RE: Jaguar F-Type SVR: Driven

RE: Jaguar F-Type SVR: Driven

Author
Discussion

DJM7691

426 posts

108 months

Wednesday 15th June 2016
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Debaser said:
DJM7691 said:
Hmmm.... For the money I can't help but think this would be a more explosive and fun way to do it

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/a...
It's a shame Jag don't build used SVRs.
Very good, but misses the point I'm making. I'm aware that I'm comparing a brand new with a lightly used car but the point is that when you get to charging over 6 figures, there are other cars that are a lot more special.

I'm a fan of the lower spec F-types but at this price point it doesn't make much sense.

havoc

29,918 posts

234 months

Wednesday 15th June 2016
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DanielSan said:
Given the choice of a 911 Turbo, GTR or this then I'd be walking into the Jag showroom.
I really don't get why some journos (and JLR themselves) keep touting those two as competitors - yes, they're all 4wd FI high-power coupes, BUT the 911 and GTR are practical 4-seaters, while the F-Type is a semi-impractical 2-seater (properly impractical in soft-top guise, as per posts above).

If you only need 2 seats then you're probably only going to buy the Porker or the GTR if you're either (a) a real fan of those cars, in which case the F-Type probably doesn't get a look-in; or (b) you HAVE to have 4wd, in which case it might. Or (c) you prefer the driving dynamics of those cars, but in that case there's stuff like GT3s and R8's in the wings too...

Dan pitches it closer - the V8 versions (even this SVR, I suspect) are far more comparable to the V8 Vantage and the SLS.

CaptainRAVE

360 posts

111 months

Wednesday 15th June 2016
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Lovely car. The only thing that stopped me buying the V8 was when a load of people told me that only old men buy Jaguars - it was only when I looked closer at the drivers that I noticed this to be the case every time. The rear is also a little strange looking. Have had a fair few runs with them against my AMG and have always enjoyed seeing the F-type on the road. I do really like this car and could imagine it being my next car (when I have aged a little more!).

bigmuzzie

89 posts

101 months

Wednesday 15th June 2016
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havoc said:
I really don't get why some journos (and JLR themselves) keep touting those two as competitors - yes, they're all 4wd FI high-power coupes, BUT the 911 and GTR are practical 4-seaters, while the F-Type is a semi-impractical 2-seater (properly impractical in soft-top guise, as per posts above).

If you only need 2 seats then you're probably only going to buy the Porker or the GTR if you're either (a) a real fan of those cars, in which case the F-Type probably doesn't get a look-in; or (b) you HAVE to have 4wd, in which case it might. Or (c) you prefer the driving dynamics of those cars, but in that case there's stuff like GT3s and R8's in the wings too...

Dan pitches it closer - the V8 versions (even this SVR, I suspect) are far more comparable to the V8 Vantage and the SLS.
But then it's AWD - The SLS is 50% more expensive again at least, Aston Martins aren't cheap either. Which sounds like it fills a niche in the market between all these cars. Job jobbed.

filski666

3,841 posts

191 months

Wednesday 15th June 2016
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CaptainRAVE said:
Lovely car. The only thing that stopped me buying the V8 was when a load of people told me that only old men buy Jaguars - it was only when I looked closer at the drivers that I noticed this to be the case every time. The rear is also a little strange looking. Have had a fair few runs with them against my AMG and have always enjoyed seeing the F-type on the road. I do really like this car and could imagine it being my next car (when I have aged a little more!).
you choose your cars based on other people's opinions of stereotypes?

wow...

HighwayStar

4,215 posts

143 months

Wednesday 15th June 2016
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filski666 said:
CaptainRAVE said:
Lovely car. The only thing that stopped me buying the V8 was when a load of people told me that only old men buy Jaguars - it was only when I looked closer at the drivers that I noticed this to be the case every time. The rear is also a little strange looking. Have had a fair few runs with them against my AMG and have always enjoyed seeing the F-type on the road. I do really like this car and could imagine it being my next car (when I have aged a little more!).
you choose your cars based on other people's opinions of stereotypes?

wow...
Stunning... and rather sad eh. Strangely, the Cap'nR drives a Merc instead... also driven by old me wink

V8A*ndy

3,695 posts

190 months

Wednesday 15th June 2016
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anonymous said:
[redacted]
I have to agree.

I was very disappointed after spending some time with the F-type.

They really do not feel the asking price.








DonkeyApple

54,921 posts

168 months

Wednesday 15th June 2016
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Dan Trent said:
DonkeyApple said:
That must be an extremely weird sensation. It sounds as if you are effectively nothing more than a passenger at the points where you'd like to be learning, mastering or practicing the fun bits of driving? As an aside, how transferable eould the driving style learnt for this car be to another car? If computers are doing the fun bits now instead of the human then they aren't all going to be programmed the same?
It is a bit weird or, at least, counter intuitive. But I'd disagree about being 'nothing more than a passenger' - there's nothing dull about the speed you can turn in or ability to deploy full beans in the corner way earlier than your brain tells you is possible. If you can left-foot brake it's especially satisfying as you can overlap the braking, get on the power really quickly and enjoy the fact that the car will continue to turn into the corner under power, carry huge speed through the apex and then give you everything it's got all the way through to the exit. I did a 'straight' pass for the camera which I'lll upload that shows it better - you can see fresh black rubber going down under power from both outside wheels while the car pulls itself through the corner, giving a sense of what the black boxes are actually doing.

Unlike something like a AWD hot hatch (which will always be battling inherent front-biased weight balance and inclined to push on) the Jag turns in like a RWD car but once on the power has the traction of AWD, with a nice little flavour of RWD adjustability as it puts its power down. OK, it won't do the full showboating on the lock stops stuff. But it's still hugely satisfying when you get it right.

The original R8 had a sense of this too, likewise the GT-R. The four-wheel steer 991 Turbo now has the turn-in to quickly settle into a neutral balance under power and can give you just a smidge of oversteer if you've got the modes set up correctly. These are all very complicated cars exploiting some very trick hardware and software; where Jag scores is in making it *feel* more natural and instinctive. And fun.

Hope that helps!

Dan
Thanks. I can see how it would be great fun out of the box but surely after a few laps you just want to practice doing it yourself rather than the computer? Isn't it just natural after you've been shown how to do something to then want to learn how to do it?

Dan Trent

1,866 posts

167 months

Wednesday 15th June 2016
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As RacerMike said, it's nothing new in technique terms and, if not as spectacular as RWD showboating, is just as satisfying to master. And in a car with this much power ALWAYS exciting! Pitching the nose into the turn way earlier than instinct tells you is right and then sliding diagonally out to a perfect exit with the wheels straight and foot buried into the carpet is way cool.

I guess when people have got used to F-Types going massively sideways in the blink of an eye it may seem a little 'weird' or counter intuitive in this instance. But it's plenty fun in its own right and I think Jaguar has done a really smart calibration job in making the various electronic stuff feel unobtrusive, 'natural' and entirely on your side. The sheer speed you can carry through a corner and the options available to you in how you tackle it are all addictive in their own right. Depends on your priorities though - there's still a RWD R if big skids are the be all end all!

Cheers,

Dan

DonkeyApple

54,921 posts

168 months

Wednesday 15th June 2016
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Dan Trent said:
As RacerMike said, it's nothing new in technique terms and, if not as spectacular as RWD showboating, is just as satisfying to master. And in a car with this much power ALWAYS exciting! Pitching the nose into the turn way earlier than instinct tells you is right and then sliding diagonally out to a perfect exit with the wheels straight and foot buried into the carpet is way cool.

I guess when people have got used to F-Types going massively sideways in the blink of an eye it may seem a little 'weird' or counter intuitive in this instance. But it's plenty fun in its own right and I think Jaguar has done a really smart calibration job in making the various electronic stuff feel unobtrusive, 'natural' and entirely on your side. The sheer speed you can carry through a corner and the options available to you in how you tackle it are all addictive in their own right. Depends on your priorities though - there's still a RWD R if big skids are the be all end all!

Cheers,

Dan
It's probably me misunderstanding a part of your article.

I read this part: 'And, like a Focus RS in Drift Mode, it'll slide diagonally through the corner spinning all four wheels and with the wheel dead ahead. Indeed, you have to fight the instinct to throw corrective lock at it - the more you do that the more the computers contrive to straighten the car and the messier it becomes.' and took the part about fighting the inclination to apply opposite lock as the computers effectively doing this on your behalf through adjusting power to wheels etc. It just sounded weird to me as it sounded like the computer was doing the fun, skilful bit and all you were getting was the initial fun of the sensation but not the reward of the accomplishment. If that makes sense?

havoc

29,918 posts

234 months

Wednesday 15th June 2016
quotequote all
bigmuzzie said:
havoc said:
I really don't get why some journos (and JLR themselves) keep touting those two as competitors - yes, they're all 4wd FI high-power coupes, BUT the 911 and GTR are practical 4-seaters, while the F-Type is a semi-impractical 2-seater (properly impractical in soft-top guise, as per posts above).

If you only need 2 seats then you're probably only going to buy the Porker or the GTR if you're either (a) a real fan of those cars, in which case the F-Type probably doesn't get a look-in; or (b) you HAVE to have 4wd, in which case it might. Or (c) you prefer the driving dynamics of those cars, but in that case there's stuff like GT3s and R8's in the wings too...

Dan pitches it closer - the V8 versions (even this SVR, I suspect) are far more comparable to the V8 Vantage and the SLS.
But then it's AWD - The SLS is 50% more expensive again at least, Aston Martins aren't cheap either. Which sounds like it fills a niche in the market between all these cars. Job jobbed.
Sorry, meant the AMG GT...SLS is not for sale anymore.

I was more generally referring to the F-Type V8 overall, RWD and 4WD - in this instance, yes it's 4WD, so it's a SLIGHTLY cheaper front-engine'd version of the Audi R8...except the Audi has an even more stonking engine, weighs >200kg less (!!!) and has clearly superior dynamics...wonder why no-one's mentioned the R8 in comparison then?!? biggrin

zebra

4,555 posts

213 months

Wednesday 15th June 2016
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Dan

Thanks, enjoyed that piece. Look forward to the full video.

bigmuzzie

89 posts

101 months

Thursday 16th June 2016
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havoc said:
Sorry, meant the AMG GT...SLS is not for sale anymore.

I was more generally referring to the F-Type V8 overall, RWD and 4WD - in this instance, yes it's 4WD, so it's a SLIGHTLY cheaper front-engine'd version of the Audi R8...except the Audi has an even more stonking engine, weighs >200kg less (!!!) and has clearly superior dynamics...wonder why no-one's mentioned the R8 in comparison then?!? biggrin
The R8 plus is 40% more maybe?? The base car is 20% more. So no, not at all.

And unless you've driven both (in which case I'm very jealous and will concede) please don't preach chassis and dynamics at me because you don't actually know it's all press opinions.

luke g28

174 posts

158 months

Thursday 16th June 2016
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Spoiler looks like such a lame afterthought. Something they found in the parts bin and stuck on. They should have put a proper wing on it or just left it without.

Ozzie Osmond

21,189 posts

245 months

Thursday 16th June 2016
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£110k version of a £60k car? For a few £ more you can have yourself a genuine junior supercar in the shape of McLaren's 540C.

Buy the real thing.

mikEsprit

827 posts

185 months

Thursday 16th June 2016
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Ozzie Osmond said:
£110k version of a £60k car? For a few £ more you can have yourself a genuine junior supercar in the shape of McLaren's 540C.

Buy the real thing.
Along these lines, I was wondering if this would make it more expensive than the top XK. I'm not sure how I missed the fact that the XK is no longer in production. I read this site pretty much every day. Did I just miss an article?

When the F Type came out, I remember how it was suggested that it might result in more XK sales as people come in for it and see the bigger, nicer XK for not much more and buy it. Not that I'm a potential buyer for a new car this expensive, but I do think Jaguar has created a bit of a perception problem by making the F Type their flagship sports car when it was introduced as their 2nd tier sport car, initially.

havoc

29,918 posts

234 months

Thursday 16th June 2016
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bigmuzzie said:
havoc said:
Sorry, meant the AMG GT...SLS is not for sale anymore.

I was more generally referring to the F-Type V8 overall, RWD and 4WD - in this instance, yes it's 4WD, so it's a SLIGHTLY cheaper front-engine'd version of the Audi R8...except the Audi has an even more stonking engine, weighs >200kg less (!!!) and has clearly superior dynamics...wonder why no-one's mentioned the R8 in comparison then?!? biggrin
The R8 plus is 40% more maybe?? The base car is 20% more. So no, not at all.

And unless you've driven both (in which case I'm very jealous and will concede) please don't preach chassis and dynamics at me because you don't actually know it's all press opinions.
F-Type SVR "From £110,000"

R8 "From £119,500" - so <10% difference. Given the base model has 533bhp and a better power-to-weight ratio, that's the one to compare - the SVR wouldn't see which way the 602bhp R8 Plus went.

...and of course it's all press opinions, I agree, but given the massive weight saving, the weight distribution and the talent of the original R8, the SVR team will have delivered something very special if it can properly compare to the gen-2 R8.

DJM7691

426 posts

108 months

Friday 17th June 2016
quotequote all
havoc said:
bigmuzzie said:
havoc said:
Sorry, meant the AMG GT...SLS is not for sale anymore.

I was more generally referring to the F-Type V8 overall, RWD and 4WD - in this instance, yes it's 4WD, so it's a SLIGHTLY cheaper front-engine'd version of the Audi R8...except the Audi has an even more stonking engine, weighs >200kg less (!!!) and has clearly superior dynamics...wonder why no-one's mentioned the R8 in comparison then?!? biggrin
The R8 plus is 40% more maybe?? The base car is 20% more. So no, not at all.

And unless you've driven both (in which case I'm very jealous and will concede) please don't preach chassis and dynamics at me because you don't actually know it's all press opinions.
F-Type SVR "From £110,000"

R8 "From £119,500" - so <10% difference. Given the base model has 533bhp and a better power-to-weight ratio, that's the one to compare - the SVR wouldn't see which way the 602bhp R8 Plus went.

...and of course it's all press opinions, I agree, but given the massive weight saving, the weight distribution and the talent of the original R8, the SVR team will have delivered something very special if it can properly compare to the gen-2 R8.
Agree completely. I could list at list 8 supercars at that price point that I would rather have than the SVR.

Also, the noise.... I remember Clarkson reviewing the standard V8 Coupe and said that the noise becomes very wearing. Yes, it's great on the occasions when you want an A-road blast but the fact that it is noisy, everywhere, all the time gets a bit annoying. And that sums up the character of the car to me. It is just a bit juvenile, trying to hard.

bigmuzzie

89 posts

101 months

Friday 17th June 2016
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DJM7691 said:
Agree completely. I could list at list 8 supercars at that price point that I would rather have than the SVR.

Also, the noise.... I remember Clarkson reviewing the standard V8 Coupe and said that the noise becomes very wearing. Yes, it's great on the occasions when you want an A-road blast but the fact that it is noisy, everywhere, all the time gets a bit annoying. And that sums up the character of the car to me. It is just a bit juvenile, trying to hard.
Autocar disagree with you, but again it's a single point of view.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/jaguar/f-type/...

Dan - do a back to back test, you know you want to!

akadk

1,477 posts

178 months

Friday 17th June 2016
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anyone commenting on the noise being too loud without having lived with an F-TYPE is simply unqualified to say anything

I have a V8 S and a V8 R

The V8 S with the exhaust closed is genuinely SILENT - easily Audi levels of quietness (aka silent)

but press the open button, and all hell breaks loose.