Used cars not selling?

[Chrishum]

[redacted]

[Chrishum]

[redacted]

[Sa Calobra]

Dog Star said:

9k used car worth 5k after 3 years and another 45K miles.

Chinny reckon? And what's it cost in tax, tyres, servicing and just general ballache in that lot? Lets be generous and call it 1000 a year. So that's a grand total of 2k "better off" for running round in an old car (and let's not forget the time off work for getting MOTs, servicing, tyres changed etc or just general time spent).

(I run a "regular" old car (a V70) which does about 6K a year and I can assure you it costs a lot more than 1k a year. It's a pain in the arse and I'm handy with the spanners too).

There's a lot of holier than thou types on here who like to sneer at PCP/leasers when I suspect half of them couldn't get the credit anyway. Personally for the amount of aggro involved for not a lot of difference in costs I think quite a lot of thm are mugs - however they can knock themselves out; there has to be a market for the old stuff.

Why do people buy old V70's? From what I understand they are a wallet drain.

My cars cost me £240 for an exhaust. A whole lot less than your V70.

No I wouldn't touch a lease car. If I had to I'd sell my own car. If the economy went bad for me. 1 year into a 3year lease though, boy you ain't getting out without a bit of pain..

[Alex_225]

treeroy said:

Plenty of people can afford £200-300 of income but don't have 10 grand + saved up let alone £20K or £30K for a new car.
Particularly if you get a new job that boosts your income, you dont have anything saved but can afford monthly payments.

This isn't a dig at anyone by any means but I think this is the point some people find baffling. I'm not saying everyone should be sitting there eating Pot Noodles and only having 5 channels on the TV because they should be putting all their money aside and I'm sure there are many people out there with PCP deals who can afford a few hundred quid without flinching. I don't think all people who have a car on this kind of finance will fall flat on their ar$es at some point either.

For me personally, it just doesn't sit too well. I appreciate not everyone has £10k to whack down on a car deposit but if £200-300 a month is the max amount someone can afford, then they can't afford to actually buy a £30k car. That person can afford to borrow one basically and that's where for me I don't like the idea.

I think where the image of PCP gets a bad wrap is from those people who end up in a sticky situation due to debt. I have known people, living at home with parents, go finance a £20k+ car and then by the end of the term realise they've got nothing, can't afford another deal and end up in a banger as they were stretching their finances in the first place. Have known others end up in tricky situations as they won't opt for second hand (for fear of costs/break down etc.) but what they can actually afford on finance isn't appealing so ended up in a car they hated.

By contrast I know people on what I would consider a substantial salary who have a car on PCP because it's cheap (to them) and convenient. £300 is literally disposable so to those people I absolutely get the convenience of it.

I think a lot of the comments that are so against PCP on here relate more to those people driving around in a £30k car, living at home with parents putting themselves into a bad situation financially compared to those who are well established and can afford the amount without flinching.

I think there's probably a few reasons why people take up PCP so no one can really comment negatively without knowing the individuals situation.

[treeroy]

Alex_225 said:

For me personally, it just doesn't sit too well. I appreciate not everyone has £10k to whack down on a car deposit but if £200-300 a month is the max amount someone can afford, then they can't afford to actually buy a £30k car. That person can afford to borrow one basically and that's where for me I don't like the idea.


I think there's probably a few reasons why people take up PCP so no one can really comment negatively without knowing the individuals situation.

The RRP of £30k is really a meaningless number if the cars being sold as a lease/finance and then changing hands after 3 years.
But yes, you can't "afford" a £30k car in that you couldn't buy it outright. In the same way that people who have a mortgage well they can't actually afford £400,000 so they should get rid of their house because they are stretching their finances, right?

and i agree with your last sentence

[mat205125]

Alex_225 said:

treeroy said:

Plenty of people can afford £200-300 of income but don't have 10 grand + saved up let alone £20K or £30K for a new car.
Particularly if you get a new job that boosts your income, you dont have anything saved but can afford monthly payments.

This isn't a dig at anyone by any means but I think this is the point some people find baffling. I'm not saying everyone should be sitting there eating Pot Noodles and only having 5 channels on the TV because they should be putting all their money aside and I'm sure there are many people out there with PCP deals who can afford a few hundred quid without flinching. I don't think all people who have a car on this kind of finance will fall flat on their ar$es at some point either.

For me personally, it just doesn't sit too well. I appreciate not everyone has £10k to whack down on a car deposit but if £200-300 a month is the max amount someone can afford, then they can't afford to actually buy a £30k car. That person can afford to borrow one basically and that's where for me I don't like the idea.

I think where the image of PCP gets a bad wrap is from those people who end up in a sticky situation due to debt. I have known people, living at home with parents, go finance a £20k+ car and then by the end of the term realise they've got nothing, can't afford another deal and end up in a banger as they were stretching their finances in the first place. Have known others end up in tricky situations as they won't opt for second hand (for fear of costs/break down etc.) but what they can actually afford on finance isn't appealing so ended up in a car they hated.

By contrast I know people on what I would consider a substantial salary who have a car on PCP because it's cheap (to them) and convenient. £300 is literally disposable so to those people I absolutely get the convenience of it.

I think a lot of the comments that are so against PCP on here relate more to those people driving around in a £30k car, living at home with parents putting themselves into a bad situation financially compared to those who are well established and can afford the amount without flinching.

I think there's probably a few reasons why people take up PCP so no one can really comment negatively without knowing the individuals situation.

Good rounded summary ....... you'll get into trouble for that kind of sound logic around here!

I've never ever had a car on finance, and have always bought outright or more typically with a personal bank loan. I'm questioning that logic in this day and age, and very tempted for a PCP or lease.

I've had cars dish out a few heavy bills in my time, which I've needed to support and repair myself, and also fund of course. Similarly, I've had a £10000 loan for the last 4 hears paying off the balance of the car I bought for £17000 used. Car's now probably a £7000 car, so in essence I haven't lost out, however my monthly total outgoings could have had something newer or new on finance or lease for the same on not-much-more cash.

I'm leaning towards the dark side, however promise to still go to the pub, and not sit at home by a candle eating Skips and neglecting all maintenance etc.

[jfire]

There's a degree of uncertainty over emissions standards. As mentioned lots of leases, but interest rates may shift people back to used car cash purchases. Also the nice weather, get some convertibles.

[treeroy]

Sa Calobra said:

Why do people buy old V70's? From what I understand they are a wallet drain.

My cars cost me £240 for an exhaust. A whole lot less than your V70.

No I wouldn't touch a lease car. If I had to I'd sell my own car. If the economy went bad for me. 1 year into a 3year lease though, boy you ain't getting out without a bit of pain..

But I have no problem paying it. I don't need to get out of the lease. I'm in a public sector (local govt) job that is very secure and in an area of the country that has no unemployment. If the economy goes down the toilet, the council still extracts the council tax out of the public and moves it into my wallet!
If I lost my job for some reason I would get another job.

mat205125 said:

Good rounded summary ....... you'll get into trouble for that kind of sound logic around here!

I've never ever had a car on finance, and have always bought outright or more typically with a personal bank loan. I'm questioning that logic in this day and age, and very tempted for a PCP or lease.

I've had cars dish out a few heavy bills in my time, which I've needed to support and repair myself, and also fund of course. Similarly, I've had a £10000 loan for the last 4 hears paying off the balance of the car I bought for £17000 used. Car's now probably a £7000 car, so in essence I haven't lost out, however my monthly total outgoings could have had something newer or new on finance or lease for the same on not-much-more cash.

I'm leaning towards the dark side, however promise to still go to the pub, and not sit at home by a candle eating Skips and neglecting all maintenance etc.

yes that was my attitude. My previous car that kept throwing up repair bills and bits falling off it, and the amount of fuel it drank, I could get a new car thats just as fun to drive. I was faced with a massive bill in order to pass MOT and I was tempted to go through with it, but in the end decided to spend the money on a new car

[Earthdweller]

mat205125 said:

!

I've never ever had a car on finance, and have always bought outright or more typically with a personal bank loan. I'm questioning that logic in this day and age, and very tempted for a PCP or lease.

A bank loan IS Finance though

Who the provider is and the terms of the loan are your choice .. pcp isn’t necessarily bad

I’ve got a car on pcp .. low rate finance .. large discount and manufacturer support .. was cheaper than a personal loan on that occasion .. the previous car was on hp as it was a used car and a straight loan was cheaper than a pcp .. with the current one being new the figures worked the opposite way for me

I’m I’m the process of paying off the pcp now though and taking a loan to pay off the balance as my circumstances have changed and I’ve decided to keep the car longer

But I don’t think a pcp is the devils work you just need to know what you are doing

[Alex_225]

treeroy said:

The RRP of £30k is really a meaningless number if the cars being sold as a lease/finance and then changing hands after 3 years.
But yes, you can't "afford" a £30k car in that you couldn't buy it outright. In the same way that people who have a mortgage well they can't actually afford £400,000 so they should get rid of their house because they are stretching their finances, right?

and i agree with your last sentence

To be fair I think a lot of the RRPs on cars are a number people don't even think about. They're even advertised at X amount per month I suppose because the reality is that the full price would surprise or put people off.

In the literal sense it is similar to a mortgage although the theory behind that is you own the house at the end of the term, it's just a 30 year term rather than 30 months. I suppose comparing it to a mortgage would be more along the lines of buying a £600k property and paying interest only on the mortgage or buying a £300k property and paying it off. Of course the time/cost scale is very different so not an entirely fair comparison.

I own my cars now but at one point I had borrowed to buy them but paid them off monthly instead. If I was in a position whereby I could blow £500 on a really nice car on PCP, something I really wanted but still own my current motors I'd be more at ease for my own circumstances.

[Sa Calobra]

treeroy said:

yes that was my attitude. My previous car that kept throwing up repair bills and bits falling off it, and the amount of fuel it drank, I could get a new car thats just as fun to drive. I was faced with a massive bill in order to pass MOT and I was tempted to go through with it, but in the end decided to spend the money on a new car

Public sector is in no way immune. Job cuts and outsourcing all happened to my council and Northants is a prime example of issues.

If businesses go bust, rates income goes down because of businesses closing ergo council cash flow drops. Which equals cuts. Ontop of that with council competence at managing finances and you'll soon be looking at big job cuts.

[treeroy]

Alex_225 said:

To be fair I think a lot of the RRPs on cars are a number people don't even think about. They're even advertised at X amount per month I suppose because the reality is that the full price would surprise or put people off.

In the literal sense it is similar to a mortgage although the theory behind that is you own the house at the end of the term, it's just a 30 year term rather than 30 months. I suppose comparing it to a mortgage would be more along the lines of buying a £600k property and paying interest only on the mortgage or buying a £300k property and paying it off. Of course the time/cost scale is very different so not an entirely fair comparison.

I own my cars now but at one point I had borrowed to buy them but paid them off monthly instead. If I was in a position whereby I could blow £500 on a really nice car on PCP, something I really wanted but still own my current motors I'd be more at ease for my own circumstances.

Yeah, you watch TV and it's £249 per month not £25,000 since I think 80 (?) % of new cars are on finance.

Even if you buy it in cash it's all relative, I mean unless you intend on never selling the car and owning it until you are dead, then the actual cost of the car is not the buying price, it's the depreciation.

yeah it's not a great comparison to mortgages (and I'll freely admit I know nothing about mortgages) I just mean it's the same principle of buying something expensive, on finance.

Sa Calobra said:

Public sector is in no way immune. Job cuts and outsourcing all happened to my council and Northants is a prime example of issues.

If businesses go bust, rates income goes down because of businesses closing ergo council cash flow drops. Which equals cuts. Ontop of that with council competence at managing finances and you'll soon be looking at big job cuts.

Yeah I know, was being slightly facetious. Although we are one of few councils that despite extreme funding cuts we continue to expand. In an area of high economic growth and large population increases that are set to continue.

[CSLM3CSL]

Deep Thought said:

A slow down in consumer spending can cause a recession. A slow down in consumer spending doesnt mean theres a recession coming.

I think consumer confidence is very low - BREXIT is looming (and thats a fiasco) and in the car trade, uncertainty over diesel taxation has rogered the new car market.

Consumer confidence may have dropped but it still way too high. Consumers are far too confident because many are running up substantial credit card debts and In many cases remortgaging their houses to pay them off and then run up the credit card debts again. As people are spending an increased amount servicing their debts on their PCP and leased vehicles and their mortgages will increase as rates rise this will leave them with much less money to spend on the high street.

[Sa Calobra]

treeroy said:

Yeah I know, was being slightly facetious. Although we are one of few councils that despite extreme funding cuts we continue to expand. In an area of high economic growth and large population increases that are set to continue.

In the middle of Brexit the only people immune will be the emergency services. 'High grow areas' will quickly become recession deep.

[MC Bodge]

I'm always surprised by the number of people (with reasonable jobs) who refer to "pay day" and being thankful for it arriving. I'm not wealthy, but I can't say that I've ever been aware of it.

Sa Calobra said:

In the middle of Brexit the only people immune will be the emergency services. 'High grow areas' will quickly become recession deep.

Even if it is not quite as bad as that, we could really do without it.

[hooblah]

If you're struggling then quite frankly you're living beyond your means. Some people's circumstances are unfortunate, but if you're on £30k+ you shouldn't be 'looking forward to payday'.

[slipstream 1985]

Biggest problem i'm having is that people don't buy privately cars more than 2k. I havn't had a single call for my M3 despite it being low miles and a future classic on here. I'm now talking to dealers about them buying it off me for a ludacris price.

[OddCat]

slipstream 1985 said:

Biggest problem i'm having is that people don't buy privately cars more than 2k. I havn't had a single call for my M3 despite it being low miles and a future classic on here. I'm now talking to dealers about them buying it off me for a ludacris price.

What about getting a local sports car specialist to sell it for you as a commission sale ?

They can arrange finance for the buyer. They usually want 10% or £2,000 whichever is the greater (or something like that) ?

[northwest monkey]

hooblah said:

If you're struggling then quite frankly you're living beyond your means. Some people's circumstances are unfortunate, but if you're on £30k+ you shouldn't be 'looking forward to payday'.

Rubbish.

I know people who hardly live like kings that have a household income of £30k and I'd say they definitely look forward to payday. Maybe come down from your ivory tower sometimes and see how it is in the real world.

£30k is 2 adults on minimum wage.

[roadsmash]

northwest monkey said:

hooblah said:

If you're struggling then quite frankly you're living beyond your means. Some people's circumstances are unfortunate, but if you're on £30k+ you shouldn't be 'looking forward to payday'.

Rubbish.

I know people who hardly live like kings that have a household income of £30k and I'd say they definitely look forward to payday. Maybe come down from your ivory tower sometimes and see how it is in the real world.

£30k is 2 adults on minimum wage.

By “looking forward to payday” I think he means “need payday.” I think most people look forward to payday regardless of how well they’re doing.

I also think hooblah meant 1 person on £30k. Not 2 people on £15k each. I think if you’re single and on £15k anywhere in the U.K. at the moment, then it’s fair to say that the cost of general living might leave you close to 0 at the end of every month, providing you live on your own, not at parent’s etc. So you’re right. But that’s not what hooblah said.

Meaning that if a couple living together are on £60k (your example if you take what hooblah said), then they shouldn’t be requiring payday to come in order to eat. Which makes sense.

So I think his comment is a fair one and accurate. If you’re single and earning £30k a year (in the south, for clarity) and need payday urgently, then you’re living above your means.

hooblah said nothing more nothing less.