IOM TT 2018 Car Lap record run?

[The Mad Monk]

As I indicated I haven't read the whole thread.

Is it possible to put a Formula 1 car round the TT circuit? Or is it not allowed for some reason?

[RobM77]

The Mad Monk said:

As I indicated I haven't read the whole thread.

Is it possible to put a Formula 1 car round the TT circuit? Or is it not allowed for some reason?

The course is on public roads and goes through lots of 30mph limits. It’s only open as a complete unrestricted course during the TT and Manx GP (I think they’re the same course?), so it’s down to the organisers, and the schedule is rammed full with bike races. Old F1 cars regularly run on parts of the course during hill climbs, and point to point they’re obviously ahead of the bikes, even with old DFVs in the back and driven timidly (as they always are), so that’s the closest you’ll get I'm afraid. It's a bike meeting.

Edited by RobM77 on Thursday 16th May 14:09

[R-t6t6s]

Based on William's experience in Baku, an F1 car would struggle to get round the TT course without a fair amount of work!

[Jim Spencer]

RobM77 said:

The course is on public roads and goes through lots of 30mph limits. It’s only open as a complete unrestricted course during the TT and Manx GP (I think they’re the same course?), so it’s down to the organisers, and the schedule is rammed full with bike races. Old F1 cars regularly run on parts of the course during hill climbs, and point to point they’re obviously ahead of the bikes, even with old DFVs in the back and driven timidly (as they always are), so that’s the closest you’ll get I'm afraid. It's a bike meeting.

Edited by RobM77 on Thursday 16th May 14:09

Nope, sorry that's rubbish, 'old F1 cars' at hillclimbs, nope doesn't happen, not been seen for donkey's years.. they'd be hopelessly uncompetitive too, way too big, too heavy, too little go from a DFV..
As for the single seaters being driven timidly that's just silly..
That's just as daft as somebody saying that Irwin was out for a lazy drive in the sunshine a few minutes ago..

The vast majority of competitors, in all motorsport disciplines are, generally speaking, giving it 10/10 they might be a bit older and slower further back down the grid.. but 'timid' it isn't..
The bit that's really sad reading this, which is meant to be a forum for enthusiasts, is that people don't grasp the very basics about other bits of the motorsport sphere, other than the bit their interested in - and even then it's quite amazing how ignorant some people can be about the bit they say they are interested in.. weird..

The TT event is Epic, speaking as a competitor from a different world totally..

As for what's quickest - who give's a rats arse..

[RemyMartin81D]

Maybe take your 320d round

[RobM77]

Jim Spencer said:

RobM77 said:

The course is on public roads and goes through lots of 30mph limits. It’s only open as a complete unrestricted course during the TT and Manx GP (I think they’re the same course?), so it’s down to the organisers, and the schedule is rammed full with bike races. Old F1 cars regularly run on parts of the course during hill climbs, and point to point they’re obviously ahead of the bikes, even with old DFVs in the back and driven timidly (as they always are), so that’s the closest you’ll get I'm afraid. It's a bike meeting.

Edited by RobM77 on Thursday 16th May 14:09

Nope, sorry that's rubbish, 'old F1 cars' at hillclimbs, nope doesn't happen, not been seen for donkey's years.. they'd be hopelessly uncompetitive too, way too big, too heavy, too little go from a DFV..
As for the single seaters being driven timidly that's just silly..
That's just as daft as somebody saying that Irwin was out for a lazy drive in the sunshine a few minutes ago..

The vast majority of competitors, in all motorsport disciplines are, generally speaking, giving it 10/10 they might be a bit older and slower further back down the grid.. but 'timid' it isn't..
The bit that's really sad reading this, which is meant to be a forum for enthusiasts, is that people don't grasp the very basics about other bits of the motorsport sphere, other than the bit their interested in - and even then it's quite amazing how ignorant some people can be about the bit they say they are interested in.. weird..

The TT event is Epic, speaking as a competitor from a different world totally..

As for what's quickest - who give's a rats arse..

It's not rubbish. A few years ago on a similar thread I posted videos of an old F1 car and of the current lap record. I timed both and posted them up. You can search the PH archives and find the post.

My comment about the timid driving wasn't silly either. Find the thread and watch the videos and you'll agree. Plenty of wealthy guys buy F1 cars; almost none of them can drive them quickly, which isn't exactly a surprise. Forget F1, that applies right the way down through club motorsport whenever you get really fast cars, especially if it rains (F3000, F3, Radicals etc). I've been racing for nearly 20 years and I know I'd absolutely st myself in an F3000 car, let alone an F1 car. It's only really at the lower echelons of motorsport (Formula Ford, Minis, Caterhams etc) where everyone's on the ragged edge.

Edited by RobM77 on Thursday 16th May 15:33

[Jim Spencer]

RobM77 said:

It's not rubbish. A few years ago on a similar thread I posted videos of an old F1 car and of the current lap record. I timed both and posted them up. You can search the PH archives and find the post.

My comment about the timid driving wasn't silly either. Find the thread and watch the videos and you'll agree. Plenty of wealthy guys buy F1 cars; almost none of them can drive them quickly, which isn't exactly a surprise. I've been racing for nearly 20 years and I'd absolutely st myself in an F1 car

Yeah it is, the IoM 'hillclimb' isn't what one would call 'representative' it's like comparing the TT with a clubbie bike meeting at Aintree..

If one want's to compare the pinnacle of bike racing, with Hillclimbing then compare it to the BHC - old F1's haven't been seen for decades, hopelessly out of date.
Not that you'd want to take a current Hillclimb single seater on the TT course, it's wayyy too bumpy and cambered for that.. plus we'd run out of fuel half way round (if that..)

As for your 320d.. I got chauffeured round in the back of a Renault Megane with running commentary by a ex racer and one of the top lads sponsors a couple of years ago.. was very enlightening and I'm used to going up narrow strips of tarmac at some speed.. I can thoroughly recommend a trip to the island, even if it's to just have a bit of a holiday - and sneak a sedate lap or two in..

[f1nn]

BaronVonVaderham said:

iguana said:

Such an odd thread with odd views, I utterly love the TT it's just mega, but a Porsche 919 evo that's pretty much the fastest thing on 4 wheels at the mo & breaking lap records everywhere, proper driver, time to set up etc etc, the lap time would be so much faster than bikes it would be another planet, to argue otherwise is both daft & futile.

Exactly, the 919 would probably average 150+.

What odd is why our 2 wheeled fans on here can’t accept this?

150?, why not 160, hell, even 170mph...

I can’t accept this as it hasn’t happened. It may happen, but it hasn’t.

[blade7]

RobM77 said:

blade7 said:

RobM77 said:

Lap times are like facts to Brexit supporters: in one ear and out the other, because they don’t re-enforce previously held irrational beliefs. Harsh, but true.

And opinions are like facts to some on here. Sure a 919 not restricted by any regulations and given a free solo run, would probably beat a bike that is, plenty of bike fans acknowledge that. But the FACT remains that a car hasn't and probably won't for a long time, go faster than a bike around the IOM TT course. I like cars but I'm not going to start frothing and spitting over what probably is the last road course in the world where the bike is still king.

But that's only true because the course is exclusively ridden on by bikes How many cars have done the full course? Tony Pond in the big old Rover when I was a kid and a few attempts by the loony tuned Subaru?! On every track in the world where bikes and cars run in plentiful numbers, the cars are always quicker - there are literally no exceptions to that. That's not just smooth race tracks, but it's hillclimb circuits too, many using parts of the OIM TT course. It's not a small difference either; as mentioned earlier we're talking huge chunks of time.

It's a bit like asking whether a motorbike or runner would be quicker around the London Marathon course. So far, the runners have it. In a hypothetical argument though, it'd be a bit odd to back a 13mph runner.

Edited by RobM77 on Thursday 16th May 12:01

I'd dare say Porsche have the means to have the course shut for 3 or 4 hours. In the meantime your opinion, like your bragging about lap records and instructing is just so much hot air.

Edited by blade7 on Thursday 16th May 15:48

[Jim Spencer]

RobM77 said:

My comment about the timid driving wasn't silly either. Find the thread and watch the videos and you'll agree. Plenty of wealthy guys buy F1 cars; almost none of them can drive them quickly, which isn't exactly a surprise. Forget F1, that applies right the way down through club motorsport whenever you get really fast cars, especially if it rains (F3000, F3, Radicals etc). I've been racing for nearly 20 years and I know I'd absolutely st myself in an F3000 car, let alone an F1 car. It's only really at the lower echelons of motorsport (Formula Ford, Minis, Caterhams etc) where everyone's on the ragged edge.

Edited by RobM77 on Thursday 16th May 15:33

Hi, your revised bit - yup I'd agree with that, but that's not what you put, you picked on Hillclimbs, and were comparing Apples and Pears.. they're not like that and never have been, even when people were running old F1 chassis (very rare indeed, some up too the 80's maybe 1 or 2 since then..) and DFV's (more common in the 80's and early 90's) they were generally giving them 10/10...

My point is that, generally speaking, people not understanding other aspects of the motorsport sphere and having a pop, is generally just demonstrating their ignorance about it.. I suspect, most of us couldn't give a monkey's if theoretically Porsche could re-engineer their monster to cope with the course and make it go quicker, likewise I'm 100% certain any of the bike brands could do likewise and so on.. but it simply doesn't matter..

The TT is what it is - all enthusiasts should simply appreciate it still being in existence, biker of not, as it's still a bit of the motorsport world we're in, even if that particular bit of it isn't out cup of tea..

[RobM77]

Jim Spencer said:

RobM77 said:

My comment about the timid driving wasn't silly either. Find the thread and watch the videos and you'll agree. Plenty of wealthy guys buy F1 cars; almost none of them can drive them quickly, which isn't exactly a surprise. Forget F1, that applies right the way down through club motorsport whenever you get really fast cars, especially if it rains (F3000, F3, Radicals etc). I've been racing for nearly 20 years and I know I'd absolutely st myself in an F3000 car, let alone an F1 car. It's only really at the lower echelons of motorsport (Formula Ford, Minis, Caterhams etc) where everyone's on the ragged edge.

Edited by RobM77 on Thursday 16th May 15:33

Hi, your revised bit - yup I'd agree with that, but that's not what you put, you picked on Hillclimbs, and were comparing Apples and Pears.. they're not like that and never have been, even when people were running old F1 chassis (very rare indeed, some up too the 80's maybe 1 or 2 since then..) and DFV's (more common in the 80's and early 90's) they were generally giving them 10/10...

My point is that, generally speaking, people not understanding other aspects of the motorsport sphere and having a pop, is generally just demonstrating their ignorance about it.. I suspect, most of us couldn't give a monkey's if theoretically Porsche could re-engineer their monster to cope with the course and make it go quicker, likewise I'm 100% certain any of the bike brands could do likewise and so on.. but it simply doesn't matter..

The TT is what it is - all enthusiasts should simply appreciate it still being in existence, biker of not, as it's still a bit of the motorsport world we're in, even if that particular bit of it isn't out cup of tea..

Admittedly most of my experience is from circuit racing, but I've followed the TT since I was a kid, loosely followed road racing and have been to a number of hillclimbs. Where cars and bikes both run, consistently the cars are always faster by quite a margin. We're not talking about specially engineered 919s or anything like that, just normal racing cars. People seem very defensive about that on here. To be clear I am in no way saying which is 'better' or 'more fun', I'm simply stating a fact. For example, an RS4 is quicker than a Ford Ka, but I'd far rather drive the Ka. As you can see from my profile, I've raced a variety of cars spanning a vast difference in lap times, and I can say for sure that speed does not correlate with enjoyment.

[Jim Spencer]

RobM77 said:

Admittedly most of my experience is from circuit racing, but I've followed the TT since I was a kid, loosely followed road racing and have been to a number of hillclimbs. Where cars and bikes both run, consistently the cars are always faster by quite a margin. We're not talking about specially engineered 919s or anything like that, just normal racing cars. People seem very defensive about that on here. To be clear I am in no way saying which is 'better' or 'more fun', I'm simply stating a fact. For example, an RS4 is quicker than a Ford Ka, but I'd far rather drive the Ka. As you can see from my profile, I've raced a variety of cars spanning a vast difference in lap times, and I can say for sure that speed does not correlate with enjoyment.

Ok so we're now getting to the point you're trying to make, and seemingly have been for years:-

Car are faster round a track than Bikes and you're trying to make the point that they would be round the TT course.

Great, that may be true, but So What?

It doesn't, or shouldn't, matter in the slightest.. to anybody who actually appreciates Motorsport - appreciate it for what it is, anything more is just waffle, it's no different to the 'discussion' outside most McD's on who's hatchback is the quickest..

You're flogging a dead horse - those that know, know - those that don't know won't get it - those that Really Know, won't care..

[RobM77]

Jim Spencer said:

RobM77 said:

Admittedly most of my experience is from circuit racing, but I've followed the TT since I was a kid, loosely followed road racing and have been to a number of hillclimbs. Where cars and bikes both run, consistently the cars are always faster by quite a margin. We're not talking about specially engineered 919s or anything like that, just normal racing cars. People seem very defensive about that on here. To be clear I am in no way saying which is 'better' or 'more fun', I'm simply stating a fact. For example, an RS4 is quicker than a Ford Ka, but I'd far rather drive the Ka. As you can see from my profile, I've raced a variety of cars spanning a vast difference in lap times, and I can say for sure that speed does not correlate with enjoyment.

Ok so we're now getting to the point you're trying to make, and seemingly have been for years:-

Car are faster round a track than Bikes and you're trying to make the point that they would be round the TT course.

Great, that may be true, but So What?

It doesn't, or shouldn't, matter in the slightest.. to anybody who actually appreciates Motorsport - appreciate it for what it is, anything more is just waffle, it's no different to the 'discussion' outside most McD's on who's hatchback is the quickest..

You're flogging a dead horse - those that know, know - those that don't know won't get it - those that Really Know, won't care..

That's right, yes. No, it doesn't matter. Since someone asked though...

[thegreenhell]

Red 5 said:

Welshbeef said:

BaronVonVaderham said:

Exactly, the 919 would probably average 150+.

What odd is why our 2 wheeled fans on here can’t accept this?

Circuit too bouncy off camber rutted drain covers cannot straight line bits cannot do the bridge

Bouncy, offcamber, rutted, drain covers?

These are some specific things that cars can deal with, WAY better than bikes.
No matter if they are experienced on straights, or corners, be they wet or dry!

Straight lining sections at +/-1G is so unbelievably slow, compared to taking the same corners at +/-5G in a 919evo.

Btw, cars also jump and land better than bikes too.
(Not sure a 919 would like that, or be suited in a TT set-up)
However, slowing for a single obstacle is trifling, over a course so long.


Yes, cars cost more.
Yes, bike riders are more daring.

Don't forget that the Isle of Man is not a real place. It does not actually exist. It's a mystical land lost in the fog somewhere in the middle of the Irish sea where the normal laws of physics do not apply, a bit like Skull Island where King Kong lives. In this mystical land, no fast car can survive a lap of the TT course, and only brave men in leather onesies riding petrol-powered stallions can conquer the mountain. Anyone who questions the divine right of the leather-clad heroes will be smote by their disciples on the internet.

[anonymous-user]

thegreenhell said:

Don't forget that the Isle of Man is not a real place. It does not actually exist. It's a mystical land lost in the fog somewhere in the middle of the Irish sea where the normal laws of physics do not apply, a bit like Skull Island where King Kong lives. In this mystical land, no fast car can survive a lap of the TT course, and only brave men in leather onesies riding petrol-powered stallions can conquer the mountain. Anyone who questions the divine right of the leather-clad heroes will be smote by their disciples on the internet.

Bloody hope not, I’ve got a house there and I’m planning to be off to the TT in one week’s time.

Plenty of suoercar owners try to take on bikes during TT fortnight and fail miserably, usually ending up in the scenery somewhere or at best get in the way. Perhaps your theory about wieird physics holding them back is correct?

[Welshbeef]

So the difference between the Suburu is 53 seconds on 17 odd minutes.

Given said Suburu with its maximum power (700bhp wasn’t achieved in IOM as has been discussed so many times Mark H stated it was planes to have max power on the last run so it was a 600odd bhp Suburu) 700bhp and it lapped the Green Hell in 7 minutes..... the 919 did it in 5mins 17seconds...so 1 minute c40seconds quicker on a lap time of 7 mins.

The 919 is a Le Mans racer so think 24hrs at sprint pace without issue.

It’s dimensions are smaller than the Suburu

So um - oh yes active aero and 1,400bhp
I’d assume it will be biblically quicker - maybe a 10minute flag laptime.

[Vaud]

Welshbeef said:

So um - oh yes active aero and 1,400bhp
I’d assume it will be biblically quicker - maybe a 10minute flag laptime.

It's a simulation, but one of the better ones and by a fairly handy driver. 13mins. Not 10.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD382MqXPB8

edit: fixed url

Edited by Vaud on Thursday 16th May 20:29

[Welshbeef]

Vaud said:

Welshbeef said:

So um - oh yes active aero and 1,400bhp
I’d assume it will be biblically quicker - maybe a 10minute flag laptime.

It's a simulation, but one of the better ones and by a fairly handy driver. 13mins. Not 10.

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD382MqXPB8/url]

Not a racing driver but as you say handy.

[DoubleD]

Welshbeef said:

Vaud said:

Welshbeef said:

So um - oh yes active aero and 1,400bhp
I’d assume it will be biblically quicker - maybe a 10minute flag laptime.

It's a simulation, but one of the better ones and by a fairly handy driver. 13mins. Not 10.

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD382MqXPB8/url]

Not a racing driver but as you say handy.

Thats a computer game. You need a simulator like a top F1 team would use before you could say that it was close ish to a real time.

[anonymous-user]

Vaud said:

Welshbeef said:

So um - oh yes active aero and 1,400bhp
I’d assume it will be biblically quicker - maybe a 10minute flag laptime.

It's a simulation, but one of the better ones and by a fairly handy driver. 13mins. Not 10.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD382MqXPB8

edit: fixed url

Edited by Vaud on Thursday 16th May 20:29

WTF is that? It’s nothing like the TT circuit. They’ve missed out entire sections, is it based on somewhere in rural France?

Retarded!