Do you ever 'self-police' the roads?

Do you ever 'self-police' the roads?

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soupdragon1

Original Poster:

3,966 posts

96 months

Thursday 24th May 2018
quotequote all
Royce44 said:
Well I'm kind of guilty for doing what the OP does. ( I keep small gaps not the accelerating thing)

Driving in London means you have to be an arse sometimes, which is a shame but its the difference between getting home at 6pm or missing my sons betime at 7pm.

I'm amazed that people are so quick to throw the OP under the bus. It's the wkers that are are *dangerously* cutting in that need the abuse which appears to be getting defended somewhat in this thread.

M2 J3 at rush hour and people will literally stop in lane 1 till there let in meanwhile HGV's have to swerve into lane 2 last minute to avoid a rear ender as no one will let him out.

I guarantee every single one of you at some point has got frustrated with queue jumpers and closed the gap in front to prevent it.

Ps- I'll happily let in a car using the zip merge.
I also will let in lost drivers as there is a clear difference in behaviour those lost and queue jumpers.
Thank you.

I'm going to write another post in a moment as I haven't really given the full perspective in my 1st post - if anyone knows anything about a 'risk matrix chart' or has been trained in IOSH (which I have - a safety course) I have taken some of these skills and applied them to how I drive.
While I've been flamed for my OP, and I get the reasons why, people won't have understood the full picture. For example, in risk mitigation, its all about reducing risk. My actions were to try to reduce risk overall.
Quite rightly, people have pointed out that my actions are risky. I agree - there is an element of risk - without question. The other side of the coin, is, which is riskier - the cutter inners action, or my action?

Originally, I had worked it out that my action was less risky than theirs, so therefore my decision was correct. However - I've also considered other elements that have been brought to my attention by this thread (eg, some nut job not taking kindly to my actions and then behaving badly as a result of my actions) so that changes the overall risk. My view on my original post is that I will no longer do that.

A better course of action would be to flash at people, beep the horn loudly for example, as there is a risk that when he cuts in, someone in my inside lane will want to take my gap - and then they collide. The person from the inside can't see the car on my otherside, and, because its 2 separate motorways, they will certainly not be expecting someone to arrive from that motorway onto ours.

I'll expand on this in another post and the logic from where it came from.

Scootersp

3,107 posts

187 months

Thursday 24th May 2018
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In these instances I try and imagine the person pushing in/taking advantage (which is definitely sometimes the case as the op's example is not a simple merge in turn one) has a more genuine reason for doing so, lost/unfamiliar with the road ie not a regular (something we often overlook when we are on our daily routes) pregnancy/hospital visit etc then you can just let it go, hell even feel good about it!

With traffic how it is nowadays there is a bigger temptation to do late cut ins as the queues can be so long, and at the front/close to the cause of the blockage it often 'pulses' more so there is nearly always a gap for the brave/impatient/blagger (take your pick!). Motorway junctions with long queues and possibly high speed differentials can create the most dangerous situations and so arguably you should tolerate them more here? say it's a family with an angry dad, the kids don't really deserve (well a father like that for a start!) to be hung out to dry by someone with the moral high ground.

Whilst frustrating I think accepting the odd occurrence of this is better than potentially being somehow involved in a major rta. but none of us are saints and have probably all done things in cars we are not proud of, all you can do is try and be better going forward.


jimmy the hat

429 posts

146 months

Thursday 24th May 2018
quotequote all
soupdragon1 said:
Thank you.

I'm going to write another post in a moment as I haven't really given the full perspective in my 1st post - if anyone knows anything about a 'risk matrix chart' or has been trained in IOSH (which I have - a safety course) I have taken some of these skills and applied them to how I drive.
While I've been flamed for my OP, and I get the reasons why, people won't have understood the full picture. For example, in risk mitigation, its all about reducing risk. My actions were to try to reduce risk overall.
Quite rightly, people have pointed out that my actions are risky. I agree - there is an element of risk - without question. The other side of the coin, is, which is riskier - the cutter inners action, or my action?

Originally, I had worked it out that my action was less risky than theirs, so therefore my decision was correct. However - I've also considered other elements that have been brought to my attention by this thread (eg, some nut job not taking kindly to my actions and then behaving badly as a result of my actions) so that changes the overall risk. My view on my original post is that I will no longer do that.

A better course of action would be to flash at people, beep the horn loudly for example, as there is a risk that when he cuts in, someone in my inside lane will want to take my gap - and then they collide. The person from the inside can't see the car on my otherside, and, because its 2 separate motorways, they will certainly not be expecting someone to arrive from that motorway onto ours.

I'll expand on this in another post and the logic from where it came from.
In all seriousness, just leave them to it. You hadn't thought it all the way through. On reflection you now realise that particular thing was dumb, bravo but you're still not getting the fundamentals. If they haven't thought it all the way through, anything, ANYTHING, that you do that's unexpected stands a much better chance of eliciting an adverse reaction than a good one. If it's already a 'dangerous' manouevre, adding a distraction or additional thought-process by hooting or flashing is only likely to make it much more so.

Make your driving your business, make sure it's as predictable as possible and that you can stop before you hit anything should they get it wrong and that's really all anyone can ever do.

Cheers, Jim

soupdragon1

Original Poster:

3,966 posts

96 months

Thursday 24th May 2018
quotequote all
jimmy the hat said:
In all seriousness, just leave them to it. You hadn't thought it all the way through. On reflection you now realise that particular thing was dumb, bravo but you're still not getting the fundamentals. If they haven't thought it all the way through, anything, ANYTHING, that you do that's unexpected stands a much better chance of eliciting an adverse reaction than a good one. If it's already a 'dangerous' manouevre, adding a distraction or additional thought-process by hooting or flashing is only likely to make it much more so.

Make your driving your business, make sure it's as predictable as possible and that you can stop before you hit anything should they get it wrong and that's really all anyone can ever do.

Cheers, Jim
Good post Jim and that last line in particular is very good advice - keep your own driving predictable is a good Mantra to have.

soupdragon1

Original Poster:

3,966 posts

96 months

Thursday 24th May 2018
quotequote all
I also should add that starting the thread with 'self-policing' in the title and continuing to use that term - very poor choice of words in hindsight.

I've decided not to revisit some of the other stuff I was going to write - people have formed an opinion of me based on what I've written here, but of course, the written word can never truly describe the situation and unless you are sitting in the car with me - you can only take from what I've written as how I've been driving for over 20 years. That's the nature of posting like this. I'm not a dangerous driver.

The 1st instance was poor judgement and I've taken on the useful feedback.

The next instance on the train track - very easy to get caught out like that but people have interpreted that like I'm the world stupidest driver, or words to that effect. An easy error to make, it really is, multiple things out of the ordinary happened which caused it to happen but of course, you learn from it. Clearly, that won't happen again. And on the same subject, the guy who became the self-proclaimed mobile traffic light - why is nobody commenting on that. Is he doing the right thing or not? That is the thread topic after all!

The most recent instance of the Tractor turning right while the guy behind me is overtaking - that's an instance where maybe I should have intervened. In all honesty, when you look at risk - if I stopped him completing his manoeuvre, I've virtually eliminated the risk from the situation. But according to some people here, I should just do nothing and let the risky manoeuvre take place? Can someone please explain to me in logical terms why that's the best course of action? I am prepared to listen and take on board a good reason.

When I've thought back on it - I rationalise it by saying that I can do no harm by intervening but by not intervening, something harmful could happen. As a rational thinker (at least, most of the times I try to be rational) I really struggle to find a reason 'not' to do something in this kind of scenario.


soupdragon1

Original Poster:

3,966 posts

96 months

Thursday 24th May 2018
quotequote all
Toltec said:
With the tractor you could have moved out for a look then just pulled back in and slowed or just simply slowed, this might have made the person behind realise that you had checked and decided the pass was not on making them take a better look themselves. If nothing else by slowing you would open a gap between you and the tractor to avoid the fallout of a collision.
That's what I did do - I slowed down - and so did the tractor and a second later, he was out from behind me. Happened so quickly.

Toltec

7,159 posts

222 months

Thursday 24th May 2018
quotequote all
soupdragon1 said:
That's what I did do - I slowed down - and so did the tractor and a second later, he was out from behind me. Happened so quickly.
Some people you cannot help, no damage and he will hopefully not do that again, if you had blocked the road he would not have learned anything.

LarsG

991 posts

74 months

Thursday 24th May 2018
quotequote all
soupdragon1 said:
I do, when the occasion presents itself.

Example

Heavy commute motorway traffic, we've 4 lanes of traffic about 2 miles long. Left 2 lanes go North, right 2 lanes go east. The left lanes move a lot slower, so you get lots of people going right hand lane all the way, 2ish miles and then cut in at the last minute. Quite dangerously at times, nipping into tiny gaps.

It's got to the point the left lanes are driving nose to tail to stop these people, but they still cut in anyway, aggressively at times.

So I self police.

I leave a very attractive gap, inviting them to cut in in a safe manner. But I drop a gear and sit bang in the optimum power band, ready to 'speed match' them. As they are about to pass me and take the big gap, I speed up. They soon realise I'm not letting them in and their plan is foiled.

They end up going down several miles of motorway which ends at a big roundabout which is always log jammed. They have to negotiate that, drive all the way back to the start of the 4 lane motorway and start all over again. Minimum 15 mins extra journey time, in their efforts to save I minute. Nice to serve some justice to others sometimes.

Anyone else self police on the road?

Edit.

After a lot of posts, and in line with popular opinion, this isn't clever at all. I'll not be doing this in future smile

Edited by soupdragon1 on Tuesday 22 May 18:29


Edited by soupdragon1 on Tuesday 22 May 22:12
Most people are a little more grown up

jimmy the hat

429 posts

146 months

Thursday 24th May 2018
quotequote all
On the one hand:

soupdragon1 said:
Good post Jim and that last line in particular is very good advice - keep your own driving predictable is a good Mantra to have.
On the other:

jimmy the hat said:
If they haven't thought it all the way through, anything, ANYTHING, that you do that's unexpected stands a much better chance of eliciting an adverse reaction than a good one. If it's already a 'dangerous' manouevre, adding a distraction or additional thought-process by hooting or flashing is only likely to make it much more so.
soupdragon1 said:
that's an instance where maybe I should have intervened. In all honesty, when you look at risk - if I stopped him completing his manoeuvre, I've virtually eliminated the risk from the situation. But according to some people here, I should just do nothing and let the risky manoeuvre take place? Can someone please explain to me in logical terms why that's the best course of action? I am prepared to listen and take on board a good reason.

When I've thought back on it - I rationalise it by saying that I can do no harm by intervening but by not intervening, something harmful could happen. As a rational thinker (at least, most of the times I try to be rational) I really struggle to find a reason 'not' to do something in this kind of scenario.
It's almost like you're not getting it. Quite a few people have said much the same thing in a variety of different ways but you just seem to be refusing to get it. Don't do anything.

If they drive into a tractor, it's their risky manouevre and their fault.

As Toltec says, if they nearly drive into the tractor but manage to stop/miss, maybe they learn something.

If you swerve to block them and don't manage to, they're distracted by you, less likely to realise the tractor's turning and more likely to hit it which is then their risky manouevre compounded by your determination to stick your nose in.

If they swerve and hit a tree then it's their risky manouevre compounded by your determination to stick your nose in.

In either of those scenarios, if the car behind them has a dash-cam recording their fiery death, you could find yourself in a lot of trouble.

That's my last try, I'm sure there'll be others only too happy to try to explain.

Cheers, Jim

Hatson

2,032 posts

121 months

Thursday 24th May 2018
quotequote all
Toltec said:
soupdragon1 said:
That's what I did do - I slowed down - and so did the tractor and a second later, he was out from behind me. Happened so quickly.
Some people you cannot help, no damage and he will hopefully not do that again, if you had blocked the road he would not have learned anything.
When you are blocking the overtake of the tractor and if the other driver tries to force his way by and you are trying to then change to full overtake or forcing him to run into a hedge be careful that you don't have a head on with someone coming the other way because you're blocking explanation is not going to go down well.

edit. I see jimmy the hat has done a more comprehensive appraisal of your proposed stunt.


Edited by Hatson on Thursday 24th May 14:54

soupdragon1

Original Poster:

3,966 posts

96 months

Thursday 24th May 2018
quotequote all
jimmy the hat said:
It's almost like you're not getting it. Quite a few people have said much the same thing in a variety of different ways but you just seem to be refusing to get it. Don't do anything.

If they drive into a tractor, it's their risky manouevre and their fault.

As Toltec says, if they nearly drive into the tractor but manage to stop/miss, maybe they learn something.

If you swerve to block them and don't manage to, they're distracted by you, less likely to realise the tractor's turning and more likely to hit it which is then their risky manouevre compounded by your determination to stick your nose in.

If they swerve and hit a tree then it's their risky manouevre compounded by your determination to stick your nose in.

In either of those scenarios, if the car behind them has a dash-cam recording their fiery death, you could find yourself in a lot of trouble.

That's my last try, I'm sure there'll be others only too happy to try to explain.

Cheers, Jim
I am getting it, I really am but people don't really seem to be getting me.

To start with, its a tractor, and tractors obviously go slow, especially when they are slowing down to turn. Not a high speed incident. I also described the road became clear in front, so no other cars were coming - this is what made the overtake possible. Just the tractor, me, and the chap behind.

And I do get the point that he will learn something by realising he nearly had a collision. But he would learn it anyway - if I didn't let him overtake then he would have quickly figured out the reason - ie - the tractor takes his right turn and that is clearly visible. He'll have likely been glad he couldn't 'blind pass' on this occasion.

As it stands - he overtook both of us and might not have any idea that the tractor was turning - I don't know if he checked his mirror or not. So he may have learned nothing at all.

In summary, how people think its best to do nothing here is beyond me....there is no risk to, lets call it, 'helping out' another driver. You've actually reduced the risk significantly.

Edit:

and just to add - I originally said to 'pretend' to overtake - not 'swerve' into their path. That would increase the risk for everyone by doing that - obviously.




Edited by soupdragon1 on Thursday 24th May 16:16

Kuji

785 posts

121 months

Thursday 24th May 2018
quotequote all
Has anyone else noticed the same cars and drivers making the same mistakes on the same junctions at roughly the same time every day.

Well bks to you and yours if you think I’m going to smile and deliberately slow down to make room for one these known and recognised repeat offenders. And NO I don’t mean a genuinely lost and confused driver OR a merge in turn zipper.


Edited by Kuji on Thursday 24th May 18:26

jeremyh1

1,349 posts

126 months

Thursday 24th May 2018
quotequote all
not again !

Schermerhorn

4,342 posts

188 months

Thursday 24th May 2018
quotequote all
soupdragon1 said:
I do, when the occasion presents itself.

Example

Heavy commute motorway traffic, we've 4 lanes of traffic about 2 miles long. Left 2 lanes go North, right 2 lanes go east. The left lanes move a lot slower, so you get lots of people going right hand lane all the way, 2ish miles and then cut in at the last minute. Quite dangerously at times, nipping into tiny gaps.

It's got to the point the left lanes are driving nose to tail to stop these people, but they still cut in anyway, aggressively at times.

So I self police.

I leave a very attractive gap, inviting them to cut in in a safe manner. But I drop a gear and sit bang in the optimum power band, ready to 'speed match' them. As they are about to pass me and take the big gap, I speed up. They soon realise I'm not letting them in and their plan is foiled.

They end up going down several miles of motorway which ends at a big roundabout which is always log jammed. They have to negotiate that, drive all the way back to the start of the 4 lane motorway and start all over again. Minimum 15 mins extra journey time, in their efforts to save I minute. Nice to serve some justice to others sometimes.

Anyone else self police on the road?

Edit.

After a lot of posts, and in line with popular opinion, this isn't clever at all. I'll not be doing this in future smile

Edited by soupdragon1 on Tuesday 22 May 18:29


Edited by soupdragon1 on Tuesday 22 May 22:12
If someone did that to me out of pure pettiness and revelled in it I would probably get out of the car and punch their lights out....just to be a bigger c*nt.

nonsequitur

20,083 posts

115 months

Thursday 24th May 2018
quotequote all
Schermerhorn said:
soupdragon1 said:
I do, when the occasion presents itself.

Example

Heavy commute motorway traffic, we've 4 lanes of traffic about 2 miles long. Left 2 lanes go North, right 2 lanes go east. The left lanes move a lot slower, so you get lots of people going right hand lane all the way, 2ish miles and then cut in at the last minute. Quite dangerously at times, nipping into tiny gaps.

It's got to the point the left lanes are driving nose to tail to stop these people, but they still cut in anyway, aggressively at times.

So I self police.

I leave a very attractive gap, inviting them to cut in in a safe manner. But I drop a gear and sit bang in the optimum power band, ready to 'speed match' them. As they are about to pass me and take the big gap, I speed up. They soon realise I'm not letting them in and their plan is foiled.

They end up going down several miles of motorway which ends at a big roundabout which is always log jammed. They have to negotiate that, drive all the way back to the start of the 4 lane motorway and start all over again. Minimum 15 mins extra journey time, in their efforts to save I minute. Nice to serve some justice to others sometimes.

Anyone else self police on the road?

Edit.

After a lot of posts, and in line with popular opinion, this isn't clever at all. I'll not be doing this in future smile

Edited by soupdragon1 on Tuesday 22 May 18:29


Edited by soupdragon1 on Tuesday 22 May 22:12
If someone did that to me out of pure pettiness and revelled in it I would probably get out of the car and punch their lights out....just to be a bigger c*nt.
yikes

nonsequitur

20,083 posts

115 months

Thursday 24th May 2018
quotequote all
Well, twelve pages on it has been an entertaining and informative thread. Mr. Soup dragon is no consomme, but rather a big helping of mothers thick chicken broth.wavey

Woody John

759 posts

72 months

Thursday 24th May 2018
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I often give the slow down signal to fast idiots driving in the opposite direction. Most don't pay heed.

jeremyh1

1,349 posts

126 months

Thursday 24th May 2018
quotequote all
Schermerhorn said:
If someone did that to me out of pure pettiness and revelled in it I would probably get out of the car and punch their lights out....just to be a bigger c*nt.
Thats what I like to hear I dont bother other motorist and I will always help anybody that needs help but that is exactly how I feel too about this type of person

FiF

43,965 posts

250 months

Thursday 24th May 2018
quotequote all
I've mentioned on another thread that there are people on the roads who treat blocking other people from changing lanes as some sort of game. Particular stretches they play this game is in average camera controlled sections. You can see them deliberately speeding up and slowing down in blocking manoeuvres.

Such drivers should have their licences removed, jousting with cars is not funny nor clever.

Hatson

2,032 posts

121 months

Thursday 24th May 2018
quotequote all
Obviously we're just trying to be helpful to the OP and block his thread a bit by giving him a chance to speak and then cutting him off with corrections so that he learns that this self-policing is not the right gambit and the fact he has had to detour by a few hours and missed out on the literary journey he expected is a fair price for him to pay to learn this lesson. biglaugh