RE: BMW M3 CS: Driven

[Wills2]

British Beef said:

Bang on.
M3 and M5 used to have a unique engine and chassis tune, with unique body parts.

Now they are just another trim level, engine has a few components changed and a tune up, gearbox the same.

Im sure a BMW boffin can detail a long list of "unique" m car features, I dont buy it.

My E39 M5 had a unique v8 engine, the one before had a unique straight 6 and the the one after a unique V10.

Perhaps ever more stringent engine emisions and tighter design criteria prohibit such design flexibility, but it just seems to me that chasing profit margin with less and less effort put into the rare halo models has turned me off the brand. I think I spot more M3s and M4s than Ford Mondeos these days!

What utter bks you clearly haven't got a clue.

[Rich_W]

WANT!

Also

WANT Money to be able to buy

[tankplanker]

SidewaysSi said:

No dingenuity at all. I look for more in a driver's car than a new M3/C63 etc can give so I do find them frustrating/disappointing. I do appreciate I have high standards though so if others are happy with a saloon car for fun then that's cool. It's just not for me.

If I wanted a family car, a big old Volvo/Mercedes/LC etc makes a far more satisfying proposition as part of a small fleet. A W126/S124/X350 etc would be joyous.

I'm in complete agreement. No way a stock M3 is going to be as good to drive at a track or track speeds as a sorted Caterham, Exige or even a Cayman. Obviously the M3 is going to be better on a long distance motorway slog, in heavy rain, sitting in traffic, shifting boxes or family about, but its still compromised for those roles compared to a big soft cruiser.

I'm certainly not saying the M3/C63/Alfa are bad sports cars, any one of those three is an amazing compromise between performance and usability, but a compromise is what they are as far more focused cars still exist.

I'm struggling to understand in the wrong car all the time sentiment. Do you not get to plan where you are going in the morning? Do you not know the weather and route you'll be going on? A crap drive in something like a Caterham to the circuit or similar awesome driving roads would seem a fair trade to me.

[Ares]

SidewaysSi said:

No dingenuity at all. I look for more in a driver's car than a new M3/C63 etc can give so I do find them frustrating/disappointing. I do appreciate I have high standards though so if others are happy with a saloon car for fun then that's cool. It's just not for me.

If I wanted a family car, a big old Volvo/Mercedes/LC etc makes a far more satisfying proposition as part of a small fleet. A W126/S124/X350 etc would be joyous.

I agree.....but the point being that the trade off of spending significant time in a old Volvo/merc Family hack is an even bigger compromise.

I had a better daily hack, IMO, in new/nearly new BMWs (both 250bhp+ diesels) and a 6mth old 5.0 V8 Merc, and I still spend the bulk of the time wishing I was in a better car.

And with respect, if X5/330d/ML500 daily hack make you "suicidal", what the hell would an old Volvo do to you...???

[Ares]

tankplanker said:

SidewaysSi said:

No dingenuity at all. I look for more in a driver's car than a new M3/C63 etc can give so I do find them frustrating/disappointing. I do appreciate I have high standards though so if others are happy with a saloon car for fun then that's cool. It's just not for me.

If I wanted a family car, a big old Volvo/Mercedes/LC etc makes a far more satisfying proposition as part of a small fleet. A W126/S124/X350 etc would be joyous.

I'm in complete agreement. No way a stock M3 is going to be as good to drive at a track or track speeds as a sorted Caterham, Exige or even a Cayman. Obviously the M3 is going to be better on a long distance motorway slog, in heavy rain, sitting in traffic, shifting boxes or family about, but its still compromised for those roles compared to a big soft cruiser.

I'm certainly not saying the M3/C63/Alfa are bad sports cars, any one of those three is an amazing compromise between performance and usability, but a compromise is what they are as far more focused cars still exist.

I'm struggling to understand in the wrong car all the time sentiment. Do you not get to plan where you are going in the morning? Do you not know the weather and route you'll be going on? A crap drive in something like a Caterham to the circuit or similar awesome driving roads would seem a fair trade to me.

You're missing my point, no-one is saying an M3 is as good as a Caterham. But over 4yrs, I did less than 5% of my miles in my Caterham (and some of that wishing I was in a more comfortable car, but mine was very raw), the other 95% of the time I was in a car that I spent most of the time wishing I was in something far better/faster/sportier. For me, the 2-car this was 90%+ compromised.

Now, with a fun, quick family car I get 8/10ths, maybe 9/10ths of the fun, and (so far), no wishing I was in something better/sportier/faster etc. The one car solution is less of a compromise

[anonymous-user]

Ares said:

You're missing my point, no-one is saying an M3 is as good as a Caterham. But over 4yrs, I did less than 5% of my miles in my Caterham (and some of that wishing I was in a more comfortable car, but mine was very raw), the other 95% of the time I was in a car that I spent most of the time wishing I was in something far better/faster/sportier. For me, the 2-car this was 90%+ compromised.

Now, with a fun, quick family car I get 8/10ths, maybe 9/10ths of the fun, and (so far), no wishing I was in something better/sportier/faster etc. The one car solution is less of a compromise

You're wasting your time.

It's a curious and deeply ingrained type of car snobbery that is inherent in a certain type of PH poster.

It's founded in a belief that cars have set roles and that fun/enjoyment/involvement is determined by the vehicle and not the driver. It's then overlaid with a desire to highlight to people that they have purchased the wrong car but that's fine because you don't share the same purist mindset and are a marketing led imbecile.

It's very tiresome.

[GTEYE]

SidewaysSi said:

No dingenuity at all. I look for more in a driver's car than a new M3/C63 etc can give so I do find them frustrating/disappointing. I do appreciate I have high standards though so if others are happy with a saloon car for fun then that's cool. It's just not for me.

If I wanted a family car, a big old Volvo/Mercedes/LC etc makes a far more satisfying proposition as part of a small fleet. A W126/S124/X350 etc would be joyous.

And yet your own garage appears to contains an E36 328i and an Alfa 147....but a current M3 or C63 is frustrating/disappointing?

[Ares]

GTEYE said:

SidewaysSi said:

No dingenuity at all. I look for more in a driver's car than a new M3/C63 etc can give so I do find them frustrating/disappointing. I do appreciate I have high standards though so if others are happy with a saloon car for fun then that's cool. It's just not for me.

If I wanted a family car, a big old Volvo/Mercedes/LC etc makes a far more satisfying proposition as part of a small fleet. A W126/S124/X350 etc would be joyous.

And yet your own garage appears to contains an E36 328i and an Alfa 147....but a current M3 or C63 is frustrating/disappointing?

I believe the term was akin to so boring he would commit suicide.

[tankplanker]

Ares said:

You're missing my point, no-one is saying an M3 is as good as a Caterham. But over 4yrs, I did less than 5% of my miles in my Caterham (and some of that wishing I was in a more comfortable car, but mine was very raw), the other 95% of the time I was in a car that I spent most of the time wishing I was in something far better/faster/sportier. For me, the 2-car this was 90%+ compromised.

Now, with a fun, quick family car I get 8/10ths, maybe 9/10ths of the fun, and (so far), no wishing I was in something better/sportier/faster etc. The one car solution is less of a compromise

I'm struggling with the less of a compromise thing, as only time I use my XC90 is when I have the kids in the car/a lot of stuff/a boring journey usually one full of traffic/speed cameras to cover. Its extremely rare that I need to drive the XC90 with just me in it for any journey I'd ever consider the driving fun regardless of what car I was in.

May be its just me that knows what sort of journey I'm going to make before I start or my roads more congested/speed camera infested, plus I'm not going to push on with the kids/tons of stuff in the car.

The choice of

Brooking10 said:

You're wasting your time.

It's a curious and deeply ingrained type of car snobbery that is inherent in a certain type of PH poster.

It's founded in a belief that cars have set roles and that fun/enjoyment/involvement is determined by the vehicle and not the driver. It's then overlaid with a desire to highlight to people that they have purchased the wrong car but that's fine because you don't share the same purist mindset and are a marketing led imbecile.

It's very tiresome.

For me its more frustration that a certain type of PH poster that pushes a single car as the do it all vehicle, when clearly that vehicle still has significant compromises. The M3/Alfa/C63 are far far better than the average family vehicle but the modern ones are still fat and lack feedback compared to the best (new) out and out sports cars in their bracket.

I'll fully accept I'm a snob if that means I expect the car to actually feedback to me what it is doing as much as possible, for wanting an immediate throttle response. While there is short term fun in driving a crap car (and no, the M3 isn't a crap car) like it is a rental, long term I'd much rather have as much engagement from the car as possible that I am activity driving for enjoyment. More engagement from the actual car, less need to drive it like a tool on the road.

If you can afford to run a brand new M3 or similar as your only car then you have far more options open to you than a st box for a daily and a cheap track toy or the brand new M3. Couple this with only a moron would drive a PCP/leased car on a track day (unless they had some magic insurance policy) and that I'm not going to drive anywhere near as fast on the road as I am on the track and I don't see the point of a single car when it limits where I can drive.

[SidewaysSi]

Ares said:

GTEYE said:

SidewaysSi said:

No dingenuity at all. I look for more in a driver's car than a new M3/C63 etc can give so I do find them frustrating/disappointing. I do appreciate I have high standards though so if others are happy with a saloon car for fun then that's cool. It's just not for me.

If I wanted a family car, a big old Volvo/Mercedes/LC etc makes a far more satisfying proposition as part of a small fleet. A W126/S124/X350 etc would be joyous.

And yet your own garage appears to contains an E36 328i and an Alfa 147....but a current M3 or C63 is frustrating/disappointing?

I believe the term was akin to so boring he would commit suicide.

I think you need to read the description in the BMW before you jump to conclusions...;)

If you like electronic crap, 1600 odd KG and EPAS then I am sure a new M3 is lovely. And I owned and sold a Cayman GT4 as I found it a bit dull.

Edited by SidewaysSi on Wednesday 23 May 15:09

[SidewaysSi]

GTEYE said:

SidewaysSi said:

No dingenuity at all. I look for more in a driver's car than a new M3/C63 etc can give so I do find them frustrating/disappointing. I do appreciate I have high standards though so if others are happy with a saloon car for fun then that's cool. It's just not for me.

If I wanted a family car, a big old Volvo/Mercedes/LC etc makes a far more satisfying proposition as part of a small fleet. A W126/S124/X350 etc would be joyous.

And yet your own garage appears to contains an E36 328i and an Alfa 147....but a current M3 or C63 is frustrating/disappointing?

Just seen your garage. Your comment now makes sense...

[SidewaysSi]

Ares said:

SidewaysSi said:

No dingenuity at all. I look for more in a driver's car than a new M3/C63 etc can give so I do find them frustrating/disappointing. I do appreciate I have high standards though so if others are happy with a saloon car for fun then that's cool. It's just not for me.

If I wanted a family car, a big old Volvo/Mercedes/LC etc makes a far more satisfying proposition as part of a small fleet. A W126/S124/X350 etc would be joyous.

I agree.....but the point being that the trade off of spending significant time in a old Volvo/merc Family hack is an even bigger compromise.

I had a better daily hack, IMO, in new/nearly new BMWs (both 250bhp+ diesels) and a 6mth old 5.0 V8 Merc, and I still spend the bulk of the time wishing I was in a better car.

And with respect, if X5/330d/ML500 daily hack make you "suicidal", what the hell would an old Volvo do to you...???

I would never drive an old Merc as a sole car but I loved having one as part of a fleet. A W124 on 15" wheels for me was a bloody lovely car to mooch around in. Comfort and build that I really admired and which a new M3 etc couldn't hope to match. Brilliant for transporting family and mates. No, it's not a drivers car but I wouldn't be as bothered about that if I had 200 miles to do with my parents on board.

I have a hardcore Caterham (aeroscreened Superlight) and heavily modded Elise as fun weekend cars and again, they have excitement,  feel and immersion in a way no M3 can match.

Also currently have an old Alfa 147 for shopping, parking anywhere and bombing around the village. I would not want to use a £50k car for what this does so well.

That's it with a little fleet - there is something for every journey. My cars are not perfect but each has a role and used in that way, I am never in the wrong car.

However, I do see the sole car point of view as my current family car is a heavily tweaked E36 328i which for me out drives a new M3. It was built with an eye to being quite focused as I wanted something fun even when I had the kid asleep in the back. It's a fantastic compromise and I do love it but I would be disingenuous to try to argue that it hits the highs of the lightweights or would be as soothing as a wafty car.

[anonymous-user]

SidewaysSi said:

If you like electronic crap, 1600 odd KG and EPAS then I am sure a new M3 is lovely. And I owned and sold a Cayman GT4 as I found it a bit dull.

Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 23 May 15:09

It’s this sort of snide elitist “I’m more of an enthusiast than you” bks that rattles my cage quite so much.

And I am a proponent of the multi car garage.

[Ares]

tankplanker said:

Ares said:

You're missing my point, no-one is saying an M3 is as good as a Caterham. But over 4yrs, I did less than 5% of my miles in my Caterham (and some of that wishing I was in a more comfortable car, but mine was very raw), the other 95% of the time I was in a car that I spent most of the time wishing I was in something far better/faster/sportier. For me, the 2-car this was 90%+ compromised.

Now, with a fun, quick family car I get 8/10ths, maybe 9/10ths of the fun, and (so far), no wishing I was in something better/sportier/faster etc. The one car solution is less of a compromise

I'm struggling with the less of a compromise thing, as only time I use my XC90 is when I have the kids in the car/a lot of stuff/a boring journey usually one full of traffic/speed cameras to cover. Its extremely rare that I need to drive the XC90 with just me in it for any journey I'd ever consider the driving fun regardless of what car I was in.

May be its just me that knows what sort of journey I'm going to make before I start or my roads more congested/speed camera infested, plus I'm not going to push on with the kids/tons of stuff in the car.

The choice of

Brooking10 said:

You're wasting your time.

It's a curious and deeply ingrained type of car snobbery that is inherent in a certain type of PH poster.

It's founded in a belief that cars have set roles and that fun/enjoyment/involvement is determined by the vehicle and not the driver. It's then overlaid with a desire to highlight to people that they have purchased the wrong car but that's fine because you don't share the same purist mindset and are a marketing led imbecile.

It's very tiresome.

For me its more frustration that a certain type of PH poster that pushes a single car as the do it all vehicle, when clearly that vehicle still has significant compromises. The M3/Alfa/C63 are far far better than the average family vehicle but the modern ones are still fat and lack feedback compared to the best (new) out and out sports cars in their bracket.

I'll fully accept I'm a snob if that means I expect the car to actually feedback to me what it is doing as much as possible, for wanting an immediate throttle response. While there is short term fun in driving a crap car (and no, the M3 isn't a crap car) like it is a rental, long term I'd much rather have as much engagement from the car as possible that I am activity driving for enjoyment. More engagement from the actual car, less need to drive it like a tool on the road.

If you can afford to run a brand new M3 or similar as your only car then you have far more options open to you than a st box for a daily and a cheap track toy or the brand new M3. Couple this with only a moron would drive a PCP/leased car on a track day (unless they had some magic insurance policy) and that I'm not going to drive anywhere near as fast on the road as I am on the track and I don't see the point of a single car when it limits where I can drive.

I'm not sure how much more simply to explain it.

When you are driving a family hack. XC90, X5, 330d. They are good cars, but there are times, for me it was a lot of the time, that I was frustrated that I wasn't in something sporty. With or without the family. I'm not talking setting 'ring records, but driving a dull car is, well, dull.

I spent any least 50% of my time driving the X5/ML/330d wishing I was in a lighter, faster, more engaging car. Again, not a GT3 RS, just something more fun, more interesting, more involving, something with a bit more grunt. Because I had used 20/30/40% of my car budget on a weekend car, my prime car was compromised, it wasn't as good as my prime car is now for example. It was compromised for at least 50% of the time....probably more like 75% of the time. I wished it was better for those times.

When I was in my Caterham, it was a blast. Incredible fun! Every now and again, driving in unexpected rain to a track, or having to sit in traffic, or getting stuck at 20mph behind 50 cars and a caravan, it was frustrating. But it was only compromised for perhaps 20% of the time.


In my current car, it gives all the food-door practicality I need, is the quickest car I've ever owned (except the Caterham in a couple of situations/on track), gives at least 80% of the thrill of the Lotus's I've owned, and and at least two-thirds of the thrill of the Caterham, on road at least. It also has the fastest 'ring time as an obscure side-bar.

It is compromised for less than 10% of the time.....If that. I've never, in the 10 months/11,000 miles I've done in it, wished I was in something 'better' for the circumstances I've found myself in whether a deserted moorland road, North-Wales, Scottish highlands, Lake District, N Yorks Moors, Peaks or any other 'driving' road.

It is less compromised.


Now if you view non 10/10ths driving and merely utilitarian, just a means to transport from A-to-B, and are happy doing that in barge of an XC90, or a 20yr old Merc/Volvo estate etc....I.e., if you are the kind of person that would rather your family car drove itself, then it may be different, but for anyone that enjoys driving, the two car solution can bring greater compromise, it unquestionably did for me.

Likewise, if you have to drive to the absolute limits to feel like you are 'driving', then yes, it might be different. But most people can enjoy a great car well below absolute limits (most people couldn't drive a great car even close it's limits)

[Ares]

SidewaysSi said:

Ares said:

SidewaysSi said:

No dingenuity at all. I look for more in a driver's car than a new M3/C63 etc can give so I do find them frustrating/disappointing. I do appreciate I have high standards though so if others are happy with a saloon car for fun then that's cool. It's just not for me.

If I wanted a family car, a big old Volvo/Mercedes/LC etc makes a far more satisfying proposition as part of a small fleet. A W126/S124/X350 etc would be joyous.

I agree.....but the point being that the trade off of spending significant time in a old Volvo/merc Family hack is an even bigger compromise.

I had a better daily hack, IMO, in new/nearly new BMWs (both 250bhp+ diesels) and a 6mth old 5.0 V8 Merc, and I still spend the bulk of the time wishing I was in a better car.

And with respect, if X5/330d/ML500 daily hack make you "suicidal", what the hell would an old Volvo do to you...???

I would never drive an old Merc as a sole car but I loved having one as part of a fleet. A W124 on 15" wheels for me was a bloody lovely car to mooch around in. Comfort and build that I really admired and which a new M3 etc couldn't hope to match. Brilliant for transporting family and mates. No, it's not a drivers car but I wouldn't be as bothered about that if I had 200 miles to do with my parents on board.

I have a hardcore Caterham (aeroscreened Superlight) and heavily modded Elise as fun weekend cars and again, they have excitement,  feel and immersion in a way no M3 can match.

Also currently have an old Alfa 147 for shopping, parking anywhere and bombing around the village. I would not want to use a £50k car for what this does so well.

That's it with a little fleet - there is something for every journey. My cars are not perfect but each has a role and used in that way, I am never in the wrong car.

However, I do see the sole car point of view as my current family car is a heavily tweaked E36 328i which for me out drives a new M3. It was built with an eye to being quite focused as I wanted something fun even when I had the kid asleep in the back. It's a fantastic compromise and I do love it but I would be disingenuous to try to argue that it hits the highs of the lightweights or would be as soothing as a wafty car.

OK - you're doing a 500 miles round trip, with the family, luggage and dog, to Scotland in a dry June. 300 miles on the motorway, 200 miles on nice sweeping A and B roads. Whilst there, you're going to take a trip further north.

The following week, you are visiting clients. You need to be smartly dressed, and may need to take theme of them out once you get there. The journey is across the Peak District.

Which car do you take for each journey that is always the perfect car?

[Ares]

Brooking10 said:

SidewaysSi said:

If you like electronic crap, 1600 odd KG and EPAS then I am sure a new M3 is lovely. And I owned and sold a Cayman GT4 as I found it a bit dull.

Edited by SidewaysSi on Wednesday 23 May 15:09

It’s this sort of snide elitist “I’m more of an enthusiast than you” bks that rattles my cage quite so much.

And I am a proponent of the multi car garage.

Ditto, and my weekend car was even more extreme.

We can't all be driving gods mind

[anonymous-user]

tankplanker said:

Ares said:

You're missing my point, no-one is saying an M3 is as good as a Caterham. But over 4yrs, I did less than 5% of my miles in my Caterham (and some of that wishing I was in a more comfortable car, but mine was very raw), the other 95% of the time I was in a car that I spent most of the time wishing I was in something far better/faster/sportier. For me, the 2-car this was 90%+ compromised.

Now, with a fun, quick family car I get 8/10ths, maybe 9/10ths of the fun, and (so far), no wishing I was in something better/sportier/faster etc. The one car solution is less of a compromise

I'm struggling with the less of a compromise thing, as only time I use my XC90 is when I have the kids in the car/a lot of stuff/a boring journey usually one full of traffic/speed cameras to cover. Its extremely rare that I need to drive the XC90 with just me in it for any journey I'd ever consider the driving fun regardless of what car I was in.

May be its just me that knows what sort of journey I'm going to make before I start or my roads more congested/speed camera infested, plus I'm not going to push on with the kids/tons of stuff in the car.

The choice of

Brooking10 said:

You're wasting your time.

It's a curious and deeply ingrained type of car snobbery that is inherent in a certain type of PH poster.

It's founded in a belief that cars have set roles and that fun/enjoyment/involvement is determined by the vehicle and not the driver. It's then overlaid with a desire to highlight to people that they have purchased the wrong car but that's fine because you don't share the same purist mindset and are a marketing led imbecile.

It's very tiresome.

For me its more frustration that a certain type of PH poster that pushes a single car as the do it all vehicle, when clearly that vehicle still has significant compromises. The M3/Alfa/C63 are far far better than the average family vehicle but the modern ones are still fat and lack feedback compared to the best (new) out and out sports cars in their bracket.

I'll fully accept I'm a snob if that means I expect the car to actually feedback to me what it is doing as much as possible, for wanting an immediate throttle response. While there is short term fun in driving a crap car (and no, the M3 isn't a crap car) like it is a rental, long term I'd much rather have as much engagement from the car as possible that I am activity driving for enjoyment. More engagement from the actual car, less need to drive it like a tool on the road.

If you can afford to run a brand new M3 or similar as your only car then you have far more options open to you than a st box for a daily and a cheap track toy or the brand new M3. Couple this with only a moron would drive a PCP/leased car on a track day (unless they had some magic insurance policy) and that I'm not going to drive anywhere near as fast on the road as I am on the track and I don't see the point of a single car when it limits where I can drive.

There are some points I agree with.

Several I don’t.

The inference that fun and enjoyment equals fast or as you say needing to drive “ like a tool” is where I disagree the most.

[Ares]

Brooking10 said:

tankplanker said:

Ares said:

You're missing my point, no-one is saying an M3 is as good as a Caterham. But over 4yrs, I did less than 5% of my miles in my Caterham (and some of that wishing I was in a more comfortable car, but mine was very raw), the other 95% of the time I was in a car that I spent most of the time wishing I was in something far better/faster/sportier. For me, the 2-car this was 90%+ compromised.

Now, with a fun, quick family car I get 8/10ths, maybe 9/10ths of the fun, and (so far), no wishing I was in something better/sportier/faster etc. The one car solution is less of a compromise

I'm struggling with the less of a compromise thing, as only time I use my XC90 is when I have the kids in the car/a lot of stuff/a boring journey usually one full of traffic/speed cameras to cover. Its extremely rare that I need to drive the XC90 with just me in it for any journey I'd ever consider the driving fun regardless of what car I was in.

May be its just me that knows what sort of journey I'm going to make before I start or my roads more congested/speed camera infested, plus I'm not going to push on with the kids/tons of stuff in the car.

The choice of

Brooking10 said:

You're wasting your time.

It's a curious and deeply ingrained type of car snobbery that is inherent in a certain type of PH poster.

It's founded in a belief that cars have set roles and that fun/enjoyment/involvement is determined by the vehicle and not the driver. It's then overlaid with a desire to highlight to people that they have purchased the wrong car but that's fine because you don't share the same purist mindset and are a marketing led imbecile.

It's very tiresome.

For me its more frustration that a certain type of PH poster that pushes a single car as the do it all vehicle, when clearly that vehicle still has significant compromises. The M3/Alfa/C63 are far far better than the average family vehicle but the modern ones are still fat and lack feedback compared to the best (new) out and out sports cars in their bracket.

I'll fully accept I'm a snob if that means I expect the car to actually feedback to me what it is doing as much as possible, for wanting an immediate throttle response. While there is short term fun in driving a crap car (and no, the M3 isn't a crap car) like it is a rental, long term I'd much rather have as much engagement from the car as possible that I am activity driving for enjoyment. More engagement from the actual car, less need to drive it like a tool on the road.

If you can afford to run a brand new M3 or similar as your only car then you have far more options open to you than a st box for a daily and a cheap track toy or the brand new M3. Couple this with only a moron would drive a PCP/leased car on a track day (unless they had some magic insurance policy) and that I'm not going to drive anywhere near as fast on the road as I am on the track and I don't see the point of a single car when it limits where I can drive.

There are some points I agree with.

Several I don’t.

The inference that fun and enjoyment equals fast or as you say needing to drive “ like a tool” is where I disagree the most.

Exactly, feel is one of the biggest aspects, for me. And to demonstrably better the feel that my car has, you would need to blow at least half the budget on a Caterham or more focused Elise, meaning the family/daily hack would be even more compromised.

Some are happy to have an ultimate car for 10% of the time, and a stbox for the rest. I don't want to spend 90% of my time in a stbox.

[superlightr]

Ares said:

OK - you're doing a 500 miles round trip, with the family, luggage and dog, to Scotland in a dry June. 300 miles on the motorway, 200 miles on nice sweeping A and B roads. Whilst there, you're going to take a trip further north.

The following week, you are visiting clients. You need to be smartly dressed, and may need to take theme of them out once you get there. The journey is across the Peak District.

Which car do you take for each journey that is always the perfect car?

that would be the RS6

will tow a van as well if you want BONUS

[SidewaysSi]

Ares said:

SidewaysSi said:

Ares said:

SidewaysSi said:

No dingenuity at all. I look for more in a driver's car than a new M3/C63 etc can give so I do find them frustrating/disappointing. I do appreciate I have high standards though so if others are happy with a saloon car for fun then that's cool. It's just not for me.

If I wanted a family car, a big old Volvo/Mercedes/LC etc makes a far more satisfying proposition as part of a small fleet. A W126/S124/X350 etc would be joyous.

I agree.....but the point being that the trade off of spending significant time in a old Volvo/merc Family hack is an even bigger compromise.

I had a better daily hack, IMO, in new/nearly new BMWs (both 250bhp+ diesels) and a 6mth old 5.0 V8 Merc, and I still spend the bulk of the time wishing I was in a better car.

And with respect, if X5/330d/ML500 daily hack make you "suicidal", what the hell would an old Volvo do to you...???

I would never drive an old Merc as a sole car but I loved having one as part of a fleet. A W124 on 15" wheels for me was a bloody lovely car to mooch around in. Comfort and build that I really admired and which a new M3 etc couldn't hope to match. Brilliant for transporting family and mates. No, it's not a drivers car but I wouldn't be as bothered about that if I had 200 miles to do with my parents on board.

I have a hardcore Caterham (aeroscreened Superlight) and heavily modded Elise as fun weekend cars and again, they have excitement,  feel and immersion in a way no M3 can match.

Also currently have an old Alfa 147 for shopping, parking anywhere and bombing around the village. I would not want to use a £50k car for what this does so well.

That's it with a little fleet - there is something for every journey. My cars are not perfect but each has a role and used in that way, I am never in the wrong car.

However, I do see the sole car point of view as my current family car is a heavily tweaked E36 328i which for me out drives a new M3. It was built with an eye to being quite focused as I wanted something fun even when I had the kid asleep in the back. It's a fantastic compromise and I do love it but I would be disingenuous to try to argue that it hits the highs of the lightweights or would be as soothing as a wafty car.

OK - you're doing a 500 miles round trip, with the family, luggage and dog, to Scotland in a dry June. 300 miles on the motorway, 200 miles on nice sweeping A and B roads. Whilst there, you're going to take a trip further north.

The following week, you are visiting clients. You need to be smartly dressed, and may need to take theme of them out once you get there. The journey is across the Peak District.

Which car do you take for each journey that is always the perfect car?

We can all make up hypothetical scenarios to fit our point of view but suffice to say, given my life and driving needs/wants/standards, a sole car cannot ever give me what I want. Fine for some and as I said before, that is great if someone feels a large saloon car does it all, but its not for me.

Unfortunately a new M3 does not have the on road interaction that I look for in any car, be it a fun daily or a weekend blatmobile, so it would ultimately lead to frustration.

Also you seem to assume it is one "good" car or a stbox and a weekender which takes all your funds. That is not necessarily the case. Surely having for example a Caterham, 911 and Defender in addition to your Alfa would be preferable. Whether you want to/can afford to/cope with the administration is a different matter.

To give you an answer to your question: Scenario 1, my BMW. Scenario 2, the Elise. Or the Seven.

Edited by SidewaysSi on Wednesday 23 May 18:28