Do you ever 'self-police' the roads?

[soupdragon1]

Had a decision to make this morning, was behind a tractor and another chap sitting behind me. Traffic coming other way so no overtake.

Tractor then indicates to turn right but it's one of those tiny bulb lights and hard to see in low blazing sunlight. He did look round to me and pointed to the right. At that point, the oncoming traffic had p
cleared so a perfect overtake opportunity. I'm thinking that the chap behind is ready to pass and might not realise tractor is about to turn. Should I maybe 'pretend' to overtake and block the guy behind me? I didn't, but maybe I should have as once he realised I wasn't overtaking he passed me.....and then tried to pass the tractor turning right too. Tractor seen this and stopped his manoeuvre thankfully, and car behind passed without issue.

No incident, tractor guy was alert and anticipated it. You do wonder though, may be you should just block the overtake as it's a potential accident about to occur. Thoughts?

[culpz]

The answer is never to self-Police the roads, regardless of how many various scenarios you throw at us. You clearly haven't learnt the error of your ways.

[nonsequitur]

Toltec said:

nonsequitur said:

I'm surprised that you can concentrate on your driving with all that stuff going on.

Trivial stuff, just drops out of the moment to moment spacio-temporal probability mapping I use for space management.

I'm surprised that you can concentrate on the day with all that stuff going on.

[soupdragon1]

culpz said:

The answer is never to self-Police the roads, regardless of how many various scenarios you throw at us. You clearly haven't learnt the error of your ways.

I suggest you read my post again. I didn't self-police - I didn't do anything. I stated that I was worried about the consequences of doing nothing/finding a way to alert the driver behind me of what was happening. You've literally got a couple of seconds to think and you're anticipating a scenario where a collision could happen. Nothing happened of course - but it could have - that's the point.

Edit:

and just to add - if you're one of those drivers who can anticipate a potential risk but think 'well its nothing to do with me, I know I'll be alright' then that's just as bad (in my opinion of course!)

Edited by soupdragon1 on Thursday 24th May 09:23

[culpz]

soupdragon1 said:

culpz said:

The answer is never to self-Police the roads, regardless of how many various scenarios you throw at us. You clearly haven't learnt the error of your ways.

I suggest you read my post again. I didn't self-police - I didn't do anything. I stated that I was worried about the consequences of doing nothing/finding a way to alert the driver behind me of what was happening. You've literally got a couple of seconds to think and you're anticipating a scenario where a collision could happen. Nothing happened of course - but it could have - that's the point.

Edit:

and just to add - if you're one of those drivers who can anticipate a potential risk but think 'well its nothing to do with me, I know I'll be alright' then that's just as bad (in my opinion of course!)

Edited by soupdragon1 on Thursday 24th May 09:23

You were contemplating blocking someone behind you, in an effort to refrain them from overtaking. That's self-Policing. This whole thread, made by you, is about self-Policing.

I'm not one of those drivers, but you're going to cause an accident one day and blame everyone else for it. It's not your say so, you can't control other driver's actions.

[soupdragon1]

culpz said:

soupdragon1 said:

culpz said:

The answer is never to self-Police the roads, regardless of how many various scenarios you throw at us. You clearly haven't learnt the error of your ways.

I suggest you read my post again. I didn't self-police - I didn't do anything. I stated that I was worried about the consequences of doing nothing/finding a way to alert the driver behind me of what was happening. You've literally got a couple of seconds to think and you're anticipating a scenario where a collision could happen. Nothing happened of course - but it could have - that's the point.

Edit:

and just to add - if you're one of those drivers who can anticipate a potential risk but think 'well its nothing to do with me, I know I'll be alright' then that's just as bad (in my opinion of course!)

Edited by soupdragon1 on Thursday 24th May 09:23

You were contemplating blocking someone behind you, in an effort to refrain them from overtaking. That's self-Policing. This whole thread, made by you, is about self-Policing.

I'm not one of those drivers, but you're going to cause an accident one day and blame everyone else for it. It's not your say so, you can't control other driver's actions.

Someone mentioned Rospa earlier. Pro lorry drivers are trained to anticipate risk before it happens and react accordingly. Many stories I've heard of lorry drivers saving people from themselves by being smart and safe on the roads. To say you shouldn't self police under the correct circumstances is just wrong. You can't blanket every road situation with a 'no' I'm afraid.

It's why I created the thread. It does happen and sometimes, it 'should' happen.

[A.J.M]

No.
Why would you if you aren’t the Police?

Is this for police wannabe Walter Mitty folk?

[culpz]

soupdragon1 said:

culpz said:

soupdragon1 said:

culpz said:

The answer is never to self-Police the roads, regardless of how many various scenarios you throw at us. You clearly haven't learnt the error of your ways.

I suggest you read my post again. I didn't self-police - I didn't do anything. I stated that I was worried about the consequences of doing nothing/finding a way to alert the driver behind me of what was happening. You've literally got a couple of seconds to think and you're anticipating a scenario where a collision could happen. Nothing happened of course - but it could have - that's the point.

Edit:

and just to add - if you're one of those drivers who can anticipate a potential risk but think 'well its nothing to do with me, I know I'll be alright' then that's just as bad (in my opinion of course!)

Edited by soupdragon1 on Thursday 24th May 09:23

You were contemplating blocking someone behind you, in an effort to refrain them from overtaking. That's self-Policing. This whole thread, made by you, is about self-Policing.

I'm not one of those drivers, but you're going to cause an accident one day and blame everyone else for it. It's not your say so, you can't control other driver's actions.

Someone mentioned Rospa earlier. Pro lorry drivers are trained to anticipate risk before it happens and react accordingly. Many stories I've heard of lorry drivers saving people from themselves by being smart and safe on the roads. To say you shouldn't self police under the correct circumstances is just wrong. You can't blanket every road situation with a 'no' I'm afraid.

It's why I created the thread. It does happen and sometimes, it 'should' happen.

There's a huge difference between hazard perception and self-Policing. It appears to be something which you are struggling to comprehend.

Your postings are extremely ironic. You talk about avoiding risk before it happens, yet you appear completely blind to your own dangerous actions.

[superlightr]

soupdragon1 said:

Had a decision to make this morning, was behind a tractor and another chap sitting behind me. Traffic coming other way so no overtake.

Tractor then indicates to turn right but it's one of those tiny bulb lights and hard to see in low blazing sunlight. He did look round to me and pointed to the right. At that point, the oncoming traffic had p
cleared so a perfect overtake opportunity. I'm thinking that the chap behind is ready to pass and might not realise tractor is about to turn. Should I maybe 'pretend' to overtake and block the guy behind me? I didn't, but maybe I should have as once he realised I wasn't overtaking he passed me.....and then tried to pass the tractor turning right too. Tractor seen this and stopped his manoeuvre thankfully, and car behind passed without issue.

No incident, tractor guy was alert and anticipated it. You do wonder though, may be you should just block the overtake as it's a potential accident about to occur. Thoughts?

What 8 pages now and it still hasn't sunk in despite you saying you will change and learn.

You are a feking accident waiting to happen. You can lead a horse to water....

You did the right thing not to block but blimey the conflict that must be going on in your brain must be driving you nuts !

Please sign on to Rospa, practice, listen and learn - you will make me sleep easier at night.

I'm out.

Edited by superlightr on Thursday 24th May 10:09

[rxe]

oceanview said:

That makes a lot more sense- just a shame to have to slow a journey by stopping but better than being smashed into the back by some idiot like the other plonker who posted!

You're not really slowing down, you're just opening up the gap - once the gap is opened, you'll be going at exactly the same speed you were before. In the mind of the tail-gater, because there is x yards of visible tarmac in front of your car, you must be going too slowly. Of course, I am assuming you're talking about motorways, which is where I encounter the most dangerous tail gaters.

I am rarely tailgated on free moving back roads. I tend to find that simply maintaining speed through bends tends to have the desired effect!

[superlightr]

soupdragon1 said:

Had a decision to make this morning, was behind a tractor and another chap sitting behind me. Traffic coming other way so no overtake.

Tractor then indicates to turn right but it's one of those tiny bulb lights and hard to see in low blazing sunlight. He did look round to me and pointed to the right. At that point, the oncoming traffic had p
cleared so a perfect overtake opportunity. I'm thinking that the chap behind is ready to pass and might not realise tractor is about to turn. Should I maybe 'pretend' to overtake and block the guy behind me? I didn't, but maybe I should have as once he realised I wasn't overtaking he passed me.....and then tried to pass the tractor turning right too. Tractor seen this and stopped his manoeuvre thankfully, and car behind passed without issue.

No incident, tractor guy was alert and anticipated it. You do wonder though, may be you should just block the overtake as it's a potential accident about to occur. Thoughts?

What 8 pages now and it still hasn't sunk in despite you saying you will change and learn.

You are a feking accident waiting to happen. You can lead a horse to water....

You did the right thing not to block but blimey the conflict that must be going on in your brain must be driving you nuts !

Please sign on to Rospa, practice, listen and learn - you will make me sleep easier at night.

Edited by superlightr on Thursday 24th May 10:29

[Toltec]

soupdragon1 said:

Someone mentioned Rospa earlier. Pro lorry drivers are trained to anticipate risk before it happens and react accordingly. Many stories I've heard of lorry drivers saving people from themselves by being smart and safe on the roads. To say you shouldn't self police under the correct circumstances is just wrong. You can't blanket every road situation with a 'no' I'm afraid.

It's why I created the thread. It does happen and sometimes, it 'should' happen.

There is a difference between not being the cause of or involved in an incident and trying to control other road users like a policeman. There are situations where the correct action is not clear, one thing to bear in mind is that unless you are in a marked up police vehicle most drivers will just think you are being a knob and perhaps do something that makes the situation even worse.

The best thing to do is drive well and try to always make your intentions clear to other road users, then try to make sure that if they still do something stupid you don't make the situation worse. A good technique is to imagine what your action looks like from their point of view.

With the tractor you could have moved out for a look then just pulled back in and slowed or just simply slowed, this might have made the person behind realise that you had checked and decided the pass was not on making them take a better look themselves. If nothing else by slowing you would open a gap between you and the tractor to avoid the fallout of a collision.

[RobM77]

Toltec said:

soupdragon1 said:

Someone mentioned Rospa earlier. Pro lorry drivers are trained to anticipate risk before it happens and react accordingly. Many stories I've heard of lorry drivers saving people from themselves by being smart and safe on the roads. To say you shouldn't self police under the correct circumstances is just wrong. You can't blanket every road situation with a 'no' I'm afraid.

It's why I created the thread. It does happen and sometimes, it 'should' happen.

There is a difference between not being the cause of or involved in an incident and trying to control other road users like a policeman. There are situations where the correct action is not clear, one thing to bear in mind is that unless you are in a marked up police vehicle most drivers will just think you are being a knob and perhaps do something that makes the situation even worse.

The best thing to do is drive well and try to always make your intentions clear to other road users, then try to make sure that if they still do something stupid you don't make the situation worse. A good technique is to imagine what your action looks like from their point of view.

With the tractor you could have moved out for a look then just pulled back in and slowed or just simply slowed, this might have made the person behind realise that you had checked and decided the pass was not on making them take a better look themselves. If nothing else by slowing you would open a gap between you and the tractor to avoid the fallout of a collision.

For example, if I come across a queue on a blind bend, like many people I usually stop with a decent gap, keep my right foot on the brake and watch my rear view mirror. Likewise, I always stop in a queue with enough room to move out of the way if I need to (of an ambulance, police car, and on one memorable occasion, a car with all four wheels locked sliding towards me!). That sort of thing is just common sense safe driving, which is very different from self-policing the roads, which usually means taking action against another motorist that you perceive has done something wrong.

[Toltec]

RobM77 said:

For example, if I come across a queue on a blind bend, like many people I usually stop with a decent gap, keep my right foot on the brake and watch my rear view mirror. Likewise, I always stop in a queue with enough room to move out of the way if I need to (of an ambulance, police car, and on one memorable occasion, a car with all four wheels locked sliding towards me!). That sort of thing is just common sense safe driving, which is very different from self-policing the roads, which usually means taking action against another motorist that you perceive has done something wrong.

I think that may be the critical point where you cross the line, if your motive is that you believe you are making the situation safer then you may be wrong, but at least it is an honest mistake, if you try to stop someone breaking your rules then you are always wrong.

[Royce44]

Well I'm kind of guilty for doing what the OP does. ( I keep small gaps not the accelerating thing)

Driving in London means you have to be an arse sometimes, which is a shame but its the difference between getting home at 6pm or missing my sons betime at 7pm.

I'm amazed that people are so quick to throw the OP under the bus. It's the wkers that are are *dangerously* cutting in that need the abuse which appears to be getting defended somewhat in this thread.

M2 J3 at rush hour and people will literally stop in lane 1 till there let in meanwhile HGV's have to swerve into lane 2 last minute to avoid a rear ender as no one will let him out.

I guarantee every single one of you at some point has got frustrated with queue jumpers and closed the gap in front to prevent it.

Ps- I'll happily let in a car using the zip merge.
I also will let in lost drivers as there is a clear difference in behaviour those lost and queue jumpers.

[captain_cynic]

Practice road courtesy, not road captaincy.

In heavy traffic, no-one is getting anywhere fast so I try to be as tolerant of other road users as I can (OK, this mornings dash cam footage is pretty sweary... some say that stop-start traffic is painful in a manual, it isn't, it's almost stop-start traffic that's painful as you're constantly engaging the clutch to bimble at 2 MPH). My rule with letting people in is
1. Are they indicating?
2. Is is safe?
If I answer yes to both of those questions, they get let in. Sometimes the answer to #2 is that I should pass them first as I'd have to brake too hard to let them in front.

However I shan't lambaste the OP, we all have our flaws and he's admitted to his. I do have a nasty habit of using the hashed area to go straight into Lane 2 and mash the go pedal deliberately to get ahead of the bimbler who was doing 40 on the on-ramp I was stuck behind and is merging onto a motorway at the speed of smell, but I make sure both lanes are clear of traffic first. My first rule when changing lanes is not to inconvenience others as much as possible.

Also at merge points I try to create a gap ahead of time. If all motorists created a gap, traffic would stretched out like an accordion and merge points don't become stopping points (I can dream, right).

Edited by captain_cynic on Thursday 24th May 11:29

[Toltec]

captain_cynic said:

Practice road courtesy, not road captaincy.

In heavy traffic, no-one is getting anywhere fast so I try to be as tolerant of other road users as I can (OK, this mornings dash cam footage is pretty sweary... some say that stop-start traffic is painful in a manual, it isn't, it's almost stop-start traffic that's painful as you're constantly engaging the clutch to bimble at 2 MPH). My rule with letting people in is
1. Are they indicating?
2. Is is safe?
If I answer yes to both of those questions, they get let in. Sometimes the answer to #2 is that I should pass them first as I'd have to brake too hard to let them in front.

However I shan't lambaste the OP, we all have our flaws and he's admitted to his. I do have a nasty habit of using the hashed area to go straight into Lane 2 and mash the go pedal deliberately to get ahead of the bimbler who was doing 40 on the on-ramp I was stuck behind and is merging onto a motorway at the speed of smell, but I make sure both lanes are clear of traffic first. My first rule when changing lanes is not to inconvenience others as much as possible.

Also at merge points I try to create a gap ahead of time. If all motorists created a gap, traffic would stretched out like an accordion and merge points don't become stopping points (I can dream, right).

Edited by captain_cynic on Thursday 24th May 11:29

Good points, not to mention the bold above which is both poetically descriptive and funny.

[Richard-390a0]

Bearing in mind the topic I've read recently on here about a chap getting battered senseless for not letting someone push into merging traffic near Croydon & the nutter not even being caught afterwards I really don't believe it's worth the risk / hassle of getting into confruntation with other road users whether you're being a road captain or not (Not in the Croydon case IIRC).

[RobM77]

Toltec said:

RobM77 said:

For example, if I come across a queue on a blind bend, like many people I usually stop with a decent gap, keep my right foot on the brake and watch my rear view mirror. Likewise, I always stop in a queue with enough room to move out of the way if I need to (of an ambulance, police car, and on one memorable occasion, a car with all four wheels locked sliding towards me!). That sort of thing is just common sense safe driving, which is very different from self-policing the roads, which usually means taking action against another motorist that you perceive has done something wrong.

I think that may be the critical point where you cross the line, if your motive is that you believe you are making the situation safer then you may be wrong, but at least it is an honest mistake, if you try to stop someone breaking your rules then you are always wrong.

I agree. That's where the line is drawn.

As I said in my first post on this thread:

• Firstly, these self policing idiots are often subject to their own ignorance of the Highway Code and end up policing the wrong thing (we've all seen this with the overtaking Nazis, or people who don't realise bus lanes have limited operating hours, or who miss an NSL sign after a 30mph limit and think you're speeding when you're not);

• Secondly, their judgement is often marred with prejudice. For example, what about the odd person who genuinely doesn't realise they're in the wrong lane until it's almost too late, perhaps cause they don't know the road and missed a sign? If that person is indeed on an unfamiliar road, then they probably also don't realise their mistake can be rectified a few miles up ahead, and may therefore take dangerous action to cut in further ahead, worried they'll miss their job interview, pickup etc. You don't know the circumstances, so stop playing Judge Judy.

• Thirdly, you never know who you're messing with and things can turn nasty.

• Fourthly, you never know the story - what if the person desperate to get ahead is trying to get home before their Dad dies, or is missing the birth of their first child etc? It's not uncommon - we once had a thread on here about speeding and a fair few people had got a call out of the blue that someone was about to die etc and they were two hour's drive away. I personally would happily add half a second to my journey time for such a person.

The only responsible course of action is to let the police do the policing.

[FiF]

RobM77 said:

Toltec said:

RobM77 said:

For example, if I come across a queue on a blind bend, like many people I usually stop with a decent gap, keep my right foot on the brake and watch my rear view mirror. Likewise, I always stop in a queue with enough room to move out of the way if I need to (of an ambulance, police car, and on one memorable occasion, a car with all four wheels locked sliding towards me!). That sort of thing is just common sense safe driving, which is very different from self-policing the roads, which usually means taking action against another motorist that you perceive has done something wrong.

I think that may be the critical point where you cross the line, if your motive is that you believe you are making the situation safer then you may be wrong, but at least it is an honest mistake, if you try to stop someone breaking your rules then you are always wrong.

I agree. That's where the line is drawn.

As I said in my first post on this thread:

• Firstly, these self policing idiots are often subject to their own ignorance of the Highway Code and end up policing the wrong thing (we've all seen this with the overtaking Nazis, or people who don't realise bus lanes have limited operating hours, or who miss an NSL sign after a 30mph limit and think you're speeding when you're not);

• Secondly, their judgement is often marred with prejudice. For example, what about the odd person who genuinely doesn't realise they're in the wrong lane until it's almost too late, perhaps cause they don't know the road and missed a sign? If that person is indeed on an unfamiliar road, then they probably also don't realise their mistake can be rectified a few miles up ahead, and may therefore take dangerous action to cut in further ahead, worried they'll miss their job interview, pickup etc. You don't know the circumstances, so stop playing Judge Judy.

• Thirdly, you never know who you're messing with and things can turn nasty.

• Fourthly, you never know the story - what if the person desperate to get ahead is trying to get home before their Dad dies, or is missing the birth of their first child etc? It's not uncommon - we once had a thread on here about speeding and a fair few people had got a call out of the blue that someone was about to die etc and they were two hour's drive away. I personally would happily add half a second to my journey time for such a person.

The only responsible course of action is to let the police do the policing.

I agree with all this, there are circumstances where it's the correct thing to do to try and prevent a collision. For example stopped at a pedestrian crossing, someone crossing in front of your vehicle and you see another vehicle about to overtake and possibly hit the crossing pedestrian. There it's completely correct to sound you horn and signal a warning to the pedestrian, but that isn't policing.

Likewise, as at the beginning of the quoted post, traffic queue round a bend, it's good practice to stop early so an approaching vehicle gets an earlier view and gives you room to move forward and create extra space. Not policing.