Electric cars, does everyone really think they are amazing.

Electric cars, does everyone really think they are amazing.

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Discussion

Chestersaurus1

8 posts

102 months

Sunday 6th August 2017
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As someone who regularly hits 30+k miles a year, an EV is sadly a pipe dream. At best a hybrid system could be sustainable option.

However with diesels out of favour, tax changes and fuel allowances, it's more cost effective to run another v8 and it be something Interesting. Leasing is simply not an option.

Once the infrastructure grows, be it EV or Hydrogen, I might be able to change.

andy43

9,548 posts

253 months

Sunday 6th August 2017
quotequote all
Downsides are range if it affects you, the high purchase price, and if you're into cars the lack of a decent noise.
We've done 10,000 miles in my wife's 24kw Leaf. Charged at home on the standard 13 amp plug in charger apart from maybe two top ups at Nissan. Never needed to charge anywhere else as we have another car for longer trips.
It's comfortable, silly quick from a standstill, and you can de ice it with an iPad app without leaving the house. It's an ugly thing though, the part touch screen and part button controls are terrible, and it can give you range anxiety on an unfamiliar journey if you haven't planned it but overall for a commuter/every day appliance we'd never go back.
£150 a month for three years business use, 8,000 miles a year inc maintenance - zero tax, zero servicing and consumables (topping up diesels with piss ferchrissakes), pretty much zero fuel costs, just get in and drive.
I don't think the 2040 fully electric plan will happen on time, but electric is genuinely the answer to most motorists needs. I aim to always have a V8 as well though...

LuS1fer

41,086 posts

244 months

Sunday 6th August 2017
quotequote all
Friend has a Leaf. Can barely hear it outside but it's still audible inside re tyres etc. He spends much time driving carefully but never seems to have any fun in it.
Objectively, I think it's ugly and not particularly comfortable in the back.
What people tend to ignore, while banging on about running costs, is the high depreciation and who is going to buy a used EV appliance.
Teslas may be good but they are way beyond most people.
I have no issues with EVs but not until the market accepts them used.
In the US, used EVs cost peanuts.

Thankyou4calling

10,595 posts

172 months

Sunday 6th August 2017
quotequote all
The number of people I talk to who are either stupid or misinformed or both about cars is truly staggering.

This is a bit of a thread sidetrack but it generally starts with people saying they won't buy a diesel because the government is banning them.

On being questioned they often say how you soon won't be allowed to drive in London in a Diesel car.

Apparently the congestion charge is going to be £25 a day for all diesels .

Again if you ask them "How often do you drive into the London congestion charge zone" pretty much 100% they never have.

Furthermore if you tell them the facts about what is actually going to happen and what cars are going to be affected it's met with them saying they've heard different.

Goes to show that if you make enough noise about a nonsense rumour people are generally so thick they'll believe it.

Same goes for Electric cars I'd imagine.

Jimmy Recard

17,540 posts

178 months

Sunday 6th August 2017
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VonSenger said:
£184pcm, With £500 down. 8k miles pa.
Cheap motoring.
8k miles a year?

Pretty useless. That just isn't enough for most people. If you're retired and sit at home all day, it's probably more than enough. For anyone else I can't see it working

DoubleD

22,154 posts

107 months

Sunday 6th August 2017
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Thankyou4calling said:
The number of people I talk to who are either stupid or misinformed or both about cars is truly staggering.
But youre a car geek. They are probably thinking "oh god here comes that car bore again"

We geeks are in the minority, most people couldnt give a stuff about cars.

Coolbanana

4,383 posts

199 months

Sunday 6th August 2017
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Lancerevo said:
...Lots of us live in houses with no drive way. Are we going to have 1000s of extension leads going acrosss the road.
For people like your good self car 'ownership' will become a lot different. You will buy into a Scheme whereby you have a car you can call upon the use of as and when you require it. Parking will be at a nearby central facility.

It is unsustainable for a growing population to be able to have the luxury of a car - let alone multiple cars - available for personal ownership in high density areas.

If you have your own parking then you can have your own car but all those currently relying upon Public Parking zones will ultimately find that they cannot own their own car.

Obviously this is still some years away but it will happen. It solves many infrastructure issues.

All those who do not want this to happen simply do not have a choice. EV is coming is a big way. 'Old Tech' that is fast coming to the forefront with ever-increasing investment ; what was simply a tech that was dabbled in for 'fun' is now being taken seriously by the Major Players and Governments. The 'Old Tech' will now improve exponentially every few years compared to before and while it may be hard for non-experts in the various fields to get their heads around it, it is coming. smile

Is EV long term? A lot longer than many here want to believe!

J4CKO

41,287 posts

199 months

Sunday 6th August 2017
quotequote all
Jimmy Recard said:
VonSenger said:
£184pcm, With £500 down. 8k miles pa.
Cheap motoring.
8k miles a year?

Pretty useless. That just isn't enough for most people. If you're retired and sit at home all day, it's probably more than enough. For anyone else I can't see it working
Just under 22 miles a day, covers a lot of commutes, mine is a 14 mile round trip, my wifes is less, two of the neighbours work at the same place as me.

I work from home two days a week.

People generally go away a couple of weeks a year, cars arent always used every day, you dont need to be retired and not really use a car, would cover a lot of peoples usag.

Also, a lot of lease type deals have mileage restrictions, in that respect it is the same as an IC engined car deal, if you go over you pay additional.


njd27

210 posts

119 months

Sunday 6th August 2017
quotequote all
LuS1fer said:
Friend has a Leaf. Can barely hear it outside but it's still audible inside re tyres etc. He spends much time driving carefully but never seems to have any fun in it.
Objectively, I think it's ugly and not particularly comfortable in the back.
What people tend to ignore, while banging on about running costs, is the high depreciation and who is going to buy a used EV appliance.
Teslas may be good but they are way beyond most people.
I have no issues with EVs but not until the market accepts them used.
In the US, used EVs cost peanuts.
I have a lot of fun in my Leaf. The thing is, if your range is well inside the distance you're commuting, you can drive it everywhere as fast as you like, without worrying about mpg, because it's only pennies per mile. It's a bit of a revelation actually.

DoubleD

22,154 posts

107 months

Sunday 6th August 2017
quotequote all
Coolbanana said:
Lancerevo said:
...Lots of us live in houses with no drive way. Are we going to have 1000s of extension leads going acrosss the road.
For people like your good self car 'ownership' will become a lot different. You will buy into a Scheme whereby you have a car you can call upon the use of as and when you require it. Parking will be at a nearby central facility.

It is unsustainable for a growing population to be able to have the luxury of a car - let alone multiple cars - available for personal ownership in high density areas.

If you have your own parking then you can have your own car but all those currently relying upon Public Parking zones will ultimately find that they cannot own their own car.

Obviously this is still some years away but it will happen. It solves many infrastructure issues.

All those who do not want this to happen simply do not have a choice. EV is coming is a big way. 'Old Tech' that is fast coming to the forefront with ever-increasing investment ; what was simply a tech that was dabbled in for 'fun' is now being taken seriously by the Major Players and Governments. The 'Old Tech' will now improve exponentially every few years compared to before and while it may be hard for non-experts in the various fields to get their heads around it, it is coming. smile

Is EV long term? A lot longer than many here want to believe!
Just because you have some off road space doesnt mean that you will necessarily have the right to a personal car, you would be using valuable space on the road network.

It would be a very difficult sell to make people give up their own cars and is unlikely to happen for some considerable time.

Electric cars are ok for now, but I feel that we are still waiting for a better solution.

Blaster72

10,772 posts

196 months

Sunday 6th August 2017
quotequote all
andy43 said:
Downsides are range if it affects you, the high purchase price, and if you're into cars the lack of a decent noise.
We've done 10,000 miles in my wife's 24kw Leaf. Charged at home on the standard 13 amp plug in charger apart from maybe two top ups at Nissan. Never needed to charge anywhere else as we have another car for longer trips.
It's comfortable, silly quick from a standstill, and you can de ice it with an iPad app without leaving the house. It's an ugly thing though, the part touch screen and part button controls are terrible, and it can give you range anxiety on an unfamiliar journey if you haven't planned it but overall for a commuter/every day appliance we'd never go back.
£150 a month for three years business use, 8,000 miles a year inc maintenance - zero tax, zero servicing and consumables (topping up diesels with piss ferchrissakes), pretty much zero fuel costs, just get in and drive.
I don't think the 2040 fully electric plan will happen on time, but electric is genuinely the answer to most motorists needs. I aim to always have a V8 as well though...
I've never heard anyone describe a Nissan Leaf as "silly quick" before rofl

They are not by any stretch of the imagination quick.

So far, electric vehicles don't add up for me. The only desirable ones are too expensive, the only cheap ones around have poor range and even worse residuals than their conventional counterparts. The charging infrastructure is not at all well developed and unless you are lucky enough to have a garage or driveway charging at home isn't viable.

The only one that currently appeals to me is the Model S and that is far,far too expensive to consider.

I had high hopes for the Model 3 but it seems to be more a £40k car (even £30k was pushing it) and that puts it out of range of most people in normal jobs.

Hopefully some new battery tech will be developed in time and the UK charging network will evolve to be painless and efficient. My only concern is that any cost savings will be wiped out by tax grabs on electricity with smart meters enabling car charging to be monitored.


CoolHands

18,496 posts

194 months

Sunday 6th August 2017
quotequote all
The main problem that can't be overcome is millions of people live in flats or blocks where charging is impossible. We don't all have a 3-bed semi with a drive.

TSCfree

1,681 posts

230 months

Sunday 6th August 2017
quotequote all
CoolHands said:
The main problem that can't be overcome is millions of people live in flats or blocks where charging is impossible. We don't all have a 3-bed semi with a drive.
Most people don't live in a petrol station either....

.....and they're probably not the target demo-graph anyway.

loose cannon

6,029 posts

240 months

Sunday 6th August 2017
quotequote all
CoolHands said:
The main problem that can't be overcome is millions of people live in flats or blocks where charging is impossible. We don't all have a 3-bed semi with a drive.
And the standard reply is to that is la la la not listening La la la

ZX10R NIN

27,494 posts

124 months

Sunday 6th August 2017
quotequote all
pti said:
P100D has an EPA range of 335 miles...
If it's anything like my FIL's one then 240 is your max (that's he averages 220) whilst that's still good it's one of the things that winds him up, which is one of the reasons (build quality being the another) he's going back to an ICE because between those issues & the depreciation he's done with them for now.

Most electric cars I've been in are adequate they do the job they're designed to do for example a Leaf is a decent hatch but for half the price you can buy a Pulsar that will do exactly the same job, that's why for me they're not great also the way they measure the range (on both electric & Hybrids is designed to mislead which leads to disappointment) yes some people will get very close but from a personal view I want to drive it the same as I would any other car so in my case they fall well short of their claims.

I personally think they'll get better but if we're doing all this for the environment, then overall they're no better than the ICE both harm the environment in different way none really being better than the other (just as an example if London went fully EV their would need to be at least 1 new power station built & that would be Nuclear) the way Lithium is mined is having a major effect on those countries freshwater supplies & so on.

Both forms have their place which is why the most popular car in 2030/40 & onwards will be Hybrids as they allow the best of both as far as law makers are concerned as in the governments won't have to make any unpopular decisions (power stations etc) & people carry on about their business as per usual.

ZX10R NIN

27,494 posts

124 months

Sunday 6th August 2017
quotequote all
Coolbanana said:
For people like your good self car 'ownership' will become a lot different. You will buy into a Scheme whereby you have a car you can call upon the use of as and when you require it. Parking will be at a nearby central facility.

It is unsustainable for a growing population to be able to have the luxury of a car - let alone multiple cars - available for personal ownership in high density areas.

If you have your own parking then you can have your own car but all those currently relying upon Public Parking zones will ultimately find that they cannot own their own car.

Obviously this is still some years away but it will happen. It solves many infrastructure issues.

All those who do not want this to happen simply do not have a choice. EV is coming is a big way. 'Old Tech' that is fast coming to the forefront with ever-increasing investment ; what was simply a tech that was dabbled in for 'fun' is now being taken seriously by the Major Players and Governments. The 'Old Tech' will now improve exponentially every few years compared to before and while it may be hard for non-experts in the various fields to get their heads around it, it is coming. smile

Is EV long term? A lot longer than many here want to believe!
Those people you say won't be able to have a car will have a Hybrid as they will still be sold alongside EV's

sonnenschein3000

710 posts

89 months

Sunday 6th August 2017
quotequote all
IMO the best solution was this idea of a hydrogen otto-cycle engine, like what BMW did a few years ago with the Hydrogen 7 (7 series) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_Hydrogen_7



Hydrogen is seen as a liquid battery in many ways, and this is because, in terms of chemistry, you need to put electrical energy into breaking up a H20 bond (water) and getting the hydrogen out. What you have essentially done is invested energy into that hydrogen. The hydrogen then gets transported to a local fuel station, and then a hydrogen combustion engine car driver fills his car up with hydrogen similar to as if it were a petrol, and then he can just use it as if it were a petrol. Its a proper engine that revs, has an exhaust noise etc., and only creates water as its sole emission.

This is the ideal solution for PH'ers in my opinion. Its good for the environment (provided that the electricity in the first place comes from a sustainable source), and there is almost no sacrifice of fun or enjoyment. I'm pretty sure that if a E63 AMG, or an M5, or an RS6 became hydrogen-combustion, nobody would complain.

northwestrecovery

159 posts

183 months

Sunday 6th August 2017
quotequote all
Petrol or diesel isn't expensive ,when you add tax on them it is .I never drive to get economy i drive for fun and every drive is an event ,if you want an easy self driving boring ride get a taxi . when they tax electric car charging to cover the lost fuel tax it wont be cheap and still boring .

The Mad Monk

10,474 posts

116 months

Sunday 6th August 2017
quotequote all
Coolbanana said:
For people like your good self car 'ownership' will become a lot different. You will buy into a Scheme whereby you have a car you can call upon the use of as and when you require it. Parking will be at a nearby central facility.

It is unsustainable for a growing population to be able to have the luxury of a car - let alone multiple cars - available for personal ownership in high density areas.

If you have your own parking then you can have your own car but all those currently relying upon Public Parking zones will ultimately find that they cannot own their own car.

Obviously this is still some years away but it will happen. It solves many infrastructure issues.

All those who do not want this to happen simply do not have a choice. EV is coming is a big way. 'Old Tech' that is fast coming to the forefront with ever-increasing investment ; what was simply a tech that was dabbled in for 'fun' is now being taken seriously by the Major Players and Governments. The 'Old Tech' will now improve exponentially every few years compared to before and while it may be hard for non-experts in the various fields to get their heads around it, it is coming. smile

Is EV long term? A lot longer than many here want to believe!
Where is EV going? Where is the ICE going for that matter? The truth is, no one knows,

By the time 2040 (or pick any other time in the future) gets here, perhaps, perhaps....

Perhaps we will have to apply for a government permit to own a car?

Perhaps we will have electric cars which, at the end of the last drive of the day will, driverlessly, take themselves to a charging area somewhere nearby, wait patiently until it's their turn, then plug themselves in, recharge themselves, and then drive themselves back to your bijou apartment, lock themselves up and then wait for you to appear in the morning.

Perhaps who knows?

I am fairly sure of one thing, I won't be here.


Edited by The Mad Monk on Sunday 6th August 11:42

e21Mark

16,205 posts

172 months

Sunday 6th August 2017
quotequote all
This is quite nice but you can keep all the modern stuff thanks.