Importing and driving a 500 back from Italy - advice

Importing and driving a 500 back from Italy - advice

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Discussion

jackpe

Original Poster:

487 posts

133 months

Tuesday 2nd August 2016
quotequote all
So, I'm going to see my dad in Italy tomorrow and whilst there I thought it might be fun for me to buy an old Fiat 500 and drive it back via the south of France to the UK.

Does anyone have any experience of doing this? Now I am a joint Italian/UK national but not resident in Italy so don't think I can re-register the car as a normal purchase in Italy, I believe I can buy it but then the plates will have to be taken off by the seller, leaving it unregistered and me unable to drive it. But there is a way of getting some temporary plates I think?

I'm going to document the whole thing with a video.. I'm sure it will be amusing when I break down on top of an alpine pass.

sim16v

2,170 posts

170 months

Tuesday 2nd August 2016
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From what I have read, it's a bit more difficult buying a car in Italy as you are supposed to be a resident.

I'd suggest getting your dad to "buy" the car, then sending the paperwork back when "he" has exported it.

There is a recent thread on here about it, maybe two or three weeks old.

battered

4,088 posts

116 months

Tuesday 2nd August 2016
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You do have to have a "residente" or find someone who has to get it registered. It's very hard in Italy, my parents have tried and failed with their holiday home, they now hire cars. Considering Italy's reputation for ignoring regulations and participating in organised crime, it's very hard to dodge the rules out there, it seems.

I think if you can get a "residente" to get it in their name then you can sort out insurance in joint names and then drive it north. Someone on Blatchat managed to do something similar I think, or at least they set out to try. Not sure whether they got back to the UK undr its own power.

996TT02

3,077 posts

109 months

Tuesday 2nd August 2016
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I don't know much other than the service exists, but look into German transit/temporary number plates (yes I know this is Italy but still applies, AFAIK).

Something like:

http://www.export-plate.com/

Davel

8,908 posts

227 months

Tuesday 2nd August 2016
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I have no idea whatsoever but keep us posted and hopefully, if it takes place, lots of photos please.

Good luck!

Edited by Davel on Thursday 11th August 12:33

jackpe

Original Poster:

487 posts

133 months

Wednesday 3rd August 2016
quotequote all
Ok so..

Looked into it and the official way for a foreigner to export an Italian car is the following:

There is a little known provision in the Italian Traffic Code (article 99 CdS) which regulates the procedure to export an used vehicle previously registered in Italy to another country by issuing a "temporary registration document" (aka "foglio di via") and temporary license plates valid only for driving the vehicle from Italy to its destination country.

In order to obtain these, the foreign buyer should either get the following paperwork to the local "Ufficio Provinciale Motorizzazione Civile" (click here to find the nearest one), either by himself or with the help of a "Studio di Consulenza Automobilistica", which is an agency that will take care of the whole process (obviously for a fee).

1. A DTT2119 form, duly filled in by the buyer/driver;
2. Receipt for payment of € 9.00 on postal account no. 9001;
3. Receipt for payment of € 16.00 on postal account no. 4028;
4. Title of car ("certificato di proprietà"), showing that the previous plates were "cancelled for export";
5. Authorization to export the vehicle, filled in and signed by the seller;
6. Copy of the ID document of the seller;
7. Application for issuing temporary license plates, filled in and signed by the foreign buyer/driver;
8. Copy of the ID document of the buyer/driver;
9. Copy of the vehicle logbook ("carta di circolazione") showing the car's current roadworthiness inspection is still valid.

Process goes as follows:

1. Get insurance from your local insurance agency (they should be able to insure the car by tech specs + VIN) - green card. You DON'T have to get an Italian insurance

1a. Important: print out in clear big font your full name, home address, ID document number and car details (later you'll see why).

2. Go to Italy, check the car

3. Go with the seller to the bank (seller should make an appointment at his bank beforehand) and make the payment there. As a result you should have a receipt from the bank, that you've made a payment to the seller for a car and indicate the car specs there. Also you sign the sales contract in the bank (you can draw a contract together with the seller, just use common sense). You'll need to witnesses to seal the deal.

4. Together with seller go to nearest main office of auto agenzia. Things you take in:
- yourself and seller with ID documents
- both car licence plates
- bill of sale and sales contract
- car's "carta di circolazione" and "certificato di proprieta".
Car is deregistered from seller and taken off Italian roads (licence plates are taken) and registered for export under your name.

Things you leave the agency with:
- one cardboard temporary car licence plate (check that number matches to the one indicated in owner change form)
- car's updated "carta di circolazione" and "certificato di proprieta"
- owner change form (tt 2119)
- receipt for paying the agency services

5. That's it. Attach the licence plate at the rear window inside (since it's not waterproof) and given that you've got the green card, you should be good to go.




Unfortunately I've just been informed by the Agenzie Auto that it is now very hard to get the Radiazione per Esporto, i.e the Export licence as the Italian Govenrment now demands proof that the car is already abroad before granting it. This also means it is basically impossible to get the temporary export plates. It has apparently been implemented because I think people were pretending to have exported cars in order not to avoid one of the taxes.

I have however also been told that the Agenzie simply don't like doing it but that they are obliged to so I will try again when I get there this afternoon. In any case it seems to me that I have 3 options open to me:

1. Try and push through with the official process and the export plates despite the reluctance of the Agenzie. Ive downloaded all the cumbersome forms. I am however also worried on time frames, If I buy a car on Friday will the paperwork be ready by Wednesday morning when I need to leave?

2. Depending on the seller try and convince them to leave the plates with me till i register the car in the UK. Might just be doable since my dad lives locally.. but I still needs me to do a passaggio di proprieta in my name.. and not sure this is possible.

3. Get my dad to buy it as an Italian, then drive it up to the UK, register it here in his name (he is also registered at my house as has a bank account here in the UK), then send the plates back, get it deregistered in Italy and then finally put it in my name.

I'll keep you all updated.

battered

4,088 posts

116 months

Wednesday 3rd August 2016
quotequote all
jackpe said:
Ok so..

Unfortunately I've just been informed by the Agenzie Auto that it is now very hard to get the Radiazione per Esporto,

In any case it seems to me that I have 3 options open to me:

1. Try and push through with the official process and the export plates despite the reluctance of the Agenzie. Ive downloaded all the cumbersome forms. I am however also worried on time frames, If I buy a car on Friday will the paperwork be ready by Wednesday morning when I need to leave?

2. Depending on the seller try and convince them to leave the plates with me
3. Get my dad to buy it as an Italian,
Option 1. Get it sorted between Friday and Wednesday, in Italy? You have Bob Hope and no hope. All you will hear is endless "va bene" when it clearly isn't.
Optin 2: Naah.
Option 3: Winner. Easy. Named driver, get it back to the UK, sort it out on arrival in Blighty.

Davel

8,908 posts

227 months

Wednesday 3rd August 2016
quotequote all
Or buy one here - ferry to Santander and drive it back....

SirTK

184 posts

104 months

Wednesday 3rd August 2016
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Or buy from an auction in that Europe place, rather like ebay.
Encheres.catawiki.eu

TK


battered

4,088 posts

116 months

Wednesday 3rd August 2016
quotequote all
SirTK said:
Or buy from an auction in that Europe place, rather like ebay.
Encheres.catawiki.eu

TK
Buying the thing is the easy bit. Registering it and insuring it, less so.

The Surveyor

7,471 posts

206 months

Wednesday 3rd August 2016
quotequote all
Can you not just get you're Dad, as an Italian citizen to buy the car, then insure it for you to drive as well, then let you drive it back to the UK, and then let him deal with the paper-work once the car is tucked up safely in the UK. No need for any temporary export plates or getting the bank manager to witness the sale or any other such Italian red-tape.

Get your NOVA certificate once it's in the UK, insure it in your name off the chassis number, apply to the DVLA for a UK registration then MOT it. Job jobbed.

The car may be still registered in Italy for a while as the paperwork goes through but if the last keeper was your Dad, what does that matter?

princeperch

6,848 posts

216 months

Wednesday 3rd August 2016
quotequote all
I might be wrong but I think wheeler dealers did exactly this in an episode a while back

The Surveyor

7,471 posts

206 months

Wednesday 3rd August 2016
quotequote all
princeperch said:
I might be wrong but I think wheeler dealers did exactly this in an episode a while back
Rules have changed since then, you'd also want to make sure you make it further than they did...

jackpe

Original Poster:

487 posts

133 months

Thursday 4th August 2016
quotequote all
Looks like i found a good clean car.. Picking up tomorrow at 3pm. In terms of the process it seems that I might be able to buy it myself directly as it turns out I am still registered at an address in Italy despite my UK passport and Bekg resident in the UK. This makes things much easier.

Car is Ivory (beige!!) but I like it. It has been restored but fairly well by the look of it. Lots of new parts. Gearbox is a bit vague and crunches into 2 and third when downshifting unless double de clutching and blipping throttle on the way down..but most of them do. The linkage might have also be a worn. Great fun to drive and slower than a bicycle though.
I will post some pics once I have the car.. And a full story on my adventure driving it back. It looks as if Pistonheads won't allow me to out links to the video I will do (don't ask - commercial and advertising related rules) so you'll have to make do with pics!

Pics tomorrow evening!

jackpe

Original Poster:

487 posts

133 months

Thursday 4th August 2016
quotequote all
The Surveyor said:
Rules have changed since then, you'd also want to make sure you make it further than they did...
You're both right.. WD dis do the same thing and the car did not make it very far. I hope mine is better! Certainly seems to be..

jackpe

Original Poster:

487 posts

133 months

Friday 5th August 2016
quotequote all
Guys,

Meet Sofia. Named after the seller's daughter. Richard (a mate) has a 500 and knows them well. He told me a few things to look out for. Mainly don't be blinded by a shiny one and absolutely avoid one that looks like it was crashed.

Sofia looks pretty shiny and I think there's some evidence of a crash repair up front. So it's good job I spoke to an expert before I bought the car. Also it's Ivory, so basically beige. But to me it looks good. So I keep telling myself. The gearbox is also dreadful, much worse than the others I tried. Double declutch with a blip of throttle is the only way to stop crunching into second and third and even then it still clunks quite unhappily. Good project for Richard when I get back.

More info will of course follow in due course. Couple of pics for now attached.








k-ink

9,070 posts

148 months

Friday 5th August 2016
quotequote all
Sounds like a load of over complicated BS. Turn up with a wad of cash. Get a receipt. Drive to the EuroTunnel. It can't be harder than that. FFS the world has gone mad.

ps

Many of these don't have synchromesh gearboxes. That'll be why it is crunching.

jackpe

Original Poster:

487 posts

133 months

Friday 5th August 2016
quotequote all
k-ink said:
Sounds like a load of over complicated BS. Turn up with a wad of cash. Get a receipt. Drive to the EuroTunnel. It can't be harder than that. FFS the world has gone mad.

ps

Many of these don't have synchromesh gearboxes. That'll be why it is crunching.
None of them have synchro so they all tend to do
It if you rush a change or on downchanges bit this one is worse than others I have driven..
And yes, way more complicated than it needs to be

Iva Barchetta

44,044 posts

132 months

Friday 5th August 2016
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How long are you planning on taking driving back ?

I've done the drive home in one long day, can't see you doing that in a 500.

k-ink

9,070 posts

148 months

Friday 5th August 2016
quotequote all
I saw a project some time ago where they swapped in a new more powerful engine and gearbox, which I am sure had synchromesh. So perhaps there are still companies which offer a solution?