Haymarket agrees sale of PistonHeads to CarGurus

Haymarket agrees sale of PistonHeads to CarGurus

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Discussion

thegreenhell

4,870 posts

155 months

Thursday 6th December
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Equus said:
It's dead in the water.
Certainly not many signs of life..



Talksteer

3,226 posts

169 months

Thursday 6th December
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Tj13e11 said:
funkyrobot said:
AC123 said:
How much £ did they pay?
A quid is the going rate for these sort of things, isn't it?
Aye, and the GBP isn't doing too well cause brexit so it was prime time for them to get here
Well a cursory search would indicate that Autotrader got 12 million unique views per month and Pistonheads gets around 5 million.

When Petrol Ted sold the site it had 900,000 and he allegedly sold for 7 figures.

Interestingly enough around 45% of people find Pistonheads from a search engine which probably means that around half the views are related to the used car sales.

For reference Autotrader Group has a market cap of £3.9 billion!

So let's say for instance Pistonheads has 1/5th the amount of classifieds traffic and is only 1/10th as successful at rinsing buyers as Autotrader, that would equate to a £78 million value.

If Pistonheads classifieds had the same P/E ratio that would mean that they were turning over around £8 million per year.

I suspect that Pistonheads is less successful at getting money out of sellers because Haymarkets total turnover was only £136 million.

In short Pistonheads probably has the potential to be worth hundreds of millions and possibly billions as a genuine rival to Autotrader, I suspect that Carguru did not pay anywhere near that much but I suspect that they will have paid in the tens of millions.


phoenixz

395 posts

102 months

Friday 7th December
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AndrewGP said:
Whilst I'm open to the majority of the stuff you've said, my impression is that most (but not all, I admit) 'younger audience' and '20-30 somethings' in this country neither have any interest in cars (bar whether they can connect their phone to it) or the disposable cash to spunk on one even if they did? Am I wrong? It's a genuine question by the way, not a criticism smile
These things come in peaks and troughs, but there is definitely still a younger audience interest in cars. The type of interest may have shifted and people like Schmee (~shudder~) may have claimed a large swath of the audience, but you only need to do a quick search of instagram to see that there is still a vast younger following.

I can't think of any generation where the young had disposable cash of any kind let alone to afford a car. The main reason you cater to that is to both stay relevant and future proof your brand.
By the time people reach their late 20s, early 30s, they are generally on their career path and starting to see some money come. Without going too far into minutiae of where they will spend that money, they tend to be your best market (that and the mid-life crisis age).

I will concede, however, that the interest in cars is not what it used to be. Peaks and troughs

bongtom

473 posts

19 months

Friday 7th December
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I met some bore at a car show once a few years back (which is why I joined this site) and he droned on about this site and how it used to be so good and everyone would meet up for drinks and meets etc but it was sold to someone (Haymarket i think) and then he did not like it, or more accurately the people in the office were beastly.

Anyway, can't remember his name but I think his username was carlick garick or carclick or something?

I have learnt stuff. Like mince pies do not contain meat and behemoth is actually crypto shill or/and a robot.


MikeGoodwin

1,315 posts

53 months

Friday 7th December
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phoenixz said:
Now that the "will the forum die" discussion has been cleared up, could i suggest a change in style similar to reddit for the forums.

I can hear the blood vessels of more senior members popping as i type this, but there is a reason that reddit is so highly regarded on the internet. I don't think it would take much for most members to transition. In fact, i imagine that most are already on it.

With people raging at their screens i might as well put out the rest of my suggestions (in for a penny...
- Your social media manager needs a lot of help and money (perhaps hiring someone that was born in the 21st century might help)
- Instagram is where the kids are at, but there is still a massive facebook user base to exploit
- Maybe a pistonheads app where people can post car meets in local areas
- More and more short videos until it hurts (Petrolicious is the Halo site for me on this)
- Bring back Dan Trent
- A section off the first page with small and fast articles may prove popular. People will look for the information that interests them and they prefer to look in one place. So doing something similar to Car Throttle won't hurt as long as you keep it separate from the main page with the more fleshed out content.
- To the best of my knowledge there has never been a Sunday Service in Scotland


i assume that the classifieds will be linked to CGs uk classifieds, but will there be a merger of styles?

I guess the challenge will be that you have years of technology catch up and investment required to get back to where you were and regain the lost readers. The best place to start with that will always be with the younger audience.
However the 20-30 somethings (most of whom are on facebook) are most likely to have the disposable cash and probably your target. (there is a reason why all the 90s films are getting remade or sequels)
They haven't even implemented phpbb let alone a reddit style forum. Pistonheads had no choice but to keep the older style forum in place so the luddites that frequent here can still use it.

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smartypants

37,174 posts

105 months

Friday 7th December
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The forum in it's current state, general functionality wise is absolutely fine. It makes for easy chronological contextual reading, which is very important for a forum that is a knowledgebase. It's why lots didn't get on with Blatters - that Twitter/FB style is only useful for shouty people who want to shout about things for five minutes and then forgotten about.

It's just they fked about with parts of the design that didn't need fking with (quotes for example), but essentially it shouldn't change. It's not about being a luddite, it's about having the right tool for the job.



dhutch

2,583 posts

133 months

Friday 7th December
quotequote all
Talksteer said:
Well a cursory search would indicate that Autotrader got 12 million unique views per month and Pistonheads gets around 5 million.

When Petrol Ted sold the site it had 900,000 and he allegedly sold for 7 figures.

Interestingly enough around 45% of people find Pistonheads from a search engine which probably means that around half the views are related to the used car sales.

For reference Autotrader Group has a market cap of £3.9 billion!

So let's say for instance Pistonheads has 1/5th the amount of classifieds traffic and is only 1/10th as successful at rinsing buyers as Autotrader, that would equate to a £78 million value.

If Pistonheads classifieds had the same P/E ratio that would mean that they were turning over around £8 million per year.

I suspect that Pistonheads is less successful at getting money out of sellers because Haymarkets total turnover was only £136 million.

In short Pistonheads probably has the potential to be worth hundreds of millions and possibly billions as a genuine rival to Autotrader, I suspect that Carguru did not pay anywhere near that much but I suspect that they will have paid in the tens of millions.
Its mad really. Obviously I get that the site and classifieds makes money and that the brand is well known and established, but it is also crazy really that is has that sort of a value. Fair play to 'Petrol Ted' for creating a hell of a site, and while Haymarket have under invested of late they have carried it as a reasonable site and forum for over a decade which is more than half its life.

I have a natural wariness of what happens with sites/communities following takeovers, as well as the enormous trend of US investment to fail to understand the UK market, and really hope that CarGurus manage to retain the site and forums feel and momentum while introducing sensible investment to the sites software. Only time will tell.

As a forum owner myself (sites second owner) I am very aware of sharing the web with other platforms, in fact we as a site and brand have a facebook group which augments the forum. Facebook is better for transient content and the group and forum membership overlaps significantly, however the forum is also an invaluable tool and community platform and continues to do well, including new members coming in via the fb presence.


danllama said:
The charm of this forum is due to exactly what it is. Change it and people will disappear in droves.
You have to be super careful not to upset what you have. However improvements to the software behind the forum would be welcomed by a significant number and if done well should not be an issue to anyone.

As said, we will all watch this space. Retaining and listening to the current/existing staff, and spending time understanding the forum and consulting users will pay dividends in maintaining that and bringing people in to the classified and news side of the site as well.

I often recommend people look on our (PH) classifieds alongside Autotrader, and would not if it where not for the forum.


Daniel

TheLuke

2,029 posts

77 months

Friday 7th December
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You oldies can't keep your MS dos forum forever, I like this forum layout as much as anyone, but I like the layout of Reddit more.

It can't stay like this forever, its just not how it works.







Bring on Pistonreddit. smile

Beefmeister

14,940 posts

166 months

Friday 7th December
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TheLuke said:
You oldies can't keep your MS dos forum forever, I like this forum layout as much as anyone, but I like the layout of Reddit more.

It can't stay like this forever, its just not how it works.

Bring on Pistonreddit. smile
I find it staggering that anyone likes the way Reddit is laid out. Just an absolute mess to me.

Probably looks good to ADHD riddled yoots though which seems like is all that matters.

smartypants

37,174 posts

105 months

Friday 7th December
quotequote all
Reddit is pretty horrible, and it's difficult to follow the flow of anything if you're not involved in from the start, and difficult to wade through the chaff of nonsense.

Again it's a who shouts loudest wins format. Which is no good for a knowledge-base forum. No problem in changing the style of the forum, even avatars are fine - but it should still remain a basic forum structure that is tried and tested for about 25+ years now, before all this fire and forget type of posting formats arrived.




Gameface

5,917 posts

13 months

Friday 7th December
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TheJimi said:
Monkeylegend said:
pingu393 said:
WTF is CTF? I've googled, but found nothing relevant.
Chew the fat.
CTF is awful, imo.

The moderation / rules are far more LAX and I got the impression that folk were rude & cheeky just because they could.

Haven't been on for years, but that's the impression I got.
Ive been on there. My screen name alluded to my car at the time. That was unacceptable apparently so they changed it to something offensive. I didn't go back.

Weird place with a snide undercurrent and unnecessary rudeness.

Lemming Train

813 posts

8 months

Friday 7th December
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The entire forum content side of the site would be dead within a month if they changed it to Reddit style. I think even if they move it to a traditional phpbb layout (that most of us oldies are familiar with) they're at high risk of losing a vast chunk of the community if they don't closely mimmick the look and colours. I witnessed a hugely popular hobby forum suddenly change from phpbb to vbulletin with a completely different template and colour pallete and the forums became a wasteland within a year.

If they change it to one of the other less familiar forum designs or even go as far as changing it to something like Blatters then they can kiss goodbye to 80% of the community.

jagnet

2,576 posts

138 months

Friday 7th December
quotequote all
TheLuke said:
Bring on Pistonreddit. smile
Change for change's sake. The PH community has grown over many years around this design; like real life the surroundings influence the community and the nature of the communication between members within. Reddit has its style, PH has its - you can't change one for the other without fundamentally changing the community. Just because Reddit is successful it certainly doesn't mean that PH would follow suit with a Reddit style makeover.


227bhp

7,794 posts

64 months

Friday 7th December
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As I sit here waiting 20 seconds for every page to load up i'm thinking anything's got to be better than this!

Lemming Train

813 posts

8 months

Friday 7th December
quotequote all
227bhp said:
As I sit here waiting 20 seconds for every page to load up i'm thinking anything's got to be better than this!
Buy a proper PC instead of using your toaster then hehe. I'm 'only' on an 8 Mbps connection here and the forum pages are loading in a split second so the problem is at your end.

thebraketester

6,594 posts

74 months

Friday 7th December
quotequote all
Lemming Train said:
227bhp said:
As I sit here waiting 20 seconds for every page to load up i'm thinking anything's got to be better than this!
so the problem is at your end.
No its not.... forum performance is shocking at the moment and lots are effected.

Lemming Train

813 posts

8 months

Friday 7th December
quotequote all
thebraketester said:
Lemming Train said:
227bhp said:
As I sit here waiting 20 seconds for every page to load up i'm thinking anything's got to be better than this!
so the problem is at your end.
No its not.... forum performance is shocking at the moment and lots are effected.
Forums are loading just fine in desktop Chrome with uBlock Origin and Adblock extensions on my W8.1 PC. If you're still using the internet in the year 2018 without ad blockers then you've only got yourself to blame! :shrug:

smartypants

37,174 posts

105 months

Friday 7th December
quotequote all
It's the forum if you're not running an Ad blocker

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...


PC: Lots of ad blocker options

iOS:

Run Safari and AdGuard

Android

Install Brave browser


Then the forum is usable.


dhutch

2,583 posts

133 months

Friday 7th December
quotequote all
I'm not a redit user, but there are modern high quality forum software options out there which look and work largely like the current layout, with useful extras like a user friendly image upload facility, reliable logical operation, and a mobile layout the works well on any size device.

Off the shelf options include vBulletin or Invision or obviously you could code your own with time and investment.


Daniel

sorrel

154 posts

74 months

Friday 7th December
quotequote all
No problems here, Chrome with AdBlocker on Win 8.1

Actually one of the quicker sites I use.. smile