Anti-vax conspiraloons actually killing people.

Anti-vax conspiraloons actually killing people.

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Discussion

hidetheelephants

Original Poster:

23,772 posts

192 months

Monday 20th August 2018
quotequote all
It's not at all surprising that a record number of people in europe have caught measles this year, consequently a portion will suffer life-changing complications and 37 people are dead so far.

BBC said:
Italy's upper house of parliament recently voted through legislation to abolish the law that makes vaccination mandatory for children before they start school. The amendment will mean parents of unvaccinated children will no longer face fines.

Dr Mary Ramsay, head of immunisation at PHE - "The majority of cases we are seeing are in teenagers and young adults who missed out on their MMR vaccine when they were children."
FFS.


poo at Paul's

14,116 posts

174 months

Monday 20th August 2018
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Safer than driving over their bridges?

James_B

12,642 posts

256 months

Monday 20th August 2018
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It’s awful. This sort of anti-science kills and maims people, mainly children, and for no possible advantage.

Given how vaccines work, and how not everyone is able to be vaccinated, it also means that those who have done everything right will be affected too.

We’ve some strange views on vaccines in the U.K. on occasion too, such as nurseries not being allowed to insist on the children having their vaccinations.

durbster

10,223 posts

221 months

Tuesday 21st August 2018
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The Wakefield farce was a real eye-opener to how malleable we are as a species. It's been as comprehensively debunked as a piece of work can be, and yet it persists. And rather than disappearing in disgrace, Wakefield is still making money off it and was even at Trump's inauguration.

The people who spread this stuff use the real disasters of the pharmaceutical industry to sow the seeds of doubt, then can basically say whatever they want and some people will go for it.

I think in the age of information, critical thinking needs to be taught as its own subject in school. The older generations are too far gone.

Moonhawk

10,730 posts

218 months

Tuesday 21st August 2018
quotequote all
James_B said:
Given how vaccines work, and how not everyone is able to be vaccinated, it also means that those who have done everything right will be affected too.
Yep - anti vaccine nuts are not only putting their own kids at risk - they are also sticking two fingers up at everyone else too.

Pricks.

No drug is 100% safe......but the point is, they are a a hell of a lot safer than the disease they are meant to treat/prevent.

s2art

18,937 posts

252 months

Tuesday 21st August 2018
quotequote all
durbster said:
I think in the age of information, critical thinking needs to be taught as its own subject in school. The older generations are too far gone.
?? The older generations (at least the ones who had good educations) were taught critical thinking.

g3org3y

20,606 posts

190 months

Tuesday 21st August 2018
quotequote all
durbster said:
The Wakefield farce was a real eye-opener to how malleable we are as a species. It's been as comprehensively debunked as a piece of work can be, and yet it persists. And rather than disappearing in disgrace, Wakefield is still making money off it and was even at Trump's inauguration.
Indeed. Absolute thunder.

durbster

10,223 posts

221 months

Tuesday 21st August 2018
quotequote all
s2art said:
?? The older generations (at least the ones who had good educations) were taught critical thinking.
Were they? Prior to the internet age, people got their information from trusted sources such as newspapers or TV. There wasn't much opportunity to investigate anything yourself so you didn't really have much choice.

There was no need to learn how to parse vast amounts of information yourself, so why would they have learnt how?

Shakermaker

11,317 posts

99 months

Tuesday 21st August 2018
quotequote all
durbster said:
The Wakefield farce was a real eye-opener to how malleable we are as a species. It's been as comprehensively debunked as a piece of work can be, and yet it persists. And rather than disappearing in disgrace, Wakefield is still making money off it and was even at Trump's inauguration.

The people who spread this stuff use the real disasters of the pharmaceutical industry to sow the seeds of doubt, then can basically say whatever they want and some people will go for it.

I think in the age of information, critical thinking needs to be taught as its own subject in school. The older generations are too far gone.
And he is now dating Elle MacPherson!!!!

Jinx

11,345 posts

259 months

Tuesday 21st August 2018
quotequote all
durbster said:
Were they? Prior to the internet age, people got their information from trusted sources such as newspapers or TV. There wasn't much opportunity to investigate anything yourself so you didn't really have much choice.

There was no need to learn how to parse vast amounts of information yourself, so why would they have learnt how?
So they had no idea they were being lied to wink


rodericb

6,660 posts

125 months

Tuesday 21st August 2018
quotequote all
The article says that most cases are in teenagers and young adults who missed out on vaccination. There's one shot at one year old and the second (booster) shot at 4 (?) to catch those who didn't get immunity after the first shot. So the timing doesn't quite line up with the majority of the anti-vaxxer movement. There's also no details on where these cases came from - are they people from countries which didn't have much in the way of an MMR program? Or are they children of the very first anti-vaxxers who were safe in an immune herd but started running with a not-so-disease free herd? The numbers seem high for UK, based on the timing and the cases and that you've had MMR vaccination since day dot.

There's also the possibility that two doses isn't enough for some people. They lose immunity, come into contact with a carrier and bang they've got it. I'm in Australia and did a quick google to find out more:

https://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/country...

https://www.smh.com.au/healthcare/why-australia-st...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-23/anti-vaccina...

Jasandjules

69,825 posts

228 months

Tuesday 21st August 2018
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What always amuses me when I read threads like this is my old plumber saying doctors are liars and they didn't save millions of lives, plumbers did. That it was clean water and good hygiene and sewer plumbing etc stopped diseases rapidly and long before vaccines - he had a massive rant whilst fixing our taps !!

mcdjl

5,438 posts

194 months

Tuesday 21st August 2018
quotequote all
Jinx said:
durbster said:
Were they? Prior to the internet age, people got their information from trusted sources such as newspapers or TV. There wasn't much opportunity to investigate anything yourself so you didn't really have much choice.

There was no need to learn how to parse vast amounts of information yourself, so why would they have learnt how?
So they had no idea they were being lied to wink
I'm sure i remember being taught in history and english how to read different sources and look at the different view points to understand bias. Mind you that was 20 years ago....so am i the lost generation or the old ones?

Ian Geary

4,462 posts

191 months

Tuesday 21st August 2018
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I guess he's right in a roundabout sort of way. But cleaners working in food factories could say the same sort of thing.

Doctors, or scientists at least, have worked out the causes of infection, and extrapolated those into solutions for other illnesses.

I doubt the guild of honourable plumbers (or whatever they call themselves) were calling for mass reform of drinking water regulations before doctors made the link to water borne diseases.

Hoofy

76,253 posts

281 months

Tuesday 21st August 2018
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfdZTZQvuCo

Swear words. Look, just don't watch YT at work. Skiver. wink

Vizsla

922 posts

123 months

Tuesday 21st August 2018
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Ian Geary said:
I doubt the guild of honourable plumbers (or whatever they call themselves) were calling for mass reform of drinking water regulations before doctors made the link to water borne diseases.
………. whilst kitting out water supply systems using neurotoxic lead pipes, what could possibly go wrong? yikes

AppleJuice

2,154 posts

84 months

Tuesday 21st August 2018
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Shakermaker said:
And he is now dating Elle MacPherson!!!!
Hope she struts off and leaves him.

AW111

9,455 posts

132 months

Tuesday 21st August 2018
quotequote all
durbster said:
s2art said:
?? The older generations (at least the ones who had good educations) were taught critical thinking.
Were they? Prior to the internet age, people got their information from trusted sources such as newspapers or TV. There wasn't much opportunity to investigate anything yourself so you didn't really have much choice.

There was no need to learn how to parse vast amounts of information yourself, so why would they have learnt how?
I studied critical thinking at high school over thirty years ago.
Do you really think we blindly believed the media of the day?

bloomen

6,854 posts

158 months

Tuesday 21st August 2018
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Jasandjules said:
What always amuses me when I read threads like this is my old plumber saying doctors are liars and they didn't save millions of lives, plumbers did. That it was clean water and good hygiene and sewer plumbing etc stopped diseases rapidly and long before vaccines - he had a massive rant whilst fixing our taps !!
Um, he's right?

Clean water and proper sewage for all would probably prevent more disease than any other one single measure worldwide.

motco

15,919 posts

245 months

Tuesday 21st August 2018
quotequote all
bloomen said:
Jasandjules said:
What always amuses me when I read threads like this is my old plumber saying doctors are liars and they didn't save millions of lives, plumbers did. That it was clean water and good hygiene and sewer plumbing etc stopped diseases rapidly and long before vaccines - he had a massive rant whilst fixing our taps !!
Um, he's right?

Clean water and proper sewage for all would probably prevent more disease than any other one single measure worldwide.
It is naively simplistic to try to assign any one single cause for improved longevity. Of course plumbers and sanitary engineers made a difference, but only because immunologists and microbiologists told them what to do. Likewise, those doctors could not have themselves dug sewers and run pipework. It is progress of a civilisation that is responsible. Idiots like the antivaxers and chemtrail believers think it is we who are deluded!