Engine swap to a smaller one?

[lord trumpton]

Red9555 said:

Toyoda said:

Obvious troll is obvious

Please go away.

Ahh the irony

[J4CKO]

Anything is possible but it is generally a colossal pain to do in practice. it may just be a case swapping one for the other but then you find stuff like,

One model has an extra engine mount the other doesnt have or different front subframe

The ECU is different and has a different loom/connectors/location/clocks

Fuel pump/tank/injectors may be wrong for the replacement engine

Engine has different reluctor wheel on the flywheel, so signals incorrect

Radiator hoses are in different positions, ditto heater hoses.

One may have a mechanical speedo drive the other electronic.

Exhaust is different

Different Alternator

DIfferent starter

One could be a cable change gearbox, the other rod based

You get the correct gearbox, but it has different sized driveshaft flanges

Air Con compressor possibly different


It may be just plug and play, but then you have a car that is neither one thing nor another, even if you insure it as standard (which is illegal) it counts as modified so will be expensive and then selling it on could be difficult.

[Red9555]

Plate spinner said:

It’d be cheaper to buy the owner engined model and then retro fit body kit, wheels, suspension, interior etc.

Either way will cost you more than the fuel savings though I would suspect.

The MK6 Zetec S has the same body kit as the ST. It's just I want a white one but they are all trashed.

[Swampy1982]

Red9555 said:

The MK6 Zetec S has the same body kit as the ST. It's just I want a white one but they are all trashed.

What all of them? have you tried them all then?

this thread is frankly crazy

[carinaman]

Red9555 said:

Plate spinner said:

It’d be cheaper to buy the owner engined model and then retro fit body kit, wheels, suspension, interior etc.

Either way will cost you more than the fuel savings though I would suspect.

The MK6 Zetec S has the same body kit as the ST. It's just I want a white one but they are all trashed.

How much to wrap one white?

[Plate spinner]

Red9555 said:

Plate spinner said:

It’d be cheaper to buy the owner engined model and then retro fit body kit, wheels, suspension, interior etc.

Either way will cost you more than the fuel savings though I would suspect.

The MK6 Zetec S has the same body kit as the ST. It's just I want a white one but they are all trashed.

Well do your project then.

[mwstewart]

Nice idea but there's a lot of work and expense in it, given the end goal is to save money.

[carinaman]

Quote form at the bottom so you can ask how much to wrap a Fiesta:

http://www.itsawrapuk.com/car-wrapping-car-wraps.p...

[Cold]

Keep the car as it is but place a block of wood behind the throttle pedal.

[chris285]

J4CKO said:

Anything is possible but it is generally a colossal pain to do in practice. it may just be a case swapping one for the other but then you find stuff like,

One model has an extra engine mount the other doesnt have or different front subframe

The ECU is different and has a different loom/connectors/location/clocks

Fuel pump/tank/injectors may be wrong for the replacement engine

Engine has different reluctor wheel on the flywheel, so signals incorrect

Radiator hoses are in different positions, ditto heater hoses.

One may have a mechanical speedo drive the other electronic.

Exhaust is different

Different Alternator

DIfferent starter

One could be a cable change gearbox, the other rod based

You get the correct gearbox, but it has different sized driveshaft flanges

Air Con compressor possibly different


It may be just plug and play, but then you have a car that is neither one thing nor another, even if you insure it as standard (which is illegal) it counts as modified so will be expensive and then selling it on could be difficult.

This, not forgetting if you are not doing it yourself you can probably kiss that saving on buying one to start with

[poing]

Red9555 said:

I would like a zetec s in white but the only ones I'm seeing are crap or over priced. There's a white ST near me that has an engine problem and is around £1000. The engine is around £300 even the MK7 one's are quiet cheap. So the engine and car would cost around £1500 and then add the cost of replacing the engine on top. The average price of a high spec MK6 Zetec S is £2600.

But it seems like it would still be classed as a fiesta st and all the cost with it. The reason why I don't want a Fiesta ST is I read things on this forum like terrible fuel economy and the road tax is £240 which is a lot for a small car.

I have owned a MK6 Zetec S before and got 35mpg around town and 45+mpg on the highway.

You would probably be the same road tax unless you can get the DVLA to re-grade it which you probably can't. Unless you have the skill to do this yourself you'd be another £1000 for the conversion in labour costs.

How many miles do you do a year? The fuel difference per year would likely be less than £1000. I do 12,000 miles a year and the current car is 10mpg worse than the last car, it costs me between £40 and £50 per month more for fuel. I'd rather have the extra power than the money.

Buy the best condition ST you can afford then get it painted/wrapped in white.

[Red9555]

poing said:

You would probably be the same road tax unless you can get the DVLA to re-grade it which you probably can't. Unless you have the skill to do this yourself you'd be another £1000 for the conversion in labour costs.

How many miles do you do a year? The fuel difference per year would likely be less than £1000. I do 12,000 miles a year and the current car is 10mpg worse than the last car, it costs me between £40 and £50 per month more for fuel. I'd rather have the extra power than the money.

Buy the best condition ST you can afford then get it painted/wrapped in white.

I know it's a silly idea but I thought the costs would be cheaper as it's a cheap car with parts easily sourced.

There are quite a few White Fiesta ST's for sale so they are common. I just don't know if I will be able to afford running one as the road tax is high, fuel costs would be high as I would only be driving it around town. I've read on this forum that people get like 25mpg.

I have the money to buy a better car but a small cheap car is all I need.

[RoverP6B]

I'd be very surprised if you didn't at least double your spend on the car by carrying out this idiotic swap. Jesus wept.

If you want something cheap to run and tax, buy an old LPG-converted barge predating the introduction of CO2-linked Vehicle Excise Duty.

[ThunderSpook]

Red9555 said:

I know it's a silly idea but I thought the costs would be cheaper as it's a cheap car with parts easily sourced.

There are quite a few White Fiesta ST's for sale so they are common. I just don't know if I will be able to afford running one as the road tax is high, fuel costs would be high as I would only be driving it around town. I've read on this forum that people get like 25mpg.

I have the money to buy a better car but a small cheap car is all I need.

That’s what happens when you just drive around town. If you want better mpg you either need to spend more time on a motorway or buy a Leaf. I highly doubt any Fiesta would get much better around town.

[Gad-Westy]

Small differences in MPG and road tax are massively overrated anyway. There are loads of fuel calculators online to do some comparisons but just to take one example, the difference between running a car for 8000 miles at avg. 35mpg vs. 40mpg is less that £200 over a year yet people will spend huge amounts of money to make these tiny savings. It's crazy. Make yourself a spreadsheet on excel and put in all costs for motoring, copy and past it a few times so you can put multiple cars in there. You'll be surprised where the costs come from. Honest projections of maintenance and depreciation tend to make small mpg differences look irrelevant.

Regarding engine conversions generally. Very occasionally, there are swaps that are near enough straight swaps. Very quick, easy and cheap. But the reality is that most of the time you need to bugger around with engine mounts, exhaust, fuel delivery, wiring harness, ECU, immobiliser, gear linkage, sometimes even clocks etc won't work. The cost of the engine itself is almost irrelevant. And when you do get it all to work, you've got something that's probably less reliable and might be full of bodged parts that cannot be re-bought if anything needs repairing and you'll have a car that costs more to insure than the ST and is nigh on un-sellable should you ever want to change it.

[Mike335i]

Red9555 said:

I know it's a silly idea but I thought the costs would be cheaper as it's a cheap car with parts easily sourced.

There are quite a few White Fiesta ST's for sale so they are common. I just don't know if I will be able to afford running one as the road tax is high, fuel costs would be high as I would only be driving it around town. I've read on this forum that people get like 25mpg.

I have the money to buy a better car but a small cheap car is all I need.

I know this was probably just a though that occurred to you and now after it has been, err, shown up up on here as a little misguided shall we say, it makes sense to not do something like this.

But I think you are looking at it the wrong way round. An ST can be fairly economical if driven very carefully. You would need self restraint, but it is still only a 1.6T. The amount of fuel used would be not much more than a naturally aspirated 1.6 if driven accordingly. Boring though.

£240 road tax is nothing really. It's a one off payment that you'll have forgotten about pretty quickly. Just be sensible and shove £20 aside every month.

Insurance would be a far bigger problem along with the cost of any conversion. You would pay a lot in labour for that job I'm sure, so even with the cheap ST and donor engine, it would be cheaper to buy a better car.

So it would just end up making a car worse for no gain. Worse, you'll have a pretend Fiesta ST. All mouth and no trousers.

The solution is to actually figure out how much an ST would actually cost over a Zetec S, no guess work or assumptions, but calculate the difference based on your circumstances. If it isn't too much, then go with the better car. If it is a big difference, forget the tinsel and shiny bits on the ST (which don't really matter) and buy a cheaper to run car.

[skyrover]

I prefer a poverty spec with big engine myself... Anyone want to give it a go.?

[Rawwr]

justanother5tar said:

was always disappointed I couldn’t get a Grey ST

Nothing says 'exciting' quite like grey.

[if in doubt]

How mechanically minded are you? Here is someone doing the better idea of sticking a bigger engine in to make a sleeper: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

I think they estimated 200 hours of work to get everything working. Which unless you're good with a spanner/electrics is going to be about £8000 at a £40 an hour average garage labour rate.

As stated, tax is £20 a month is that really unaffordable? Drive with a light right foot and you'll be fine, the accelerator isn't a switch.

[Silverbullet767]

Red9555 said:

Toyoda said:

Obvious troll is obvious

Please go away.

My sentiments exactly, this has to be the worst idea I've ever seen on pistonheads.

Here's an idea, leave the engine in, cut a hole in the floor and run like the flintstones. Upload a video to youtube and give us all a laugh.