly stunning. Very modern, very 'Aston' as well as being all new, but properly stunning.
TooMany2cvs said:
mattf93 said:
V12 V S I have seen a few in Flugplatz blue - and at AML HQ they have a Flugplatz Vanquish on water!
Flugplatz? FLUGPLATZ?Apart from it not being the most mellifluous foreign-language word to an Anglophone ear, they've actually called a colour "Airport"?
Sometimes, I despair...
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