What is happening at EVO magazine?
Discussion
greenarrow said:
Funny you mention the 306 GTI-6. This was a car beloved of Performance Car Magazine (placed above the E36 M3 in their 1996 car of the year final leaderboard) and also early days EVO, but whilst the DC2 still features regularly in current EVO, the GTI-6 I don't think has featured in around a decade, maybe longer. Saw one for sale on Marketplace over the weekend for just £4K. That's probably about a third of what a DC2 would fetch and maybe 25% of the price of a Clio Williams. What a lot of fun one of those would be as a weekend car. I'm really surprised current EVO don't feature some of these attainable and less sought after icon cars but just bang on about the same few favourites....
I've had multiple DC2s but never drove a 306 GTi until a few years back when my brother bought an Astor Grey one for a while. Really impressed me. It definitely reminded me of the DC2 in many ways, in terms of how dynamic and involving the chassis was, control weights were perfect, and it was a truly engaging car. Also surprised with how punchy the engine felt even in the context of modern hot hatch power outputs, I guess that's where a circa 1200kg kerbweight (not far off the DC2's 1125kg) helps. Still think a clean 306 Rallye would feature in my lottery win garage.
carguy45 said:
I've had multiple DC2s but never drove a 306 GTi until a few years back when my brother bought an Astor Grey one for a while. Really impressed me. It definitely reminded me of the DC2 in many ways, in terms of how dynamic and involving the chassis was, control weights were perfect, and it was a truly engaging car. Also surprised with how punchy the engine felt even in the context of modern hot hatch power outputs, I guess that's where a circa 1200kg kerbweight (not far off the DC2's 1125kg) helps.
Still think a clean 306 Rallye would feature in my lottery win garage.
Still think a clean 306 Rallye would feature in my lottery win garage.
For about 18 months I was running my second DC2 and Mrs H had a GTi-6. I think we might have had the S2000 at the same time.
...and yes, I didn't mind taking her car out if needed...gearchange and driving position weren't as good, but it was torquey as you say, and even more keen to wag its' tail (as I found out spectacularly on a local roundabout when I decided to provoke it!
), and it was SO talkative.It needed a few things doing though, so she got bored of it and moved on to a Mk5 GTi.
cerb4.5lee said:
You've brought some real memories back there for me! I was quite obsessed with the GTI-6 back in 1996, and I always remember reading about it in Performance Car magazine. I've never owned a French car though, but the GTI-6 was/is special for me though.
Never owned a French car!? Hand your PH card in on your way out 
A friend of mine had a GTi-6 and I had a Saxo VTS at the time (after graduating from a Saxo VTR) and we thought they were the best cars on the planet. Both brilliant cars, although the VTR/VTS is largely forgotten and oft overlooked for the 106 GTi/Rallye.
Despite the horror stories of French reliability, the Saxo's were faultless. The GTi-6 on the other hand....lol.
NathanChadwick said:
Someone will mention Honda’s Civic - and yes it had a great engine but the rest of it was a bit dismal and Honda had an image problem, NSX/CRX aside - the Civic was an old person’s car. Hence why the bright yellow Jordan version came to be…
I think this is one of those opinions held by motoring journalists, but rarely play out in real life. There has always been a, frankly, huge after market scene for Honda (and all things Japaneseas we know). One man's "dismal" is another man's base car for a host of modifications. As you say, engines are great but they also get the touch points right. Suspension, steering and balance is often fantastic, even in a 'granny-spec' Honda. I think the main reason they were not universally adopted by the 90's crowd was insurance costs tended to be higher, especially for the 'yoofs of the day. Leftfootwonder said:
I think this is one of those opinions held by motoring journalists, but rarely play out in real life. There has always been a, frankly, huge after market scene for Honda (and all things Japaneseas we know). One man's "dismal" is another man's base car for a host of modifications. As you say, engines are great but they also get the touch points right. Suspension, steering and balance is often fantastic, even in a 'granny-spec' Honda. I think the main reason they were not universally adopted by the 90's crowd was insurance costs tended to be higher, especially for the 'yoofs of the day.
Maybe it's a regional thing, but certainly where I grew up, Civics were not a popular choice for young drivers or for modifying in early to mid 90s. I got an LSi EG model (1.5) when I was 20 or so and virtually all my friends and car enthusiast associates were in Novas or Corsas, Fiestas, Peugeot hatches, etc. I was obsessed with getting a vtec (which I eventually did - multiple VTi models) and remembered trying to explain the engine to them, they thought I was BS'ing that a 1.6 was outputting more BHP than a 2.0 Vauxhall red top. We didn't concern ourselves with such trifling things as torque 
. I knew the Japanese aftermarket was huge for Hondas because I read everything I could about them, but I wasn't seeing that replicated where I was. Certainly by the late 90s and early 00s, with Max Power and Fast and the Furious fuelling imagination, they became a much, much more common fixture in cruises and car meets.
Leftfootwonder said:
cerb4.5lee said:
You've brought some real memories back there for me! I was quite obsessed with the GTI-6 back in 1996, and I always remember reading about it in Performance Car magazine. I've never owned a French car though, but the GTI-6 was/is special for me though.
Never owned a French car!? Hand your PH card in on your way out A friend of mine had a GTi-6 and I had a Saxo VTS at the time (after graduating from a Saxo VTR) and we thought they were the best cars on the planet. Both brilliant cars, although the VTR/VTS is largely forgotten and oft overlooked for the 106 GTi/Rallye.
Despite the horror stories of French reliability, the Saxo's were faultless. The GTi-6 on the other hand....lol.
I was lucky to be invited to a whole day of driving the Peugeot performance range ( 106gti, 306XSi and GTI-6, 406 Coupe etc ) at Weston Park in the late 90s - you had the cars to yourself on the estate roads ( as used in the RAC Rally routes ) and a small but varied road route. I had several goes in the 306s and 106s and on the strength of those I left determined to get a new 106Gti ( at the time I had a 309Gti ).
However quickly realised the VTS was a much better deal new than the 106 thanks to trade-in offered, free insurance and dealer discounts. Always thought the little cousins were just a bit more wieldy on the roads I knew I’d drive on than the 306 although the 6-speed box and aircon were nice in the 306 and the extra room was a winner no doubt for some buyers .
Also found it a bit strange how the smaller 106 and VTS had the legs on the 306 on track tests too - maybe the 306 was too much like the ZX 16v and was just a little bit too adjustable at the rear to beat the smaller cars on a flying lap.
All great fun cars to drive though on the road though - a clean example of any of them would be a nice steer ….. although I still think I’d opt for the 106/VTS
s m said:
I think the VTR/VTS had the unfortunate image to overcome and there was also mystical damper differences/rear arb thing to the 106GTi …..overlooking the completely different tyres they wore as new and when reviewed which had a much bigger difference in my experience.
I was lucky to be invited to a whole day of driving the Peugeot performance range ( 106gti, 306XSi and GTI-6, 406 Coupe etc ) at Weston Park in the late 90s - you had the cars to yourself on the estate roads ( as used in the RAC Rally routes ) and a small but varied road route. I had several goes in the 306s and 106s and on the strength of those I left determined to get a new 106Gti ( at the time I had a 309Gti ).
However quickly realised the VTS was a much better deal new than the 106 thanks to trade-in offered, free insurance and dealer discounts. Always thought the little cousins were just a bit more wieldy on the roads I knew I’d drive on than the 306 although the 6-speed box and aircon were nice in the 306 and the extra room was a winner no doubt for some buyers .
Also found it a bit strange how the smaller 106 and VTS had the legs on the 306 on track tests too - maybe the 306 was too much like the ZX 16v and was just a little bit too adjustable at the rear to beat the smaller cars on a flying lap.
All great fun cars to drive though on the road though - a clean example of any of them would be a nice steer ….. although I still think I’d opt for the 106/VTS
Yeah, the 306 GTI-6 never put in stellar lap times did it. The little 106 and Saxo were weapons, I recall one Autocar car of the year feature I think it was 2003 when the VTS got within a second of the far more powerful Clio 172 Cup around Rockingham. I think in truth the GTI-6 was one of the last hot hatches set up purely for the road and to be as adjustable as possible down a switchback B road. Sadly I am not in a position to buy one right now, but the bronze coloured one on marketplace for £4K is calling to me very strongly. Its got good MOT history and seems so cheap for a 90s classic hot hatch!I was lucky to be invited to a whole day of driving the Peugeot performance range ( 106gti, 306XSi and GTI-6, 406 Coupe etc ) at Weston Park in the late 90s - you had the cars to yourself on the estate roads ( as used in the RAC Rally routes ) and a small but varied road route. I had several goes in the 306s and 106s and on the strength of those I left determined to get a new 106Gti ( at the time I had a 309Gti ).
However quickly realised the VTS was a much better deal new than the 106 thanks to trade-in offered, free insurance and dealer discounts. Always thought the little cousins were just a bit more wieldy on the roads I knew I’d drive on than the 306 although the 6-speed box and aircon were nice in the 306 and the extra room was a winner no doubt for some buyers .
Also found it a bit strange how the smaller 106 and VTS had the legs on the 306 on track tests too - maybe the 306 was too much like the ZX 16v and was just a little bit too adjustable at the rear to beat the smaller cars on a flying lap.
All great fun cars to drive though on the road though - a clean example of any of them would be a nice steer ….. although I still think I’d opt for the 106/VTS
greenarrow said:
Yeah, the 306 GTI-6 never put in stellar lap times did it. ... I think in truth the GTI-6 was one of the last hot hatches set up purely for the road and to be as adjustable as possible down a switchback B road.
This I agree with. I always found the suspension to be remarkable and very difficult to upset....and TBH I'm a little sad that the last 25 years have been all about 'ring times etc., as I don't think we're making such good road cars anymore - look at the (allegedly mainstream) i30N and Golf GTi.
- The i30N in any but the (sadly bouncy and under-controlled) Comfort mode is too stiff for a family daily*, and in N mode is (uncomfortably) stiffer and less usable than the FD2 Civic Type R, which is an utter joke as that car WAS set-up for track-work.
- The Golf GTi in Mk5 form was great on 17s and surprisingly crashy on the (nicer to look at) 18s. F-fwd to the Mk7 and the same pattern repeated, albeit stiffer - with passive suspsension and 18s it strikes a good compromise for a modern performance car but rides less well than a DC2R, which was about as hardcore as the 1990s got for fwd cars based off cooking platforms.
I think some of it is down to wheels and tyres - 35-profile tyres with stiffer sidewalls designed to cope with more weight/less-sidewall really don't help, and nor does the increase in unsprung weight from bigger wheels and brakes. But not all of it. And given our roads are getting worse, why aren't manufacturers offering a 'comfort' wheel? Or better still, recognising the issue and doing something about it...
* Which let's be honest is what 5-door hatchbacks are. Doubly so for the more practical Sportback version.
havoc said:
...And given our roads are getting worse, why aren't manufacturers offering a 'comfort' wheel? Or better still, recognising the issue and doing something about it...
I always assume this is why there are performance SUVs.Buy a VW Tiguan with the same drivetrain as a Golf GTi and you get softer suspension and chunkier tyres.
Truckosaurus said:
I always assume this is why there are performance SUVs.
Buy a VW Tiguan with the same drivetrain as a Golf GTi and you get softer suspension and chunkier tyres.
...and a worse COG and a higher driving position which isolates you from the car's behaviour more than at lower speeds, AND exacerbates the feeling of body-roll (and pitch), requiring STIFFER suspension to give the same apparent feeling of control (regardless of actual control) as the lower car. (Exhibit A: X6M suspension - it's a joke, and what's worse is BMW M-Division have worked wonders with the M5, especially in CS form, which appears to employ witchcraft)Buy a VW Tiguan with the same drivetrain as a Golf GTi and you get softer suspension and chunkier tyres.
A performance SUV is largely an oxymoron, because a performance estate, for a given size/weight/footprint/powertrain, will always be less-compromised, quicker point-to-point and better behaved.
Performance SUVs are there because there's an (image-led) market for them, not because they're better to drive. And the changes you talk about could be ridiculously-easily applied to a saloon/estate, IF someone decided there was a market for it.
Mike1990 said:
+1
It’s been quite refreshing. John Barker needs to do some YouTube for Evo.
I think he's said in the past that he doesn't like being in front of the camera. If you watch him on the old ECOTY vids he comes across as quite uncomfortable and wooden in his delivery, in contrast to his excellent writing. That's why Dickie, Henry and Jethro used to do all the EVO vids back when they were producing them regularly.It’s been quite refreshing. John Barker needs to do some YouTube for Evo.
theicemario said:
I've just watched that and I really enjoyed it as well. It is great to see EVO dipping their toe back into videos I think.
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