RE: Enjoying a fast car slowly
Discussion
I understand what Reg is telling Dan, but I can't help thinking there will be too many people reading this header and missing the last word (slowly)!
So they will just head into corners on the wrong side of the road regardless of sight-lines because they are going too F*cking Fast!
I prefer to stay on the left of the white lines, just in case!
So they will just head into corners on the wrong side of the road regardless of sight-lines because they are going too F*cking Fast!
I prefer to stay on the left of the white lines, just in case!
Driving like that is like a lot of things in life - you put in the work to understand how to do it, then when you do it it fells easier, more relaxed, but you are actually making good progress and travelling more quickly than someone who is working hard all of the time (analogies: Roger Federer and David Gower in their chosen sports - look effortless, but as good as anyone ever). You also get a sense of satisfaction from doing it well. Even better in a car that is more difficult to drive smoothly.
I think the title could also be misleading with the word slowly - how about driving a fast car more intelligently...
ultimately - lower speed into a corner may feel that you are driving more slowly, but as it allows you onto the power much earlier the result is that you come out of the corner more balanced / stable and able to put down power much sooner - rather than having taken too much power into the corner and coming out scrabbling for grip and having to brake to stabilise the car... end result - slower in can mean faster speed over ground overall - the method Reg Local is promoting isn't about driving slower - it is about being more deliberate / understanding the car more / using the car rather than fighting it - it is about driving more intelligently...
ultimately - lower speed into a corner may feel that you are driving more slowly, but as it allows you onto the power much earlier the result is that you come out of the corner more balanced / stable and able to put down power much sooner - rather than having taken too much power into the corner and coming out scrabbling for grip and having to brake to stabilise the car... end result - slower in can mean faster speed over ground overall - the method Reg Local is promoting isn't about driving slower - it is about being more deliberate / understanding the car more / using the car rather than fighting it - it is about driving more intelligently...
Nicely timed article.
I had a great brisk drive in my fun car at the weekend for the first time in a month after working on it. I did many miles on a twisty road with loads of fun and very much minimal risk to other users. Then two miles from home I gave it the berries out of a roundabout up a clear dual carriageway, at high speed I then hit a flow of water crossing the road (raining all morning), and had a scary 'tank' slapper to recover from.
Another lesson learned. I take pleasure and pride in driving smoothly and safely, but I need to work hard at avoiding foolish moments of ignoring risks...
I had a great brisk drive in my fun car at the weekend for the first time in a month after working on it. I did many miles on a twisty road with loads of fun and very much minimal risk to other users. Then two miles from home I gave it the berries out of a roundabout up a clear dual carriageway, at high speed I then hit a flow of water crossing the road (raining all morning), and had a scary 'tank' slapper to recover from.
Another lesson learned. I take pleasure and pride in driving smoothly and safely, but I need to work hard at avoiding foolish moments of ignoring risks...
akirk said:
I think the title could also be misleading with the word slowly - how about driving a fast car more intelligently...
Good article. As suggested at a higher level, it is about shifting (evolving?) a driver's mindset away from mash/BRAKE!!/turn in/mash definition of SPEED!!! and refocusing it to smoothness, getting into the zone and flow; from which, speed invariably follows.Achieving that smoothness, zone and flow requires different things depending on different cars/conditions/roads. Perhaps it is achieving this goal in these ever changing contexts rather than achieving an arbitrary 'speed'/flicker of traction control/feeling fast that should be the focus.
If 'Flow' is the goal, then the capability of the car is largely irrelevant (fast or slow), you just have to approach how you achieve it differently - and take lessons so you can achieve it more often!
The below might help to explain it. Speed = medium skill level/high challenge = Arousal. That's why it's exciting. Flow = high skill level/high challenge. They are different things, but the latter is ultimately more satisfying (be it driving a car/playing the piano/laying bricks/chairing a meeting etc etc).
Loyly said:
ToothbrushMan said:
Regs style comes from a different time with different attitudes I'm afraid, an honest and gentlemanly time.
...but if you can't detach yourself from seething with red mist or have no desire to be a faster, safer driver then it's not for you.I know I used to do that on occasion, but have since realised that if anything goes wrong (even if not your fault), YOU will be the one in the dock...
Gandahar said:
The best thing is not to have too much tuition, nor wide tyred and overpowered cars, but to have something that lets you experiment and have fun and cock it up at slow speeds. So you go home laughing, and if it goes wrong, not too sad. Everyone needs a car that when spanked by it is not too hard, financially etc, so to continue the great driving journey and to keep your mojo up.
Got to disagree here too - long-time PH'ers will be aware of a chap on here who was driving a (very PH) car that by modern standards isn't that quick (~180bhp, low-torque), when he got it wrong, ended up broadside on a country road, collected a biker in a bad way and ended up in jail for dangerous driving.Unless you're talking about a true classic car or an MX-5 (and even then, possibly), EVERYTHING has the capacity to get you into trouble if you cock it up...
...and the best way NOT to cock it up is to know what you're doing. Track-tuition will give you the physical skills (and the over-confidence?), on-road tuition will give you the emotional and observational/planning skills that will let you exploit those physical skills SAFELY.
ben5575 said:
If 'Flow' is the goal, then the capability of the car is largely irrelevant (fast or slow), you just have to approach how you achieve it differently - and take lessons so you can achieve it more often!
The below might help to explain it. Speed = medium skill level/high challenge = Arousal. That's why it's exciting. Flow = high skill level/high challenge. They are different things, but the latter is ultimately more satisfying (be it driving a car/playing the piano/laying bricks/chairing a meeting etc etc).
Like that a lot. I think we've all had drives where we've been making proper progress but felt mentally at about "7 or 8/10ths" and got to the end with a big smile but without the adrenalin.The below might help to explain it. Speed = medium skill level/high challenge = Arousal. That's why it's exciting. Flow = high skill level/high challenge. They are different things, but the latter is ultimately more satisfying (be it driving a car/playing the piano/laying bricks/chairing a meeting etc etc).
Going back to the article, the issue is usually where you come across other traffic and how you (are able to) negotiate it...
Just to throw my thoughts in here - I have recently been thinking about some sort of course or such ilke to help me 'tune in' to my new car. I've had FWD, RWD, AWD, slow, fast, saloon, sports, coupe, 4x4...but my current car is the first car I have owned that I feel like I am essentially not good enough for the car - yet/ It's a combo of power, RWD, mid-engine etc, that is new to me and I'll happily admit to being not really comfortable with it yet. Pretty afraid it's going to bite me hard and that will be (in this car) very expensive and potentially curtains.
So articles and comments like Reg's are very welcome - regardless of whether the driving gods who frequent PH like it or not.
It's all about learning. I learned the benefits of 'flow' by owning (original) Minis. In those things you had to know how to carry speed as much as possible - once you had lost your momentum you were screwed, ha! I learned how it felt for an RWD car to wag it's tail and how to control that pendulum by having a 1974 Beetle as a daily - drive that in the snow/ice with no traction control etc. and you can feel how the car behaves at about 3mph...nothing safer than that!
Similarly my RX8 had incredible balance and (in the wet with DSC off) could swing it's rear, but because of the comparatively low power (230) you were not going at a million miles an hour to get the car to play. My 300hp S3 with it's AWD just seemed to never break traction unless you were particularly stupid on a wet, greasy road - in which case you had to be going too fast, get understeer and then a tiny bit of lift-off oversteer before everything was gathered up and you could hurl yourself at the horizon again.
My point being that every car is different and needs to be learned - but each lesson learned play a part in how easily you start to learn subsequent cars. I really am not sure why people feel the need to rail on an article about just that - learning things.
I know that I want to learn my new car better. Because I know that not only will I be safer, I will also have a LOT more fun. Right now, I can have fun, but that fun feels a tad unsafe!
P~
So articles and comments like Reg's are very welcome - regardless of whether the driving gods who frequent PH like it or not.
It's all about learning. I learned the benefits of 'flow' by owning (original) Minis. In those things you had to know how to carry speed as much as possible - once you had lost your momentum you were screwed, ha! I learned how it felt for an RWD car to wag it's tail and how to control that pendulum by having a 1974 Beetle as a daily - drive that in the snow/ice with no traction control etc. and you can feel how the car behaves at about 3mph...nothing safer than that!
Similarly my RX8 had incredible balance and (in the wet with DSC off) could swing it's rear, but because of the comparatively low power (230) you were not going at a million miles an hour to get the car to play. My 300hp S3 with it's AWD just seemed to never break traction unless you were particularly stupid on a wet, greasy road - in which case you had to be going too fast, get understeer and then a tiny bit of lift-off oversteer before everything was gathered up and you could hurl yourself at the horizon again.My point being that every car is different and needs to be learned - but each lesson learned play a part in how easily you start to learn subsequent cars. I really am not sure why people feel the need to rail on an article about just that - learning things.
I know that I want to learn my new car better. Because I know that not only will I be safer, I will also have a LOT more fun. Right now, I can have fun, but that fun feels a tad unsafe!
P~
I've had tuition on track, and I know it made me faster, but I also believe it made me safer, it certainly went a long way to removing the fear I often had that I was going to spin off and take some poor bugger with me... Interestingly, the first thing that my instructor picked up on was that I wasn't switching my view from short to long often enough, which surprised me, having ridden fast bikes for a number of years I thought my 'making progress' observational skills were pretty good be it bike or car 
Not only did it increase my speed through corners, it made me much more relaxed and able to take in more information about what was going on around and in front of me
Page 1 of the Chimaera owners handbook has a short intro from Peter Wheeler which talks about high torque to weight and speed awareness, and finishes off with... 'In summary, we suggest that you observe the old racing adage, "slow in, quick out". Please drive safely and have fun'.
Not only did it increase my speed through corners, it made me much more relaxed and able to take in more information about what was going on around and in front of me Page 1 of the Chimaera owners handbook has a short intro from Peter Wheeler which talks about high torque to weight and speed awareness, and finishes off with... 'In summary, we suggest that you observe the old racing adage, "slow in, quick out". Please drive safely and have fun'.
Interesting review of the ride in the F type. I did the IAM on my bike and found exactly the same thing. that the effort and concentration on riding a particular way made riding more fun, smoother and faster. But I am not convinced that there is one single "right" way of driving / riding and that plod have the key to the door. Instead, I reckon that the greater enjoyment etc is as much the result of driving in a disciplined way rather than the normal day dreaming interspersed with ragging it.
Purity14 said:
Dan Trent said:
Reg's approved technique of going off-side on approach to blind right-handers is a tad unconventional I'll admit. But it's worth it for the looks on the faces of people coming the other way! 
Dan
From someone who has been on the recieving end of a car in my lane hitting me head on in similar circumstances, I can assure you the look on my face inside my helmet before impact would not be the look you were expecting.Dan
Next time I am sailing through the air in similar circumstances I will remind myself that it is Reg's approved technique.
Edited by Purity14 on Sunday 19th February 09:55
Spannerski said:
Purity14 said:
Dan Trent said:
Reg's approved technique of going off-side on approach to blind right-handers is a tad unconventional I'll admit. But it's worth it for the looks on the faces of people coming the other way!
Dan
From someone who has been on the recieving end of a car in my lane hitting me head on in similar circumstances, I can assure you the look on my face inside my helmet before impact would not be the look you were expecting.Dan
Next time I am sailing through the air in similar circumstances I will remind myself that it is Reg's approved technique.
Edited by Purity14 on Sunday 19th February 09:55
Reg's approach is simply - you move out where the time to move back is less than the extra time / vision you gain from moving... otherwise you never move out...
Genuine question - can someone explain how Advanced driving has helped them? Has anyone been initially sceptical but gone on to extract real value?
My pre-conception is that Advanced driving is for people that aren't really interested in cars but have no real hobbies and therefore have arrived at Advanced driving as something to talk about.
I recognise this is hugely sweeping, but it is my perception from looking at the forums.
So what is it actually about?
My pre-conception is that Advanced driving is for people that aren't really interested in cars but have no real hobbies and therefore have arrived at Advanced driving as something to talk about.
I recognise this is hugely sweeping, but it is my perception from looking at the forums.
So what is it actually about?
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