RE: Next BMW M3 spy shots
Tuesday 19th December 2017
What with the arguments about the odd noise the standard car makes, those weird orange bits on the GTS and just how expensive the CS is, it's easy to forget that the regular BMW M3 was launched more than three and half years ago. It means that the earliest cars are now teetering temptingly close to £30K, and also that the next M3 isn't too far off.
Can you guess what it is yet?These are the first spy shots of the sixth-generation, 'G80' M3, due to arrive at some point in 2020. According to Autocar it is going to use the new 'CLAR' architecture also seen in the 5 Series, but won't use the carbon core seen in the 7 Series and i8. Gets expensive then, see? The same argument applies to both all-wheel drive and four-wheel steer as well, the M3's more junior ranking in the M hierarchy ensuring that it won't be quite the techfest of an M5 or M760Li.
The big arches are coming, right?These spy shots don't reveal a great deal, although perhaps we should simply be glad in BMW's current situation that the M3 is remaining a saloon and not becoming a two-door SUV or something. Note on this car the four exhaust pipes, some black painted Comp Pack wheels and four very chunky brake discs. Other than that we're seeing a 3 Series, but do let us know if anything has been missed...
Next BMW M3 spy shots
New 'G80' version is due in 2020 - here's your first look
Can you guess what it is yet?
A technology that could well feature in the next M3 is the water injection system seen in the M4 GTS, if the packaging issues around shoving a water tank in the boot (in a regular production car) can be solved. The engine is expected to be an evolution of the S55 twin-turbo straight-six currently used; a hybrid is said to be unlikely, but then a replacement model can't have less power than any previous one - remember than a CS is currently 460hp, so shall we call it 475hp for the G80?
The big arches are coming, right?
With some time before the M3 reaches the production stage, plenty could change in the next couple of years. What would you like to see from the F80 replacement? The current car has proved pretty divisive, so there must surely be some recommendations forthcoming... We'll suggest improved steering as a starter - what about you?
[Spyshots: S. Baldauf/SB-Medien, additional info from Autocar]
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Discussion
It's quite ridiculous to say it but 475HP puts it behind the Giulia and C63S of today's crop - in 3 years time that's going to be well out of date. I'd expect a tickled Giulia by then and also a tweak on the C Class which will go to 550PS + comfortably.
Admittedly I've not driven the current M3 but reviews say it struggles with traction. If I were BMW I'd take the weight penalty of the M5's 4WD system and go to 520PS which should have it keeping up with the other 2 without treading on the M5s toes.
Admittedly I've not driven the current M3 but reviews say it struggles with traction. If I were BMW I'd take the weight penalty of the M5's 4WD system and go to 520PS which should have it keeping up with the other 2 without treading on the M5s toes.
Uncle Ron said:
It's quite ridiculous to say it but 475HP puts it behind the Giulia and C63S of today's crop - in 3 years time that's going to be well out of date. I'd expect a tickled Giulia by then and also a tweak on the C Class which will go to 550PS + comfortably.
Admittedly I've not driven the current M3 but reviews say it struggles with traction. If I were BMW I'd take the weight penalty of the M5's 4WD system and go to 520PS which should have it keeping up with the other 2 without treading on the M5s toes.
But even if it had 600PS - would that automatically make it better? I think not.Admittedly I've not driven the current M3 but reviews say it struggles with traction. If I were BMW I'd take the weight penalty of the M5's 4WD system and go to 520PS which should have it keeping up with the other 2 without treading on the M5s toes.
Its just Top Trumps on a grand scale.
When you're past say 300PS on a road car, in the vast majority of most people's normal road conditions, this obsession with more and more power is largely just a vanity issue.
GTEYE said:
Uncle Ron said:
It's quite ridiculous to say it but 475HP puts it behind the Giulia and C63S of today's crop - in 3 years time that's going to be well out of date. I'd expect a tickled Giulia by then and also a tweak on the C Class which will go to 550PS + comfortably.
Admittedly I've not driven the current M3 but reviews say it struggles with traction. If I were BMW I'd take the weight penalty of the M5's 4WD system and go to 520PS which should have it keeping up with the other 2 without treading on the M5s toes.
But even if it had 600PS - would that automatically make it better? I think not.Admittedly I've not driven the current M3 but reviews say it struggles with traction. If I were BMW I'd take the weight penalty of the M5's 4WD system and go to 520PS which should have it keeping up with the other 2 without treading on the M5s toes.
Its just Top Trumps on a grand scale.
When you're past say 300PS on a road car, in the vast majority of most people's normal road conditions, this obsession with more and more power is largely just a vanity issue.
If they kept the power the same but shed 150kg, went back to Hydraulically assisted steering and made the car better to drive would it sell more? I think not!
Uncle Ron said:
It's quite ridiculous to say it but 475HP puts it behind the Giulia and C63S of today's crop - in 3 years time that's going to be well out of date. I'd expect a tickled Giulia by then and also a tweak on the C Class which will go to 550PS + comfortably.
Admittedly I've not driven the current M3 but reviews say it struggles with traction. If I were BMW I'd take the weight penalty of the M5's 4WD system and go to 520PS which should have it keeping up with the other 2 without treading on the M5s toes.
It's not the BMW way... yes M cars have loads of power but they have never competed on absolute power with their rivals. The focus has been the handling dynamic which is where they would always prevail over Merc and Audi. They've had to have a few stabs at it with the M3/4. Admittedly I've not driven the current M3 but reviews say it struggles with traction. If I were BMW I'd take the weight penalty of the M5's 4WD system and go to 520PS which should have it keeping up with the other 2 without treading on the M5s toes.
Hopefully they'll be more on point with the next one.
Uncle Ron said:
It's quite ridiculous to say it but 475HP puts it behind the Giulia and C63S of today's crop - in 3 years time that's going to be well out of date. I'd expect a tickled Giulia by then and also a tweak on the C Class which will go to 550PS + comfortably.
Admittedly I've not driven the current M3 but reviews say it struggles with traction. If I were BMW I'd take the weight penalty of the M5's 4WD system and go to 520PS which should have it keeping up with the other 2 without treading on the M5s toes.
Because a car that can already hit 60 in 4 seconds and 100 in 8.6 seconds needs more power? It's more than fast enough.Admittedly I've not driven the current M3 but reviews say it struggles with traction. If I were BMW I'd take the weight penalty of the M5's 4WD system and go to 520PS which should have it keeping up with the other 2 without treading on the M5s toes.
Tim bo said:
Uncle Ron said:
It's quite ridiculous to say it but 475HP puts it behind the Giulia and C63S of today's crop
Well the M3 would be equated to the C63, not the S variant. As such the C63 produces 476HP, so the new M3 is just 1 HP behind.Both a mate and I had the F80 M3 and the M4 respectively and both of us got rid after around 5 months. The last thing the F8X needs is more power, the problem was is was just utterly boring to drive (both were DCT). Doing 100mph felt like doing 50mph, and without any real feeling at all. It needs to be more involving to drive, and without the stupid piped engine noise. My F80 was such a crushing dissapointment after owning an E46 M3 many years ago. Especially as the F80 is a stunning looking car.
Rear traction issues were sorted with the MY15 revamp, but you do have 425bhp going through the rear wheels, so what do you expect....
Rear traction issues were sorted with the MY15 revamp, but you do have 425bhp going through the rear wheels, so what do you expect....
jon-yprpe said:
Both a mate and I had the F80 M3 and the M4 respectively and both of us got rid after around 5 months. The last thing the F8X needs is more power, the problem was is was just utterly boring to drive (both were DCT). Doing 100mph felt like doing 50mph, and without any real feeling at all. It needs to be more involving to drive, and without the stupid piped engine noise. My F80 was such a crushing dissapointment after owning an E46 M3 many years ago. Especially as the F80 is a stunning looking car.
Rear traction issues were sorted with the MY15 revamp, but you do have 425bhp going through the rear wheels, so what do you expect....
Off topic but...............interested to know if you had any tramlining issues with the E46 M3? Presume it was running 19s?Rear traction issues were sorted with the MY15 revamp, but you do have 425bhp going through the rear wheels, so what do you expect....
Uncle Ron said:
GTEYE said:
Uncle Ron said:
It's quite ridiculous to say it but 475HP puts it behind the Giulia and C63S of today's crop - in 3 years time that's going to be well out of date. I'd expect a tickled Giulia by then and also a tweak on the C Class which will go to 550PS + comfortably.
Admittedly I've not driven the current M3 but reviews say it struggles with traction. If I were BMW I'd take the weight penalty of the M5's 4WD system and go to 520PS which should have it keeping up with the other 2 without treading on the M5s toes.
But even if it had 600PS - would that automatically make it better? I think not.Admittedly I've not driven the current M3 but reviews say it struggles with traction. If I were BMW I'd take the weight penalty of the M5's 4WD system and go to 520PS which should have it keeping up with the other 2 without treading on the M5s toes.
Its just Top Trumps on a grand scale.
When you're past say 300PS on a road car, in the vast majority of most people's normal road conditions, this obsession with more and more power is largely just a vanity issue.
If they kept the power the same but shed 150kg, went back to Hydraulically assisted steering and made the car better to drive would it sell more? I think not!
HighwayStar said:
It's not the BMW way... yes M cars have loads of power but they have never competed on absolute power with their rivals. The focus has been the handling dynamic which is where they would always prevail over Merc and Audi.
Exactly this. Audis have always been compromised by the position of the engine while more 4WD traction focused ... Mercs have always been heavy, luxury focused cars with mountains of torque but no feel and a relative lack of cornering ability. BMW have historically been less preoccupied with big numbers and more with the overall dynamic driving experience.I do find it funny when people say everything needs more power, to the point now where an SUV/Luxury Saloon and hot hatch will rival a Lambo on a straight. People seem to forget that corners exist too, so maybe people should stop asking for more and more power and start to concern themselves with wanting better handling, maybe steering that doesn't feel dead and disconnected? I find it hard to believe that anyone here would drive an E92 M3 and say "God that's underpowered" or even an E46, 475 is more than enough. 320 was more than enough, get over on paper figures.
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