RE: Prior Convictions: Urus looming

RE: Prior Convictions: Urus looming

Author
Discussion

AndrewD

6,799 posts

222 months

Saturday 25th November 2017
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A lot of talk of Range Rovers and Cayennes but the starting price of this car is £180k so it will be over 200k quite easily with options. It is a completely different market to the majority of RR and Cayennes.

I can't quite work out the market for these. My daily is a 991.2 Turbo S and I would never swap for an Urus. The Porsche is black and blends in but brings a smile to your face when you have the opportunity to exercise the car a little. This is the complete polar opposite in so many respects. And surely nobody with kids or dogs is going to put them in a 200k+ car on a daily basis as it will get trashed.

Sure there is a very small market who won't buy it for any real use but that can't be the business case.

Logic aside, I love Lamborghini for their more crazy side. They aren't up themselves like Ferrari in my humble opinion, they are about fun and silliness still. But stuff like this is slowly eroding the brand. I'm not even sure the Performante was a good idea - they are trying too hard to be serious, chasing Ring times and journalistic praise and car of the year type of thing. Sign of the times I guess.

Lambo FirstBlood

642 posts

117 months

Saturday 25th November 2017
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AndrewD said:
A lot of talk of Range Rovers and Cayennes but the starting price of this car is £180k so it will be over 200k quite easily with options. It is a completely different market to the majority of RR and Cayennes.
It’s not a different market. There just aren’t that many products for these customers to chose from yet. Land Rover have sold plenty of £150k + Range Rovers to customers who would have paid considerably more if they thought it bought them more bragging rights or exclusivity.

Many of the first Bentaygas were over £250 K.


AndrewD said:
And surely nobody with kids or dogs is going to put them in a 200k+ car on a daily basis as it will get trashed.
Oh they will mate, not in every corner of the map but in certain enclaves, they are already doing it in their drones in the most expensive SUV’s you can buy. As soon as more expensive models come along, they’ll be using those in the same way.

Mr E

18,370 posts

197 months

Saturday 25th November 2017
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Quickmoose said:
can go either way can't it?
A car engineered to do 200 will feel solid and totally in control at 70...that's good
But a car engineered that way is less likely to be as involving or as exciting...that's not good
A car engineered to perform at 71mph will be pretty lively/exciting at 70....that's good
It will also be on the brink of what it can handle...which is not good.
The car I’m picking up next week has a maximum speed of 87mph. I’m almost certain it will be very, very dull at 70mph. I’m fairly certain it’ll be dull flat out to be honest.

The Elise feels alive going round a car park.

swisstoni

7,378 posts

217 months

Saturday 25th November 2017
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So what? If some exotic chavs want to hand their money in, I’m all for it. They clearly don’t know what to do with it.

Meanwhile I’m quite entertained by how designers of various sporty marques are tackling the need to go against the grain and make a 4x4.

This one looks like it might be quite attractive.

PunterCam

805 posts

133 months

Saturday 25th November 2017
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What a tacky, bland money grab. It's utterly lacking in every way. It'll look ste, because all of these pointy SUVs look ste, and you'll know you're just driving an Audi with a body kit and some stickers. fking horrific.

Sums up how thick people have become.
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AndrewD

6,799 posts

222 months

Saturday 25th November 2017
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Lambo FirstBlood said:
Oh they will mate, not in every corner of the map but in certain enclaves, they are already doing it in their drones in the most expensive SUV’s you can buy. As soon as more expensive models come along, they’ll be using those in the same way.
Hi there matey. Maybe you're right let's see. Emphatically not the type of car for me! The wife even swapped out of her RR for a Touareg as it was "too posh".

Has the Bentayaga sold many? I get the impression there are always deals to shift metal at Bentley.

firebird350

266 posts

118 months

Saturday 25th November 2017
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Looks to me as though VAG has finally discovered that, once upon a time, Lamborghini used to make tractors...

dunnoreally

252 posts

46 months

Sunday 26th November 2017
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I'm gonna stick my neck out and say this will probably be pretty good. It won't go on track like 911gt3 or off-road like a Unimog, but no-one expects it to. It only needs to be pretty alright at both to surpass expectations, and I'm sure it'll have a pricetag that buys a lot of "pretty alright".

Not my thing at all, still, but it will absolutely do everything it sets out to.

skyrover

11,970 posts

142 months

Sunday 26th November 2017
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needs the lambo v10 or 12, otherwise what makes it distinct from the sea of other SUV's?

Audemars

406 posts

36 months

Monday 27th November 2017
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Porsche Cars = Ugly, especially the Cayenne/Macan
Audi Qx, BMW Xx, Range Rover = Chav cars that are horrendously unreliable.

The above is why there will be a market for the Urus.

Quickmoose

3,819 posts

61 months

Tuesday 28th November 2017
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Audemars said:
Porsche Cars = Ugly, especially the Cayenne/Macan
Audi Qx, BMW Xx, Range Rover = Chav cars that are horrendously unreliable.

The above is why there will be a market for the Urus.
rofl

cmoose

43,605 posts

167 months

Tuesday 28th November 2017
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It's a ludicrous car, but judging it by rational standards is pretty silly, too.

It's what people want and so they built it and it's not a lot more complicated than that in terms of the basic proposition of the car. Beyond that it gets quite complicated as the whole thing is bound up in silly status issues, so a Lambo that's got the same hardware as a zillion other VW group cars will need to have it's on-paper spec carefully massaged.

It won't do for it to have the same power as other SUVs in the group using the same engine, 'box and platform, as it's a Lambo etc. It'll have to be quite carefully positioned to negotiate various nonsense requirements from the customer base. But so it is for any luxury good. Money doesn't buy taste.

BigR

121 posts

100 months

Tuesday 28th November 2017
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HighwayStar said:
Ninja59 said:
Sorry it is already ruined without having at least a V10, but more so V12.

It is just going to be another VAG product where the 4.0 V8 pops up again (not that it is a bad engine, but is just nothing special considering this is a Lambo). Even if they say otherwise how can engine have exactly the same capacity and setup, coincidence? Bo**ocks.

Also I think the Urus struggles with the very same issue as Cayenne in that it tries to integrate the design elements of its sister cars in the range and just looks frankly odd.
A V10 or V12 is not really the point of this car though... Lambo are expecting sell loads of these to customers who have Cayennes, Q7s, X5s or whatever as their daily driver. They are looking at 3000 sales annually. They wouldn't get near those numbers with a V10 or V12. It makes more sense to use the 4.0 V8 to do the miles. Straight from the Porsche playbook.
Forgive me, but "selling loads" to customers whose cars are at best half the price (Urus is expected to be around £190k), and with 3000 sales annually? Neither are they going to sell loads and not to many in the Cayenne / Q7 / X5 (in particular) brackets I would think.

That aside, the pros and cons of Lamborghini doing this is a bit like the argument of Maserati doing a diesel engine in a saloon car to rival a 5 series etc. This can be as much about assured survival rather than some rose-tinted view of a past world - one where the likes of Lamborghini and Maserati forever were on the point of going under. Sometimes manufacturers have to do things which might not play to the purist, but do ensure their survival - not least so that they can still pump out mental V12's with ridiculous styling. And Godspeed to them!

Quickmoose

3,819 posts

61 months

Tuesday 28th November 2017
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The above is true to a point
But Lambo is owned by one of the largest car manufacturers ......in the woorrlldd....
They ain't going under....
Not like they and others have been threatened with in days gone by...

PhantomPH

Original Poster:

3,008 posts

163 months

Tuesday 28th November 2017
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Surely the bottom line is that every car manufacturer is a business. And businesses like to make money. And they have identified that they can make MORE money by building a new product in a different sector.

As someone has already stated, Lamborghini started off building tractors. By branching out into a new sector and a new product, we have Lamborghini cars. Then they made another leap by essentially inventing the supercar (Miura).

Given that, you could argue that traditionally Lamborghini have a track record of moving into new market areas so this is entirely in keeping with their heritage.

Just because 'you' don't like something, does not render it somehow pointless or not worthwhile producing. Hell, I cannot for the life of me get my head around handbags costing £12k...but some do. Live and let live, I say.

Quickmoose

3,819 posts

61 months

Tuesday 28th November 2017
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I think of a few brands that don’t subscribe to your idea of the bottom line....

cmoose

43,605 posts

167 months

Tuesday 28th November 2017
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PhantomPH said:
Given that, you could argue that traditionally Lamborghini have a track record of moving into new market areas so this is entirely in keeping with their heritage.
No, you couldn't argue that credibly.

It happened once in the early 1960s when Lamborghini as an entity, the car industry and the car market in general was a completely different place and has basically zero bearing on Lamborghini today as part of the VW Group taking the MLB SUV architecture and doing their own marketing differentiated respin.

Heritage is usually PR bks, but if you insisted on appealing to heritage, you'd be better off pretending the LM002 was relevant to this new car. Which it isn't, it doesn't remotely have anything to do with the Urus. But the notion probably has some marketing legs.