Used cars not selling?
Discussion
Earthdweller said:
Dog Star said:
I'm cool with leasing, PCP not so much and I'd never even consider a PCP without a guaranteed future value. My brother in law has just fallen foul of this when his car is worth 5k less than his balloon with a year still to go 
I fail to see what he has fallen foul of .. other than being protected from £5k + of loss The final value of xx is guaranteed by the finance co .. so even if it’s worth £10k less than the end value in a year he hasn’t lost any more money ... the finance company carries the risk ?
He can just keep the car full term and walk away surely ?
Only if he wants to buy it at end of term must he make a decision to pay xx for something only worth yy
Tannedbaldhead said:
Most finance companies carry insurance. Should you lose your job or become too ill to work two or three monthly payments are covered.
Thereafter the car is returned without financial penalty. (Not sure how this would effect credit ratings).
I have to say I've never heard that before. Do you mean the finance company is insured against people defaulting? In that case you'd still owe the money.Thereafter the car is returned without financial penalty. (Not sure how this would effect credit ratings).
If you get sick or lose your job you could be stuffed, especially if you took on a car which is sold new at a heavy discount.
Taking on high levels of cheap finance has become normalised over the past 10-20yrs.
if I look back at my parents and people of their generation they never all had new cars every few years. It just wasn't normal back then. If you earned 30k pa then generally you had a car costing around a third of that. Not like now where folk will be earning 30k and running around in a car valued at 40k.
Going back a generation earlier it was all make do and mend. Cars were mostly heald together with rust, there were some right s
t boxes on the roads, if you could afford to run one.
Where's the better place to be....I'd say now!
Is it sustainable......no!
But the manufacturers have normalised cheap luxury cars to people that wouldn't necessarily otherwise afford them, if the credit supply stops, what do they do next?
Buying trends will generally follow whatever is freely and easily available, which is why pcp and lease rule for now and OP can't sell his used cars. Think about how many small used car lots there used to be dotted around the towns 10-20yrs ago compared to now, how cheap you could pick up a car for.
Maybe we'll see a demand on used cars again if interest rates go up to 'normal' levels and the cheap credit dries up. However due to the normalisation of having a 40k Audi/BMW/merc on the drive and the reluctance to accept the reality of the situation I expect if that happens there will be a large proportion of people that can't see beyond what they have become accustomed, meaning more financial stretching and commitments.
We'll see eh.
if I look back at my parents and people of their generation they never all had new cars every few years. It just wasn't normal back then. If you earned 30k pa then generally you had a car costing around a third of that. Not like now where folk will be earning 30k and running around in a car valued at 40k.
Going back a generation earlier it was all make do and mend. Cars were mostly heald together with rust, there were some right s
t boxes on the roads, if you could afford to run one. Where's the better place to be....I'd say now!
Is it sustainable......no!
But the manufacturers have normalised cheap luxury cars to people that wouldn't necessarily otherwise afford them, if the credit supply stops, what do they do next?
Buying trends will generally follow whatever is freely and easily available, which is why pcp and lease rule for now and OP can't sell his used cars. Think about how many small used car lots there used to be dotted around the towns 10-20yrs ago compared to now, how cheap you could pick up a car for.
Maybe we'll see a demand on used cars again if interest rates go up to 'normal' levels and the cheap credit dries up. However due to the normalisation of having a 40k Audi/BMW/merc on the drive and the reluctance to accept the reality of the situation I expect if that happens there will be a large proportion of people that can't see beyond what they have become accustomed, meaning more financial stretching and commitments.
We'll see eh.
Sheepshanks said:
Tannedbaldhead said:
Most finance companies carry insurance. Should you lose your job or become too ill to work two or three monthly payments are covered.
Thereafter the car is returned without financial penalty. (Not sure how this would effect credit ratings).
I have to say I've never heard that before. Do you mean the finance company is insured against people defaulting? In that case you'd still owe the money.Thereafter the car is returned without financial penalty. (Not sure how this would effect credit ratings).
If you get sick or lose your job you could be stuffed, especially if you took on a car which is sold new at a heavy discount.
That said if you get to contract end unscathed.
It's all swings and roundabouts. There are some ridiculously cheap lease deals that make the loss of flexibility of a PCP look very worthwhile.
lord trumpton said:
With the 'cash' deal then I think it harks back to when money traceability wasn't as sharp as it is now, money laundering checks, payment limits etc weren't as common.
Actually it harkens back to the day when cash was your only option for immediate payment.There are still places in the world where this happens. Try buying a used car in Perth, Western Australia. You've got two options, a bank cheque (A.K.A. bankers draft) or cash. For smaller amounts the bank cheque is a pain in the arse as it requires you to go to the bank to get it and the seller to go to the bank to cash it (bank cheques in Oz are pretty hard to forge and very quick to verify as well as cashing instantly), for larger amounts its bank cheque as you cant just withdraw $10,000 over the counter these days.
With the faster payments system in the UK, cheques are redundant and cash is no longer your only option for instant payment.
Tannedbaldhead said:
Sheepshanks said:
Tannedbaldhead said:
Most finance companies carry insurance. Should you lose your job or become too ill to work two or three monthly payments are covered.
Thereafter the car is returned without financial penalty. (Not sure how this would effect credit ratings).
I have to say I've never heard that before. Do you mean the finance company is insured against people defaulting? In that case you'd still owe the money.Thereafter the car is returned without financial penalty. (Not sure how this would effect credit ratings).
If you get sick or lose your job you could be stuffed, especially if you took on a car which is sold new at a heavy discount.
That said if you get to contract end unscathed.
It's all swings and roundabouts. There are some ridiculously cheap lease deals that make the loss of flexibility of a PCP look very worthwhile.
swisstoni said:
This ‘where do all the old lease cars go and why aren’t the s/h prices at rock bottom’ question has come up a few times over the years.
If cars can’t be re-leased or sold for a good price I would not be surprised if they weren’t being disappeared by those with a vested interest in there not being a good supply of cheap 3 year old cars about.
Just an idea - I’ve got no proof whatsoever.
They sit at airfields until the market requires them - unsustainable.If cars can’t be re-leased or sold for a good price I would not be surprised if they weren’t being disappeared by those with a vested interest in there not being a good supply of cheap 3 year old cars about.
Just an idea - I’ve got no proof whatsoever.
Edible Roadkill said:
Taking on high levels of cheap finance has become normalised over the past 10-20yrs.
if I look back at my parents and people of their generation they never all had new cars every few years. It just wasn't normal back then. If you earned 30k pa then generally you had a car costing around a third of that. Not like now where folk will be earning 30k and running around in a car valued at 40k.
Going back a generation earlier it was all make do and mend. Cars were mostly heald together with rust, there were some right st boxes on the roads, if you could afford to run one.
Where's the better place to be....I'd say now!
Is it sustainable......no!
But the manufacturers have normalised cheap luxury cars to people that wouldn't necessarily otherwise afford them, if the credit supply stops, what do they do next?
Buying trends will generally follow whatever is freely and easily available, which is why pcp and lease rule for now and OP can't sell his used cars. Think about how many small used car lots there used to be dotted around the towns 10-20yrs ago compared to now, how cheap you could pick up a car for.
Maybe we'll see a demand on used cars again if interest rates go up to 'normal' levels and the cheap credit dries up. However due to the normalisation of having a 40k Audi/BMW/merc on the drive and the reluctance to accept the reality of the situation I expect if that happens there will be a large proportion of people that can't see beyond what they have become accustomed, meaning more financial stretching and commitments.
We'll see eh.
You are absolutely right about the old days. But there was a sort of parallel with today in what people did with tellys back then. if I look back at my parents and people of their generation they never all had new cars every few years. It just wasn't normal back then. If you earned 30k pa then generally you had a car costing around a third of that. Not like now where folk will be earning 30k and running around in a car valued at 40k.
Going back a generation earlier it was all make do and mend. Cars were mostly heald together with rust, there were some right s
t boxes on the roads, if you could afford to run one. Where's the better place to be....I'd say now!
Is it sustainable......no!
But the manufacturers have normalised cheap luxury cars to people that wouldn't necessarily otherwise afford them, if the credit supply stops, what do they do next?
Buying trends will generally follow whatever is freely and easily available, which is why pcp and lease rule for now and OP can't sell his used cars. Think about how many small used car lots there used to be dotted around the towns 10-20yrs ago compared to now, how cheap you could pick up a car for.
Maybe we'll see a demand on used cars again if interest rates go up to 'normal' levels and the cheap credit dries up. However due to the normalisation of having a 40k Audi/BMW/merc on the drive and the reluctance to accept the reality of the situation I expect if that happens there will be a large proportion of people that can't see beyond what they have become accustomed, meaning more financial stretching and commitments.
We'll see eh.
They were very expensive to buy and unreliable. Lots of people rented for what looked like quite a high monthly amount. But when they went wrong they got a replacement and they got to choose new telly every couple of years.
Others bought new, hoped for the best and paid to get them fixed and hung on to them for years.
My parents were in the latter category. Overall I think they got to watch TV for less. But everyone got fleeced one way or another.
Today TVs are relatively cheap to buy. There is no market worth a darn in used ones. People just chuck them and get a new one.
I wonder if that is where we end up with cars.
MC Bodge said:
Indeed.
The truth about cars with 30-100K(+) miles is that they are not all about to expire or cost £1,000s every month. Few people know about cars and have been fed the line,
"you can't fix modern cars yourself", so they think that any work will be really difficult or expensive.
It will be interesting to see what is out there when I come to purchase. Used, mid -powered petrol turbo family estate cars are likely to be in short supply for a while.
There is also that old school mindset that cars with over 50k on them are on their last legs, I think it's a generational thing as well. I bought a Saab with 130k on it and my Mum thought I was mental because cars back in the day wouldn't get anywhere near that far. I think that still filters down but also people think low mileage equals better, hence a preference for new. The truth about cars with 30-100K(+) miles is that they are not all about to expire or cost £1,000s every month. Few people know about cars and have been fed the line,
"you can't fix modern cars yourself", so they think that any work will be really difficult or expensive.
It will be interesting to see what is out there when I come to purchase. Used, mid -powered petrol turbo family estate cars are likely to be in short supply for a while.
I haven't always been an advocate for high milers but in recent years have had a couple of cars that have shown me how usable an old, quality car can be and so far haven't received any eye watering bills!
Deep Thought said:
lord trumpton said:
With the 'cash' deal then I think it harks back to when money traceability wasn't as sharp as it is now, money laundering checks, payment limits etc weren't as common.
The 'how much for cash' question was more a veiled way of saying 'Ill pay you cash and you can decide if you want to fiddle you books and line your pocket but I want a discount for doing so'
With private buyers then this too has little appeal as a cheque or lengthy 3 day transfer over the phone has gone. Now someone can transfer the payment on their phone and the seller can check it's there within minutes. So why accept a lot of paper stuff that has to be counted and could possibly contain some forgeries? Then when you go to pay it in, the banks treats you like a criminal and wants to know where it's come from.
Cash these days is a dirty word and one more step to a cashless society.
Aside from ease foe the consumer - the real push from the government/treasury is to have maximised taxation and none that goes missing
+1The 'how much for cash' question was more a veiled way of saying 'Ill pay you cash and you can decide if you want to fiddle you books and line your pocket but I want a discount for doing so'
With private buyers then this too has little appeal as a cheque or lengthy 3 day transfer over the phone has gone. Now someone can transfer the payment on their phone and the seller can check it's there within minutes. So why accept a lot of paper stuff that has to be counted and could possibly contain some forgeries? Then when you go to pay it in, the banks treats you like a criminal and wants to know where it's come from.
Cash these days is a dirty word and one more step to a cashless society.
Aside from ease foe the consumer - the real push from the government/treasury is to have maximised taxation and none that goes missing
Wholly all of this.
We're in whats becoming a cashless society.
Even buskers these days can take electronic payment:
https://news.sky.com/story/london-buskers-first-in...
A point entirely lost on my local Gym (run by the council I think) who only accept cash or cheque for single use of the facilities. Nearest cash point was a a mile away. I was on foot. For the £7 a time they charge to use the gym, they can bloody well afford the little device to make the payment electronic. Some places really do live in the past.
swisstoni said:
Edible Roadkill said:
Taking on high levels of cheap finance has become normalised over the past 10-20yrs.
if I look back at my parents and people of their generation they never all had new cars every few years. It just wasn't normal back then. If you earned 30k pa then generally you had a car costing around a third of that. Not like now where folk will be earning 30k and running around in a car valued at 40k.
Going back a generation earlier it was all make do and mend. Cars were mostly heald together with rust, there were some right st boxes on the roads, if you could afford to run one.
Where's the better place to be....I'd say now!
Is it sustainable......no!
But the manufacturers have normalised cheap luxury cars to people that wouldn't necessarily otherwise afford them, if the credit supply stops, what do they do next?
Buying trends will generally follow whatever is freely and easily available, which is why pcp and lease rule for now and OP can't sell his used cars. Think about how many small used car lots there used to be dotted around the towns 10-20yrs ago compared to now, how cheap you could pick up a car for.
Maybe we'll see a demand on used cars again if interest rates go up to 'normal' levels and the cheap credit dries up. However due to the normalisation of having a 40k Audi/BMW/merc on the drive and the reluctance to accept the reality of the situation I expect if that happens there will be a large proportion of people that can't see beyond what they have become accustomed, meaning more financial stretching and commitments.
We'll see eh.
You are absolutely right about the old days. But there was a sort of parallel with today in what people did with tellys back then. if I look back at my parents and people of their generation they never all had new cars every few years. It just wasn't normal back then. If you earned 30k pa then generally you had a car costing around a third of that. Not like now where folk will be earning 30k and running around in a car valued at 40k.
Going back a generation earlier it was all make do and mend. Cars were mostly heald together with rust, there were some right s
t boxes on the roads, if you could afford to run one. Where's the better place to be....I'd say now!
Is it sustainable......no!
But the manufacturers have normalised cheap luxury cars to people that wouldn't necessarily otherwise afford them, if the credit supply stops, what do they do next?
Buying trends will generally follow whatever is freely and easily available, which is why pcp and lease rule for now and OP can't sell his used cars. Think about how many small used car lots there used to be dotted around the towns 10-20yrs ago compared to now, how cheap you could pick up a car for.
Maybe we'll see a demand on used cars again if interest rates go up to 'normal' levels and the cheap credit dries up. However due to the normalisation of having a 40k Audi/BMW/merc on the drive and the reluctance to accept the reality of the situation I expect if that happens there will be a large proportion of people that can't see beyond what they have become accustomed, meaning more financial stretching and commitments.
We'll see eh.
They were very expensive to buy and unreliable. Lots of people rented for what looked like quite a high monthly amount. But when they went wrong they got a replacement and they got to choose new telly every couple of years.
Others bought new, hoped for the best and paid to get them fixed and hung on to them for years.
My parents were in the latter category. Overall I think they got to watch TV for less. But everyone got fleeced one way or another.
Today TVs are relatively cheap to buy. There is no market worth a darn in used ones. People just chuck them and get a new one.
I wonder if that is where we end up with cars.
I guess with the drive on EV's that could well be dictated by the battery life meaning the financial viability of a car.
If the manufacturer supports it for 7yrs then after that the car may be deemed almost worthless!?
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Yep totally understandable. I understand why people want a brand new car, I've been there and it is great. Having a car that you know has been looked after from day 1. It is fantastic. I struggled with paying for something that would never be mine, maybe I have an old-fashioned mindset when buying cars. Either way, I am chuffed as punch with my cars, the 2nd hand market is littered with fantastic cars because people want something brand new.
For me, I like having no finance and complete flexibility to change my cars. Talking of which, the E91 is being traded in for an E92 M3 Alpine Edition in a few weeks
It's an interesting contradiction, where you have cars being produced on grounds of emissions and improved efficiencies, but where seemingly the end users wishes (and obviously the manufacturers want) to upgrade sooner and sooner? It's the clash of economics/capitalism with the green/save the planet ethos which, whilst they aren't exactly mutually exclusive, they definitely don't make perfect bedfellows!
Is there a stat for the average age of cars on the road over the years, has this been increasing for sure year on year as the lease/pcp talk would seem to suggest?
Is there a stat for the average age of cars on the road over the years, has this been increasing for sure year on year as the lease/pcp talk would seem to suggest?
Scootersp said:
It's an interesting contradiction, where you have cars being produced on grounds of emissions and improved efficiencies, but where seemingly the end users wishes (and obviously the manufacturers want) to upgrade sooner and sooner? It's the clash of economics/capitalism with the green/save the planet ethos which, whilst they aren't exactly mutually exclusive, they definitely don't make perfect bedfellows!
Is there a stat for the average age of cars on the road over the years, has this been increasing for sure year on year as the lease/pcp talk would seem to suggest?
Human beings consume. Thats what we do. Its not a big surprise that we want to consume new cars at an ever greater rate.Is there a stat for the average age of cars on the road over the years, has this been increasing for sure year on year as the lease/pcp talk would seem to suggest?
I think a lot of things these days are disposable - to the extent that if you chose to replace it you can. Mobile phones are a prime example.
I think the Snowflake Generation are used to getting what they want when they want it and therefore they'll happily sign up for a new car over 3 years but demand to be able to change it after a year and then are shocked when there are consequences.
If you treat PCP deals as they were designed - a commitment over an agreed term, then not one just will you give about the fact you may for a big part of it owe more than its worth, yet some people seem to get really up in arms about it.
swisstoni said:
Today TVs are relatively cheap to buy. There is no market worth a darn in used ones. People just chuck them and get a new one.
I wonder if that is where we end up with cars.
I think the Finance world has a different plan for us as car buyers.... Heading towards subscription services (A few are starting to appear). Maybe it would be like Amazon providing a full TV service including the TV in your Prime subscription.I wonder if that is where we end up with cars.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Satire or not, the 330D LCI shares the same auto box as the 335d, which as we all know is a pretty torquey diesel (even in standard guise). Two of my friends both have E9* 335Ds, both mapped with 320hp and 700nm and have done over 150k each. I don't know much about cars, but I'd say the mechanics are pretty strong to handle that level of power.Thank you, I am very excited. I've always wanted an M3, it's my affordable dream car. Hopefully the box lasts until it is also chopped in
Going back to the OP's question I just had a quick look at the SMMT figures. 8.1 million used cars changed hands last year. This year has seen a small decrease on last years figures so it seems older cars are still being punted.
A possibility is small traders are being squeezed by the big boys gobbling up everything WBAC can throw at them whilst cars sold by individuals on Ebay and Gum tree private adds are undercutting them at the lower end of the market.
One worry was second hand sales dropped 5% last quarter. Possibly a belt tightening and brace brace brace for Brexit state of affairs.
A possibility is small traders are being squeezed by the big boys gobbling up everything WBAC can throw at them whilst cars sold by individuals on Ebay and Gum tree private adds are undercutting them at the lower end of the market.
One worry was second hand sales dropped 5% last quarter. Possibly a belt tightening and brace brace brace for Brexit state of affairs.
Edited by Tannedbaldhead on Monday 13th August 13:43
Sheepshanks said:
Earthdweller said:
Dog Star said:
I'm cool with leasing, PCP not so much and I'd never even consider a PCP without a guaranteed future value. My brother in law has just fallen foul of this when his car is worth 5k less than his balloon with a year still to go
I fail to see what he has fallen foul of .. other than being protected from £5k + of loss The final value of xx is guaranteed by the finance co .. so even if it’s worth £10k less than the end value in a year he hasn’t lost any more money ... the finance company carries the risk ?
He can just keep the car full term and walk away surely ?
Only if he wants to buy it at end of term must he make a decision to pay xx for something only worth yy
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