RE: Porsche 911 (997) Carrera S: Spotted
Discussion
The Selfish Gene said:
I don't think 10k for an engine rebuild is particularly expensive, when you consider how good the engine is. As long as once it's done, it's done.
You are correct, factoring labour charges of £60-£100 / hour, parts cost, specialist equipment, I think £10k is reasonable for a full engine rebuild, (this engine only looks to have had 3 of the cylinder lining replaced).Biggest cost is when you factor in man maths of modifying engine at same time as rebuild!!!! Then it gets really expensive.
The Selfish Gene said:
Mr_Sukebe said:
I really struggle with the logic on 911s and Boxsters.
I see so many comments and warnings about potentially massive bills, yet people still buy them like hotcakes.
I understand that they're good to drive, but why do they get so much positive praise when their engines seem to have more problems than Rover K series engines, but with massively higher repair costs.
Meh - if you buy any decent quality car and it needs a repair it will be expensive.I see so many comments and warnings about potentially massive bills, yet people still buy them like hotcakes.
I understand that they're good to drive, but why do they get so much positive praise when their engines seem to have more problems than Rover K series engines, but with massively higher repair costs.
You think Ferrari, Lambo, Aston are any different when out of warranty? High end cars are expensive.
I don't think 10k for an engine rebuild is particularly expensive, when you consider how good the engine is. As long as once it's done, it's done.
British Beef said:
The Selfish Gene said:
I don't think 10k for an engine rebuild is particularly expensive, when you consider how good the engine is. As long as once it's done, it's done.
You are correct, factoring labour charges of £60-£100 / hour, parts cost, specialist equipment, I think £10k is reasonable for a full engine rebuild, (this engine only looks to have had 3 of the cylinder lining replaced).Biggest cost is when you factor in man maths of modifying engine at same time as rebuild!!!! Then it gets really expensive.
I've done 6000 flat out miles in mine - and it's still perfect. It's not on 66k miles.
No problems at all.
Where the LS is a great engine, the original engine is a huge part of what makes the 997 very special to drive.
Changing the DNA of a 911 like that just doesn't work.
A quality rebuild if required is the answer.
I never know why there is so much drama about it.
Just budget it in to the buying of the car, or buy a different car.
The race cars get rebuilt yearly. You 'may' need one rebuild in the life of a fabulous car for not that much money relatively.
Storm in a tea cup.
Granted if you buy one private for strong money and then need 10/15k spent on it, that's unlucky. Otherwise just crack on and enjoy the car and budget appropriately.
No problems at all.
Where the LS is a great engine, the original engine is a huge part of what makes the 997 very special to drive.
Changing the DNA of a 911 like that just doesn't work.
A quality rebuild if required is the answer.
I never know why there is so much drama about it.
Just budget it in to the buying of the car, or buy a different car.
The race cars get rebuilt yearly. You 'may' need one rebuild in the life of a fabulous car for not that much money relatively.
Storm in a tea cup.
Granted if you buy one private for strong money and then need 10/15k spent on it, that's unlucky. Otherwise just crack on and enjoy the car and budget appropriately.
The Selfish Gene said:
Meh - if you buy any decent quality car and it needs a repair it will be expensive.
You think Ferrari, Lambo, Aston are any different when out of warranty? High end cars are expensive.
I don't think 10k for an engine rebuild is particularly expensive, when you consider how good the engine is. As long as once it's done, it's done.
Personally I wouldn't put Porsche in the same bracket, as the others you mentioned being somewhat mass produced by comparison. These are pretty major issues from a company which prides itself on engineering integrity. I seem to remember the Nikasil issue on Jag V8s being entirely covered by the factory whereas Porsche customers have to suck it up themselves. You think Ferrari, Lambo, Aston are any different when out of warranty? High end cars are expensive.
I don't think 10k for an engine rebuild is particularly expensive, when you consider how good the engine is. As long as once it's done, it's done.
yeah that's fair - Porsche isn't a Ferrari or a Lambo.........
but, my point is the same. Ever tried owning a Lambo and seen the bills?
Expensive cars are expensive, and a 10/15k engine rebuild on a car that was originally best part of 100k once in it's life, I don't think is terrible.
I've spent more than that in three weekends on a basic race car that ran for 3 hours.
Edited to add - that's only needed IF it has the problem. Many don't.
but, my point is the same. Ever tried owning a Lambo and seen the bills?
Expensive cars are expensive, and a 10/15k engine rebuild on a car that was originally best part of 100k once in it's life, I don't think is terrible.
I've spent more than that in three weekends on a basic race car that ran for 3 hours.
Edited to add - that's only needed IF it has the problem. Many don't.
This looks like a great buy..... However.... if you actually check the 'full' service history it's not complete.
It went 23k miles and 4 years without a service between 2008 and 2012. These cars are 20k miles or 2 years, whichever comes first. Perhaps there's a stamp missing somewhere that can be found in the receipts - but as things stand thats a long long time without a service...... no wonder the engine went!
It went 23k miles and 4 years without a service between 2008 and 2012. These cars are 20k miles or 2 years, whichever comes first. Perhaps there's a stamp missing somewhere that can be found in the receipts - but as things stand thats a long long time without a service...... no wonder the engine went!
Out of interest, does anyone know what an engine rebuild costs on other cars of comparable performance ?
Ten grand seems like a lot of money but is that because its a Porsche, or thats just what a full engine rebuild costs ?
It costs 100 grand when it was new will have some bearing (the only bearing still left...) but its only a six cylinder engine, a 370Z has a six cylinder engine with a near enough comparable power output, if you break one of those is that ten grand to rebuild ? or is that a case of they dont really break so it isnt an issue and if you do its £1500 for one from a breaker and about £800 to get it fitted.
I suppose with 911s having these issues, S/H engines are rare and an unknown quantity anyway.
Is it because they are not as straightforward to rebuild as other engines or parts are more expensive ?
Just seems a hell of a lot of money.
Ten grand seems like a lot of money but is that because its a Porsche, or thats just what a full engine rebuild costs ?
It costs 100 grand when it was new will have some bearing (the only bearing still left...) but its only a six cylinder engine, a 370Z has a six cylinder engine with a near enough comparable power output, if you break one of those is that ten grand to rebuild ? or is that a case of they dont really break so it isnt an issue and if you do its £1500 for one from a breaker and about £800 to get it fitted.
I suppose with 911s having these issues, S/H engines are rare and an unknown quantity anyway.
Is it because they are not as straightforward to rebuild as other engines or parts are more expensive ?
Just seems a hell of a lot of money.
J4CKO said:
I suppose with 911s having these issues, S/H engines are rare and an unknown quantity anyway.
Is it because they are not as straightforward to rebuild as other engines or parts are more expensive ?
The 911 Turbo and GT3 engines from this period don't have anything like same problems. Porsche cut costs and corners on everything else, and made a lot of money. ... Is it because they are not as straightforward to rebuild as other engines or parts are more expensive ?
ogrodz said:
However, it does indeed have niggles. The push button auto gear shift on the steering wheel is awful. For me a manual option was worse because you need a very strong left foot to depress the clutch pedal - and in UK traffic this very quickly becomes tedious. Surprisingly what taxed me most was the struggle to retrofit a decent stereo/nav unit in place of the awful standard piece of kit (which in Porsche's wisdom is an optical fibre system that is very difficult to deal with - mine also had Bose which added further complexity).
The tiptronic is truly terrible! I have to disagree with the clutch in the manual, I don't find it any harder than most performance manuals.Regarding the stereo, its a bit of a misconception that you have to go to great lengths to upgrade it. I have a kenwood double din fitted, with a off the shelf fascia panel, a wiring adaptor to the standard Porsche wiring, and a connects2 steering wheel control adaptor that also serves as a bridge to the Bose amp / fibre optics. It seems a common misconception that the fibre optics are a huge issue, I have seen cars fitted with new amps, speakers and wiring to bypass it, but all that's needed is a simple wiring harness for about £150 iirc. All plug and play.
Regarding engine issues, of the dozen or so owners of 996 and 997s I know, none have had an issue. Couple have uprated the bearing to be safe, as its a cheap enough job. The internet shouts very loud about these things, remember how many of these cars were made, the failure rate isn't as high as people think.
What an over rated car! I had an 06 C2S and while it was a powerful an intoxicating drive on a straight road, it couldn't handle sharp turns at any speed over 30mph without the safety system kicking in and killing the engine. The S3 I had at that time did not suffer this problem.
I traded in the 911S for an 09 Cayman S with a limited diff and that car was so much better.
I traded in the 911S for an 09 Cayman S with a limited diff and that car was so much better.
Brian Fallon said:
What an over rated car! I had an 06 C2S and while it was a powerful an intoxicating drive on a straight road, it couldn't handle sharp turns at any speed over 30mph without the safety system kicking in and killing the engine. The S3 I had at that time did not suffer this problem.
I traded in the 911S for an 09 Cayman S with a limited diff and that car was so much better.
and I'm out..........I traded in the 911S for an 09 Cayman S with a limited diff and that car was so much better.
J4CKO said:
Out of interest, does anyone know what an engine rebuild costs on other cars of comparable performance ?
Ten grand seems like a lot of money but is that because its a Porsche, or thats just what a full engine rebuild costs ?
It costs 100 grand when it was new will have some bearing (the only bearing still left...) but its only a six cylinder engine, a 370Z has a six cylinder engine with a near enough comparable power output, if you break one of those is that ten grand to rebuild ? or is that a case of they dont really break so it isnt an issue and if you do its £1500 for one from a breaker and about £800 to get it fitted.
I suppose with 911s having these issues, S/H engines are rare and an unknown quantity anyway.
Is it because they are not as straightforward to rebuild as other engines or parts are more expensive ?
Just seems a hell of a lot of money.
Id agree but who am i to speak, as i own, amongst others, a low-miles P38 Range Rover, surely one of the UK's greatest money-pit designs...Ten grand seems like a lot of money but is that because its a Porsche, or thats just what a full engine rebuild costs ?
It costs 100 grand when it was new will have some bearing (the only bearing still left...) but its only a six cylinder engine, a 370Z has a six cylinder engine with a near enough comparable power output, if you break one of those is that ten grand to rebuild ? or is that a case of they dont really break so it isnt an issue and if you do its £1500 for one from a breaker and about £800 to get it fitted.
I suppose with 911s having these issues, S/H engines are rare and an unknown quantity anyway.
Is it because they are not as straightforward to rebuild as other engines or parts are more expensive ?
Just seems a hell of a lot of money.
Just as a thought, and perhaps to put the cost of an engine, or half an engine rebuild into context, i'm sure i recently read that an engine rebuild for a Jaguar XJ 5.3-C was somewhere around, or north of, £15k at a marque-specialist. As they are currently running around £25-30k for a very nice example, that's a bit of a kick in the goolies.
My great mate SteveT63 has just bought a C2S, Speed Yellow with low miles, for (price redacted!), and insisted on the vehicle being checked over at Porsche/known specialist (i forget which as I'm not talking to him now for buying my dream car; Steve, if you're reading this, you're a git! But i still love ya!)
This included an inspection for bore wear (if that's the correct lingo) and IMS. Im sure he will keep it for a fair while (though his previous history with cars usually relates well to the time-span inbetween changes of underwear......)
Of course, one could, as mentioned in an earlier post, buy a Turbo and hopefully avoid the issues above, but that's a whole new kettle of poisson..
As to why someone would sell a car after having the engine work done, they may have concluded that to sell it with the existing issues might not have made financial sense to them, whereas biting the bullet and getting (half?) the work done would allow it to be sold at around the market value. Lets face it, some people would never buy a car with mechanical issues, whereas the market is a lot bigger for a car in rude health.
Over in the Porsche area of PH there's a multi page poll about reliability and a similarly long thread about engine rebuilds. The poll isn't counting RMS failures as apparently it's not deemed a serious enough fault to justify moaning about or recording.
Poll stats to date are No faults: 418, Rebuild due to major engine faults: 165
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/forum.asp?h=0&...
Further down in the Aston forum, there's no requirement for such a thread or poll.
Poll stats to date are No faults: 418, Rebuild due to major engine faults: 165
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/forum.asp?h=0&...
Further down in the Aston forum, there's no requirement for such a thread or poll.
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