RE: Fortunes of Lotus on the up!
Discussion
|https://thumbsnap.com/oBZqVtA7[/url]aaron_2000 said:
HustleRussell said:
aaron_2000 said:
HustleRussell said:
Again, lots of opinion but still no explanation why it’s a bad idea for Lotus?
FWIW I’m guessing Ariel and Westfield aren’t doing it because they have neither the funds to invest nor the international connections to bring such a product to market. When SUVs and soft-roaders constitute such a large proportion of cars sold, you’d have to be mad to have the ability to sell one but opt not to because iSore and aaron_2000 wouldn’t like it
Mass produced generic blobs aren't bad ideas, they'll sell to sheeple that want nothing but an appliance, I don't really get what you're doing on PH if that's all you want from a Lotus. FWIW I’m guessing Ariel and Westfield aren’t doing it because they have neither the funds to invest nor the international connections to bring such a product to market. When SUVs and soft-roaders constitute such a large proportion of cars sold, you’d have to be mad to have the ability to sell one but opt not to because iSore and aaron_2000 wouldn’t like it
If you don't want Lotus to sell cars "I don't really get what you're doing on PH"
HustleRussell said:
Why not explain why building cars which will sell isn't a good idea for Lotus?
If you don't want Lotus to sell cars "I don't really get what you're doing on PH"
Because Lotus builds cars for track/B-Roads. In this case, as I said earlier, why doesn't every manufacturer build the exact same copy/paste car? Surly those will sell right? Caterham SUV? Ultima SUV? Maybe a Westfield SUV? Or Morgan can rival the Kadjar perhaps? Niche manufacturers are niche for a reason, they don't pander to mainstream audiences, which is exactly what a Lotus SUV would be doing. I'm sure you won't come back with a valid argument, just passive nonsense. If you don't want Lotus to sell cars "I don't really get what you're doing on PH"
aaron_2000 said:
Because Lotus builds cars for track/B-Roads. In this case, as I said earlier, why doesn't every manufacturer build the exact same copy/paste car? Surly those will sell right? Caterham SUV? Ultima SUV? Maybe a Westfield SUV? Or Morgan can rival the Kadjar perhaps? Niche manufacturers are niche for a reason, they don't pander to mainstream audiences, which is exactly what a Lotus SUV would be doing. I'm sure you won't come back with a valid argument, just passive nonsense.
Yeah but does it matter? They may be seen as diluting their sporting values and heritage by some, but as a 'real' driver that's only important if it affects their sports car line; and that can only be positively as they will have more money to spend so longer term plans can be made, improved, new models can be brought online and it wouldn't be a bad thing to get Lotus into the broader consciousness.This is assuming it'll be a mid-range crowd pleaser, and we don't really know what it'll be yet. It may be quite good and a great alternative for people like me that have to have an SU/family vehicle and don't have an option from Lotus.
aaron_2000 said:
Because Lotus builds cars for track/B-Roads. In this case, as I said earlier, why doesn't every manufacturer build the exact same copy/paste car? Surly those will sell right? Caterham SUV? Ultima SUV? Maybe a Westfield SUV? Or Morgan can rival the Kadjar perhaps? Niche manufacturers are niche for a reason, they don't pander to mainstream audiences, which is exactly what a Lotus SUV would be doing. I'm sure you won't come back with a valid argument, just passive nonsense.
Said it before, here is the perfect Caterham SUV:
And the Morgan SUV:
aaron_2000 said:
HustleRussell said:
Why not explain why building cars which will sell isn't a good idea for Lotus?
If you don't want Lotus to sell cars "I don't really get what you're doing on PH"
Because Lotus builds cars for track/B-Roads. If you don't want Lotus to sell cars "I don't really get what you're doing on PH"
If the figures add up and Lotus can be profitable by selling an SUV, what would your business case be for not doing so? Can you show me the press release where Lotus have said that if they are to sell an SUV they will cease all sports car activities?
What you are demonstrating is typical British backward-facing bumhattery.
Did you know that in Asia, Hyundai are selling televisions and Mitsubishi are selling air conditioning units? In Thailand there are billboards heralding the new Chinese-built MG ‘Britains choice for quality and reliability’ with a gigantic union jack backdrop.
I remember the furore when Aston Martin announced the Cygnet. “Oh noes!” PHers cried “Brand dilution…!” Then look what happened. The Cygnet served it’s strategic purpose for Aston Martin, practically nobody ever saw one and it has since been forgotten (and Aston Martin is still primarily viewed as the company which makes beautiful GT and sports cars for James Bond etc).
HustleRussell said:
The Cygnet served it’s strategic purpose for Aston Martin, practically nobody ever saw one and it has since been forgotten
Nope, not forgotten - many of us are still laughing like drains at the pitiful fiasco. I'd love to hear more about that "strategic purpose" which was served.Having previously owned a Lotus I think the only certainty about Lotus' future is that it cannot be reliant on the trackday market, which is pretty much all they've had these past 20 years. Eight million versions of the Elise and an Evora which few customers want.
So far as I'm concerned they can stick the badge on whatever they like - but I won't be buying it unless it's a decent modern road-going sports car.
Did the Porsche badge enable Porsche to branch out into expensive German saloons and SUVs? Yes. Building on excellent brand value.
Will the Lotus badge enable Geely/Lotus to branch out and compete with expensive German saloons and SUVs? I very much doubt it. Little brand value.
Yes but I find that a little blinkered. Lotus builds cars, at the moment they appear to be track biassed but in the past they put their badge on the Lotus Carlton, more an A road/Autobahn mile muncher.
The more people label Lotus, the more I hope they diversify. Porsche got loads of flack for the Cayenne thing, not least because it's as ugly as sin. But it rakes in money, something they needed desperately.
If Hethel can knock out a quirky suv with a bit of Lotus dna/styling, a modicum of practicality, a decent paint job and a Union Jack on the side, the Chinese will be queueing round the corner to buy 'em!
The more people label Lotus, the more I hope they diversify. Porsche got loads of flack for the Cayenne thing, not least because it's as ugly as sin. But it rakes in money, something they needed desperately.
If Hethel can knock out a quirky suv with a bit of Lotus dna/styling, a modicum of practicality, a decent paint job and a Union Jack on the side, the Chinese will be queueing round the corner to buy 'em!
aaron_2000 said:
Because Lotus builds cars for track/B-Roads.
rockin said:
Nope, not forgotten - many of us are still laughing like drains at the pitiful fiasco. I'd love to hear more about that "strategic purpose" which was served.
EU proposals were that companies producing cars with average emissions over a certain amount would be fined millions each year - particularly bad news for any of the performance brands that weren't part of a larger group. Aston introduced the Cygnet to effectively halve their 'fleet emissions' and avoid the fines. It didn't matter if they paid people to take them away, they saved them a fortune.aaron_2000 said:
HustleRussell said:
Why not explain why building cars which will sell isn't a good idea for Lotus?
If you don't want Lotus to sell cars "I don't really get what you're doing on PH"
Because Lotus builds cars for track/B-Roads. In this case, as I said earlier, why doesn't every manufacturer build the exact same copy/paste car? Surly those will sell right? Caterham SUV? Ultima SUV? Maybe a Westfield SUV? Or Morgan can rival the Kadjar perhaps? Niche manufacturers are niche for a reason, they don't pander to mainstream audiences, which is exactly what a Lotus SUV would be doing. I'm sure you won't come back with a valid argument, just passive nonsense. If you don't want Lotus to sell cars "I don't really get what you're doing on PH"
I have a Porsche Cayman, I have no interest in their SUVs and no problem with the fact that they build them but if it allows them to produce what I want so be it.
As has already been said, it's very short sighted and a an old British mindset... it's not what we do, we'll do what we've always done. No need to change. Well lots of companies faded and died because they just did the same thing.
If there is a market Lotus can exploit, they can do it well in their own way, they should.
Lotus doesn't have the brand value. Porsche did, as well as the backing of VAG to platform share (Toerag) as well as a state of the art factory.
So, Lotus are going to tool up (where?) to build this SUV at vast cost to sell how many, and though which dealerships? I don't think there is a Lotus dealership in Sheffield. I can't recall ever seeing one. The only way they could do it is to share a lot with Volvo and build the thing in Volvo factories. Well, good luck with that. Geely aren't stupid and if they think it won't sell and make a lot of money, they won't bother.
IIrc, Lotus makes more $$$ doing consultancy work for others.They're very good at what they do. I'd love to see a 21st century take on the 500 series Elite - that really would have a USP.
One last thing; Lotus talks about doing a lot of things and have done for many years - very little comes to fruition.
We'll see, but I won't be surprised if it doesn't happen.
So, Lotus are going to tool up (where?) to build this SUV at vast cost to sell how many, and though which dealerships? I don't think there is a Lotus dealership in Sheffield. I can't recall ever seeing one. The only way they could do it is to share a lot with Volvo and build the thing in Volvo factories. Well, good luck with that. Geely aren't stupid and if they think it won't sell and make a lot of money, they won't bother.
IIrc, Lotus makes more $$$ doing consultancy work for others.They're very good at what they do. I'd love to see a 21st century take on the 500 series Elite - that really would have a USP.
One last thing; Lotus talks about doing a lot of things and have done for many years - very little comes to fruition.
We'll see, but I won't be surprised if it doesn't happen.
Max_Torque said:
Indeed, just like it does with non EVs! Lotus could build a "sports" EV that works on a track, but is fun in the real world, that's what would sell cars. The number of people who actually do track days, even people who own elises is very small.
Build a sports EV, that is fun, can commute 150 to 200miles in the real world, seat 4, be nimble, peppy, and yet return >200mpg equivalent in the real world (as my i3 currently does) and you've got a winner imo.
I'm neither for or against an SUV, but the EV idea makes sense, and given some of the past developments they've shown I wouldn't be enormously surprised to see an electric Elise or Evora someday.Build a sports EV, that is fun, can commute 150 to 200miles in the real world, seat 4, be nimble, peppy, and yet return >200mpg equivalent in the real world (as my i3 currently does) and you've got a winner imo.
There isn't anything wrong with the Toyota drivetrains, but they're not a selling point in the same way as a flat 6 in a 911 is, so the 'loss' of an ICE wouldn't really be as much of an issue. Put an electric motor with sufficient grunt into an Elise and I just know it'd be hilarious.
Ian974 said:
I'm neither for or against an SUV, but the EV idea makes sense, and given some of the past developments they've shown I wouldn't be enormously surprised to see an electric Elise or Evora someday.
There isn't anything wrong with the Toyota drivetrains, but they're not a selling point in the same way as a flat 6 in a 911 is, so the 'loss' of an ICE wouldn't really be as much of an issue. Put an electric motor with sufficient grunt into an Elise and I just know it'd be hilarious.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_RoadsterThere isn't anything wrong with the Toyota drivetrains, but they're not a selling point in the same way as a flat 6 in a 911 is, so the 'loss' of an ICE wouldn't really be as much of an issue. Put an electric motor with sufficient grunt into an Elise and I just know it'd be hilarious.
But I know what you mean.
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