Why might a main dealer have a car for months before selling
Discussion
Before I read the whole thread I was about to write "If its a landrover, its probably because their sales people are hopeless !"
Been trying to buy an evoque for the OH for about a month and getting no where fast !!
Had three dealers with leading adverts at reasonable prices, when calling that car sold months ago !! But funnily enough when they find you have say £25k to spend they have another one at £26.5k which is the same spec, year and milage.
Even had one that quoted £26k and then put it up by another £1k and tried to drop the part ex value by £1.5k
Lovely
Phib
Been trying to buy an evoque for the OH for about a month and getting no where fast !!
Had three dealers with leading adverts at reasonable prices, when calling that car sold months ago !! But funnily enough when they find you have say £25k to spend they have another one at £26.5k which is the same spec, year and milage.
Even had one that quoted £26k and then put it up by another £1k and tried to drop the part ex value by £1.5k
Lovely
Phib
Nickp82 said:
Or they simply couldn't/didn't sell it! Not all dealers have strict 90 day policies. There are some who will put average profit over days in stock and some who represent more niche brands who will hold out for top money on a car as they know it is not easily replaced.
Yep, that. Big dealer groups/PLC run businesses tend to have strict used stock age limits, to help manage their cashflow mainly, which is as vital as direct profit, moreso when the numbers are big enough. Smaller, independent groups and dealers and particularly traders may well sit on cars until the buyer arrives, can be many months and in some cases with an unusual car, years. The more niche a vehicle is, the more likely it is to sit around. This is why WBAC are reasonable value for bread and butter, readily retailable stock, but throw a 10-15 year old performance car at them and they haven't a hope, so the values are derisory.
TheTwitcher said:
MitchT said:
Probably took the salesman that long to return the call of the person who was interested in buying it.
Cost of the phone call could easily wipe out the dealer's profit on the car, if you believe some of the things written on here...
M4cruiser said:
I had the same thought about a Nissan Leaf which has done only 5 miles since March. Not 5K, but just 5.
Mot in March - mileage 24764.
On sale now: Mileage 24769.
NX14WFP, Red Acenta, on sale at £9,200 on Autotrader.
Any suggestions as to what's happened to this one?
If it's been owned by anyone like Mrs Herbs, they probably tidied up and misplaced the plug........Mot in March - mileage 24764.
On sale now: Mileage 24769.
NX14WFP, Red Acenta, on sale at £9,200 on Autotrader.
Any suggestions as to what's happened to this one?
8V085 said:
daemon said:
No. This is unsubstantiated myth being propagated as fact on the internet.
Cars may be being grouped and held for certain auction types but there is absolutely no stock piling of cars to prevent a glut. There is no glut. Simple maths would tell you that. 2.69 million new cars sold last year, and there are 36.7 million cars on UK roads. So thats just 7% of the total car pool. Old cars getting scrapped at the other end, etc means the market pretty much absorbs that 7% injection per year.
Someone must have put a substantial effort to come up with that analysis you just summarised here. Do you have a link?Cars may be being grouped and held for certain auction types but there is absolutely no stock piling of cars to prevent a glut. There is no glut. Simple maths would tell you that. 2.69 million new cars sold last year, and there are 36.7 million cars on UK roads. So thats just 7% of the total car pool. Old cars getting scrapped at the other end, etc means the market pretty much absorbs that 7% injection per year.
daemon said:
I did - with just two minutes effort. Google "new cars sold uk 2016" and "total amount of cars in uk" and that gets you the two figures
I'd be interested to know the inflation-adjusted average cost of new cars sold year-on-year. Again though it would be a misleading and easily manipulated figure.M4cruiser said:
I had the same thought about a Nissan Leaf which has done only 5 miles since March. Not 5K, but just 5.
Mot in March - mileage 24764.
On sale now: Mileage 24769.
NX14WFP, Red Acenta, on sale at £9,200 on Autotrader.
Any suggestions as to what's happened to this one?
Maybe used as a. Our test car?
Mot in March - mileage 24764.
On sale now: Mileage 24769.
NX14WFP, Red Acenta, on sale at £9,200 on Autotrader.
Any suggestions as to what's happened to this one?
Maybe used as a. Our test car?
r11co said:
daemon said:
No. This is unsubstantiated myth being propagated as fact on the internet.
Cars may be being grouped and held for certain auction types but there is absolutely no stock piling of cars to prevent a glut. There is no glut. Simple maths would tell you that. 2.69 million new cars sold last year, and there are 36.7 million cars on UK roads. So thats just 7% of the total car pool. Old cars getting scrapped at the other end, etc means the market pretty much absorbs that 7% injection per year.
Not the place for this discussion, but generalised numbers are meaningless in the context of 'good' lease deals (the kind that get posted about elsewhere in here) that lead to large sign-ups for a particular make and model. All those cars will end up back in the dealer system around the same time and if they all ended up on the 'approved used' forecourts at that same time the deficit between their GFV's and resale value would increase drastically.Cars may be being grouped and held for certain auction types but there is absolutely no stock piling of cars to prevent a glut. There is no glut. Simple maths would tell you that. 2.69 million new cars sold last year, and there are 36.7 million cars on UK roads. So thats just 7% of the total car pool. Old cars getting scrapped at the other end, etc means the market pretty much absorbs that 7% injection per year.
Basic business.
It might be true that the overall numbers of cars around is fairly static, but this is about changing purchasing habits in order to inflate values. so tight control of supply and demand is key to this.
PS. You analysis doesn't include an actual figure of cars being scrapped - you've just weasled a number that sounds credible!
Edited by r11co on Wednesday 22 November 07:23
If you search for 1 year old Passats theres a load of ex lease ones around which have driven down values. You can buy a Passat for less than an equivalent Superb because of it.
Cars will be graded when they return off lease or PCP. Grade A cars are usually offered to franchised dealers first, Grade B to supermarkets, Grade C to open auction. These happen periodically around the country.
With regards to specific lease deals, these cars will be registered across several months and even though the "headline" deals may be amazing there probably arent really that many cars behind the deal. I remember reading that "the Golf R" deal that everyone cites was only something like 200 cars. Not a big amount in the grand scheme of things.
Also pretty much all cars drop in value every month. Therefore having 10,000 cars sitting in a field for six months will only result in 10,000 x6 months of extra depreciation.
Also there are many hundreds of leasing companies - it would take a massive buy in / cartel approach for them all to hold back stock to drum up demand. Common sense would tell you that the quicker they dispose of them, the quicker they recover capital to reinvest. Thats not to say they might group car types / grades and offer them at specific options, but for the avoidance of doubt, there is no mass conspiracy to "drip feed" cars on to the market to try to influence demand.
r11co said:
daemon said:
I did - with just two minutes effort. Google "new cars sold uk 2016" and "total amount of cars in uk" and that gets you the two figures
I'd be interested to know the inflation-adjusted average cost of new cars sold year-on-year. Again though it would be a misleading and easily manipulated figure.Glasgowrob said:
StrNge things do happen in the motortrade the other half bought a ford eco sport a couple of years ago brand new but built over 12 months previously
I found that one strange a couple of months yes but over a year in storage
Probably built to keep a production line moving, released in to the available pool of new cars to dealers, never bought in that specific spec by a customer, then sold on to a dealer as part of a job lot of new cars.I found that one strange a couple of months yes but over a year in storage
You see it quite often on new cars - cheaper to keep a production line / factory running and building cars that they dont have specific orders for than try to shut down for several weeks.
r11co said:
Not the place for this discussion, but generalised numbers are meaningless in the context of 'good' lease deals (the kind that get posted about elsewhere in here) that lead to large sign-ups for a particular make and model. All those cars will end up back in the dealer system around the same time and if they all ended up on the 'approved used' forecourts at that same time the deficit between their GFV's and resale value would increase drastically.
Basic business.
It might be true that the overall numbers of cars around is fairly static, but this is about changing purchasing habits in order to inflate values. so tight control of supply and demand is key to this.
PS. You analysis doesn't include an actual figure of cars being scrapped - you've just weasled a number that sounds credible!
Bemused that you're challenging my view, rather than substantiating your original "facts" Basic business.
It might be true that the overall numbers of cars around is fairly static, but this is about changing purchasing habits in order to inflate values. so tight control of supply and demand is key to this.
PS. You analysis doesn't include an actual figure of cars being scrapped - you've just weasled a number that sounds credible!
Edited by r11co on Wednesday 22 November 07:23
daemon said:
8V085 said:
daemon said:
No. This is unsubstantiated myth being propagated as fact on the internet.
Cars may be being grouped and held for certain auction types but there is absolutely no stock piling of cars to prevent a glut. There is no glut. Simple maths would tell you that. 2.69 million new cars sold last year, and there are 36.7 million cars on UK roads. So thats just 7% of the total car pool. Old cars getting scrapped at the other end, etc means the market pretty much absorbs that 7% injection per year.
Someone must have put a substantial effort to come up with that analysis you just summarised here. Do you have a link?Cars may be being grouped and held for certain auction types but there is absolutely no stock piling of cars to prevent a glut. There is no glut. Simple maths would tell you that. 2.69 million new cars sold last year, and there are 36.7 million cars on UK roads. So thats just 7% of the total car pool. Old cars getting scrapped at the other end, etc means the market pretty much absorbs that 7% injection per year.
8V085 said:
daemon said:
8V085 said:
daemon said:
No. This is unsubstantiated myth being propagated as fact on the internet.
Cars may be being grouped and held for certain auction types but there is absolutely no stock piling of cars to prevent a glut. There is no glut. Simple maths would tell you that. 2.69 million new cars sold last year, and there are 36.7 million cars on UK roads. So thats just 7% of the total car pool. Old cars getting scrapped at the other end, etc means the market pretty much absorbs that 7% injection per year.
Someone must have put a substantial effort to come up with that analysis you just summarised here. Do you have a link?Cars may be being grouped and held for certain auction types but there is absolutely no stock piling of cars to prevent a glut. There is no glut. Simple maths would tell you that. 2.69 million new cars sold last year, and there are 36.7 million cars on UK roads. So thats just 7% of the total car pool. Old cars getting scrapped at the other end, etc means the market pretty much absorbs that 7% injection per year.
Heres the reality - i've worked in or around the motor trade for 25+ years. I've worked in finance for maybe 10 years too. I've also dealt with big auction houses too over that time. I know 100 odd people in or around the motor trade currently. At no point EVER have i seen or have i spoken to ANYONE who has has seen or believes that car finance companies are drip feeding cars on to the used market.
Ask ANY car salesman - theres a thread running and i asked it on there to prove the point - and they will tell you IT DOESNT HAPPEN.
Its an internet myth perpetuated by people who like a conspiracy theory rather than look at the reality of the situation. The reality of the situation is that finance companies dispose of the cars as soon as they can, backed up by the FACT that new car sales only amounts to some 7% of the total market generally which is nowhere near a value whereby 1, 2 and 3 year old cars would swamp the market.
Rather than try to "debunk" what i'm saying, try finding HARD EVIDENCE that it happens if its true.
Edited by daemon on Wednesday 22 November 13:10
daemon said:
So using actual published figures to demonstrate the number of new cars sold represents a very small percentage of the overall cars on the road in the UK is purporting another unsubstantiated myth is it?
Of course it is, since you picked up some random numbers rather than properly looking into what they represent. Plus saying that "Old cars getting scrapped at the other end, etc means the market pretty much absorbs that 7% injection per year." literally means that the numbers of cars going in is equal the number of cars going out leaving the total numbers of cars at the same level...
Plus x2 knowing some traders and being in a trade doesn't mean you definitely know what is going since only those on top of have an idea of what the long term plan is. You're presenting your speculation on subject which is as good as what the side that you tried to ridicule does.
The patronising, authoritative "know it all" tone of your original message backed by statements that are borderline ridiculous cracked me up hence I had to respond. I'm sorry if I rattled your cage.
8V085 said:
daemon said:
So using actual published figures to demonstrate the number of new cars sold represents a very small percentage of the overall cars on the road in the UK is purporting another unsubstantiated myth is it?
Of course it is, since you picked up some random numbers rather than properly looking into what they represent. Plus saying that "Old cars getting scrapped at the other end, etc means the market pretty much absorbs that 7% injection per year." literally means that the numbers of cars going in is equal the number of cars going out leaving the total numbers of cars at the same level...
Plus x2 knowing some traders and being in a trade doesn't mean you definitely know what is going since only those on top of have an idea of what the long term plan is. You're presenting your speculation on subject which is as good as what the side that you tried to ridicule does.
The patronising, authoritative "know it all" tone of your original message backed by statements that are borderline ridiculous cracked me up hence I had to respond. I'm sorry if I rattled your cage.
It comes up again and again, is repeated as fact when it isn't and noone ever proves it occurs.
Bemused the myth perpetuated repeatedly as "fact" never has any substance behind it.
Your "argument" is like someone saying "Its a little known fact that pigs can fly", people giving a reasoned response as to why they cant such as "noone has ever seen a pig fly, its not in the pigs interest to fly, pigs dont have the capability to fly, etc, etc" then the originator criticising the reasoning by saying "oh thats just an opinion!".
if it happens PROVE IT. Otherwise let's not perpetuate the nonsense as FACT.
Its not up to me to prove it DOESNT happen, its up to the people repeating it to prove it DOES.
Edited by daemon on Wednesday 22 November 14:07
Edited by daemon on Wednesday 22 November 14:19
Edited by daemon on Wednesday 22 November 14:20
daemon said:
You didn't rattle my cage.
It comes up again and again, is repeated as fact when it isn't and noone ever proves it occurs.
Bemused the myth perpetuated repeatedly as "fact" never has any substance behind it.
Your "argument" is like someone saying "I believe that pigs can fly", people giving a reasoned response as to why they cant such as "noone has ever seen a pig fly, its not in the pigs interest to fly, pigs dont have the capability to fly, etc, etc" then the originator criticising the reasoning by saying "oh thats just an opinion!".
if it happens PROVE IT. Otherwise let's not perpetuate the nonsense as FACT.
Its not up to me to prove it DOESNT happen, its up to the people repeating it to prove it DOES.
The sIt comes up again and again, is repeated as fact when it isn't and noone ever proves it occurs.
Bemused the myth perpetuated repeatedly as "fact" never has any substance behind it.
Your "argument" is like someone saying "I believe that pigs can fly", people giving a reasoned response as to why they cant such as "noone has ever seen a pig fly, its not in the pigs interest to fly, pigs dont have the capability to fly, etc, etc" then the originator criticising the reasoning by saying "oh thats just an opinion!".
if it happens PROVE IT. Otherwise let's not perpetuate the nonsense as FACT.
Its not up to me to prove it DOESNT happen, its up to the people repeating it to prove it DOES.
tstorm that would unleash if these speculations were found out to be true would be immense. Therefore if these things were true it's obviously in everyone's interest to keep it on the DL until the st hits the fan. That's what the NDA's are for. This is obviously a speculation.But since neither you nor I know what exactly is going on the only way to judge is by looking at numbers and understanding the basics of free market like supply and demand, perfect information and no barriers to entry or exit and what happens to the market when you oversaturate it with too much of the same product at the same time, especially if you want to feed it with even more of the same new crap. This is nothing like saying "I believe that pigs can fly" since that's what you suggested.
So my point is, unless you know for sure (big up Nico Rosberg) avoid making absolute statements.
8V085 said:
The ststorm that would unleash if these speculations were found out to be true would be immense. Therefore if these things were true it's obviously in everyone's interest to keep it on the DL until the st hits the fan. That's what the NDA's are for. This is obviously a speculation.
Ah right.tstorm that would unleash if these speculations were found out to be true would be immense. Therefore if these things were true it's obviously in everyone's interest to keep it on the DL until the st hits the fan. That's what the NDA's are for. This is obviously a speculation.So not at all like a conspiracy theory then.
Yeah, that'll be it.
daemon said:
8V085 said:
The ststorm that would unleash if these speculations were found out to be true would be immense. Therefore if these things were true it's obviously in everyone's interest to keep it on the DL until the st hits the fan. That's what the NDA's are for. This is obviously a speculation.
Ah right.tstorm that would unleash if these speculations were found out to be true would be immense. Therefore if these things were true it's obviously in everyone's interest to keep it on the DL until the st hits the fan. That's what the NDA's are for. This is obviously a speculation.So not at all like a conspiracy theory then.
Yeah, that'll be it.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff