RE: Alfa Romeo 156 GTA: PH Used Buying Guide
Discussion
cookie1600 said:
Yidwann said:
I never knew they did an estate version of this? I bet that is a rare thing now!
Featuring the same car in the pictures in the main article, 3 years ago here:
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/euro-cars/alfa-ro...
The Fiat/Alfa garage was just down the road from B&Q, you see, and well, it was just there on the forecourt.
Shame not to take it out for a test drive.
He was a keen drummer and the fact that it was an estate sealed the deal; what else would be better for transporting a drum kit between gigs?
The fact that he was single at the time, in well paid employment and about to hit 40 played no part in his decision
I always really liked the 156, I had a 2.0 TS and it was a really good car, one of the best daily drivers I've owned I would say. I also had a 159 subsequently which was a bit of a barge, the 156 was the much nicer drive.
I've never been into the GTA though, I've not driven one so maybe they are great to drive, but I always always thought they seemed over-priced for an old FWD V6 saloon despite the sporty badge. I'd prefer a 156 2.5 V6 which can be had for a fraction of the price.
I've never been into the GTA though, I've not driven one so maybe they are great to drive, but I always always thought they seemed over-priced for an old FWD V6 saloon despite the sporty badge. I'd prefer a 156 2.5 V6 which can be had for a fraction of the price.
hondafanatic said:
But delusional. Who's going to pay over 12k for a rusty 156 GTA when you can get a good one for that? I think the front wings are NLA too. I remember looking at quite a few years ago when I was after one. Been as far as Exeter and Aberdeen and every one had some sort of rust problem yet all owners wanted top dollar for them. I went to buy a black saloon (D2 GTA) that on inspection had a bad, closed door respray that I only found out upon arrival. Turns out the owner forgot to tell me it had been stolen/recovered and badly damaged as a result. Gave up looking for a good one after 4 failed inspections.
I'd still have one though.
hondafanatic said:
BFleming said:
feef said:
Yidwann said:
I never knew they did an estate version of this? I bet that is a rare thing now!
Single figures I believe In the peak there were about 350 GTA's in the UK, 10 of which were Selespeeds.
Today there are still 282 manual GTA's on the DVLA books, 200 taxed, and 82 SORN'd.
Of the Selespeeds, there are 5 taxed, and 6 SORN'd.
I know a few GTA's have come in as Japanese imports, some (but not all) RHD's.
Sadly the DVLA doesn't differentiate between saloon & Sportwagon models at high level, but is it really as low as single figures for the GTA Sportwagon in the UK? I'm skeptical.
https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1038899
K50 DEL said:
Dale487 said:
K50 DEL said:
Dale487 said:
K50 DEL said:
I had a 2.5 V6 156 for a little while as a company hack, still one of the nicest cars I've driven, even if some muppet configured it with green velour interior and the spoiler delete option.
Much like this GTA, the 156 shape just doesn't look right without that spoiler to me, so I'd love this car but would have to retrofit the spoiler or see what Novitec or similar could offer me.
What colour was it on the outside? Much like this GTA, the 156 shape just doesn't look right without that spoiler to me, so I'd love this car but would have to retrofit the spoiler or see what Novitec or similar could offer me.
He was probably right to as I had an Impreza as my company car at the same time and it always got a lot of attention whenever I went to those offices.
BFleming said:
feef said:
Yidwann said:
I never knew they did an estate version of this? I bet that is a rare thing now!
Single figures I believe In the peak there were about 350 GTA's in the UK, 10 of which were Selespeeds.
Today there are still 282 manual GTA's on the DVLA books, 200 taxed, and 82 SORN'd.
Of the Selespeeds, there are 5 taxed, and 6 SORN'd.
I know a few GTA's have come in as Japanese imports, some (but not all) RHD's.
Sadly the DVLA doesn't differentiate between saloon & Sportwagon models at high level, but is it really as low as single figures for the GTA Sportwagon in the UK? I'm skeptical.
Edited by velocemitch on Thursday 13th December 18:46
I have a Sportwagon GTA. Lovely thing, but it is the expensive way of owning a 3.2 - I know this because I also have a GT 3.2 and a 166 3.2. They cost almost nothing to run, and the GTA costs a bloody fortune.
Mechanically, the engine is solid. It doesn't use oil, and as long as you change the cambelt every 4 years, it will be fine. 4 years rather that 5 on the other engines as the inlet cams are lumpy and load the belt more. The 3.2 is incredibly sensitive to cam timing - a degree out on the exhaust cams and you'll have the most awful idle and the yellow engine light on. CF3 engines have catalysts in the manifolds and cook the engine bay - head gasket failure is a risk, as is cooking the ECU, which is bolted to the back of the plenum. ECUs are no longer available, and s/h ones trade on the black market for four figure sums....
Gearboxes are solid with the exception of the diff. A quaife LSD is a good option if you want to use the power. Change the oil. The heavy clutch is "myth" is just that - heavy is caused by the arm bushes - you can grease the top one directly, and the lower one can be lubed by dribbling EP90 down the shaft, then working the clutch. A worn clutch will slip and have a high bite point, like any worn clutch.
Electrics are fine. Yes, it's an Alfa, but it's all Bosch clobber. The rear electric windows fail from lack of use, but that is about it.
The killer is rust. Floor pans mainly, spreading into the sills. This is a 15 year old car now, so rust is to be expected, but these rust from the inside out. It's reasonably easily fixed as long as it is caught in time. Body work is unique and generally not available. There's the obvious stuff like wings - but you can't get wheel arch liners either. Or offside engine mounts. Or the jacking covers.
Suspension - the bushes are made of chocolate, and every single car out there will be b0rked unless it has been owned by someone very picky. KWV3s are the answer, along with completely refreshed suspension arms and Eibach ARBs.
If you just want a bit of 3.2 experience, get a GT. They cost buttons and don't have all the bodywork overhead.
Mechanically, the engine is solid. It doesn't use oil, and as long as you change the cambelt every 4 years, it will be fine. 4 years rather that 5 on the other engines as the inlet cams are lumpy and load the belt more. The 3.2 is incredibly sensitive to cam timing - a degree out on the exhaust cams and you'll have the most awful idle and the yellow engine light on. CF3 engines have catalysts in the manifolds and cook the engine bay - head gasket failure is a risk, as is cooking the ECU, which is bolted to the back of the plenum. ECUs are no longer available, and s/h ones trade on the black market for four figure sums....
Gearboxes are solid with the exception of the diff. A quaife LSD is a good option if you want to use the power. Change the oil. The heavy clutch is "myth" is just that - heavy is caused by the arm bushes - you can grease the top one directly, and the lower one can be lubed by dribbling EP90 down the shaft, then working the clutch. A worn clutch will slip and have a high bite point, like any worn clutch.
Electrics are fine. Yes, it's an Alfa, but it's all Bosch clobber. The rear electric windows fail from lack of use, but that is about it.
The killer is rust. Floor pans mainly, spreading into the sills. This is a 15 year old car now, so rust is to be expected, but these rust from the inside out. It's reasonably easily fixed as long as it is caught in time. Body work is unique and generally not available. There's the obvious stuff like wings - but you can't get wheel arch liners either. Or offside engine mounts. Or the jacking covers.
Suspension - the bushes are made of chocolate, and every single car out there will be b0rked unless it has been owned by someone very picky. KWV3s are the answer, along with completely refreshed suspension arms and Eibach ARBs.
If you just want a bit of 3.2 experience, get a GT. They cost buttons and don't have all the bodywork overhead.
Chap brought in a 150 JTS Wagen recently - which led me to discover that JTS stands for "Jet Thrust Stoichometric" - he was a big Alfa fan and he had history with them.
He'd owned a 156 GTA but it was ruinous on fuel and needed engine work so he'd upgraded to a 159 which was an absolute shambles which needed clutches/DMFs and all manner of other pricey parts so it was dumped that and bought this JTS - all it needed was it's extended crank and misfire solving
Extended crank almost certainly means cam/phase sensor - on these engines it's behind the exhaust cam drive so it's a timing-apart job - all I wanted was a signal tho, and I noticed an issue with that.
All the connectors in the engine bay have a reputation for breaking so someone had removed ALL of them - every single connection was now a permanently spliced wire - that makes things less fun to test and - frankly - who knows if they're wired right at that point??
We sorted a few other minor issues but even the Alfa workshop software wouldn't give me wiring detail enough to check all the wires were correct - which leaves you with a lot of work which no-one wants to pay for.
Alfas - they're just so special - he clearly loved it but you'd just not want to get involved at this point...
He'd owned a 156 GTA but it was ruinous on fuel and needed engine work so he'd upgraded to a 159 which was an absolute shambles which needed clutches/DMFs and all manner of other pricey parts so it was dumped that and bought this JTS - all it needed was it's extended crank and misfire solving
Extended crank almost certainly means cam/phase sensor - on these engines it's behind the exhaust cam drive so it's a timing-apart job - all I wanted was a signal tho, and I noticed an issue with that.
All the connectors in the engine bay have a reputation for breaking so someone had removed ALL of them - every single connection was now a permanently spliced wire - that makes things less fun to test and - frankly - who knows if they're wired right at that point??
We sorted a few other minor issues but even the Alfa workshop software wouldn't give me wiring detail enough to check all the wires were correct - which leaves you with a lot of work which no-one wants to pay for.
Alfas - they're just so special - he clearly loved it but you'd just not want to get involved at this point...
Edited by 406dogvan on Thursday 13th December 15:56
hondafanatic said:
BFleming said:
feef said:
Yidwann said:
I never knew they did an estate version of this? I bet that is a rare thing now!
Single figures I believe In the peak there were about 350 GTA's in the UK, 10 of which were Selespeeds.
Today there are still 282 manual GTA's on the DVLA books, 200 taxed, and 82 SORN'd.
Of the Selespeeds, there are 5 taxed, and 6 SORN'd.
I know a few GTA's have come in as Japanese imports, some (but not all) RHD's.
Sadly the DVLA doesn't differentiate between saloon & Sportwagon models at high level, but is it really as low as single figures for the GTA Sportwagon in the UK? I'm skeptical.
https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1038899
I remember my dad has a 2.4 156 Sportwagon when I was younger, in the light blue colour. I adored that car. Not as special an engine, but just a gorgeous car.
Sounds pretty reliable then.. "As long as the bodywork is good, make sure you change the cambelt" seems to be the takeaway..
Always thought the 156 was great looking car. No aggression, just quite elegant. Super engine, lovely seats, great paint.. What more could you ask for? Certainly better than the black on black on black colour-scheme which only serves to (partially) disguise the hideous blob you've bought nowadays.
Seriously considered a 147 GTA about 10 years ago, but the boredom of a brief drive in a standard 2.0l version proved to much ignore.
Always thought the 156 was great looking car. No aggression, just quite elegant. Super engine, lovely seats, great paint.. What more could you ask for? Certainly better than the black on black on black colour-scheme which only serves to (partially) disguise the hideous blob you've bought nowadays.
Seriously considered a 147 GTA about 10 years ago, but the boredom of a brief drive in a standard 2.0l version proved to much ignore.
Yidwann said:
I never knew they did an estate version of this? I bet that is a rare thing now!
Yes not many sold in the UK - estimated around 103. I had one of the first, had a chance to get the last and I still have it today. It's something I just can't part with, ashamed to say it does about 200 miles per year.....
I had a late (2005) one of these (so bigger brakes etc) and loved it. And it certainly wasn't the unreliable heap of legend. I drove mine out from London to Moscow and it coped with some truly atrocious roads and freezing winter weather much better than you'd ever imagine, especially given the poor ground clearance. The only things that broke in two years in Russia were the headlight washers and an ARB. The engine is wonderful.
And in contrast to all your nice shiny clean pictures!!:
And in contrast to all your nice shiny clean pictures!!:
Edited by Wolands Advocate on Friday 14th December 12:24
I’ve just done eibach arb’s, eibach springs, yellow konis, 330mm Brembos, discs/pads all round s/hand lower mileage engine,clutch, Q2 diff, full service, decat manifolds, wizard front pipes, scorpion cat back system and mot’d today my 156 GTA 3.2
It was off the road since February 2017 after timing belt snapped and I won’t sell it
It was off the road since February 2017 after timing belt snapped and I won’t sell it
MX6 said:
I always really liked the 156, I had a 2.0 TS and it was a really good car, one of the best daily drivers I've owned I would say. I also had a 159 subsequently which was a bit of a barge, the 156 was the much nicer drive.
I've never been into the GTA though, I've not driven one so maybe they are great to drive, but I always always thought they seemed over-priced for an old FWD V6 saloon despite the sporty badge. I'd prefer a 156 2.5 V6 which can be had for a fraction of the price.
I have to agree with you. Shame about it being wrong wheel drive. Right engine, ok looks, but then they make it shopping car configuration. Shame really for an Alfa... I've never been into the GTA though, I've not driven one so maybe they are great to drive, but I always always thought they seemed over-priced for an old FWD V6 saloon despite the sporty badge. I'd prefer a 156 2.5 V6 which can be had for a fraction of the price.
viggyp said:
Always loved the looks of the 156 until the GTA arrived. Curvaceous body with a horrible bodykit especially the squared off rear bumper. That's my only negative thought on this car as I love the way it drives and sounds.
I think the GTA bodykit is very much a marmite thing - personally, I love it - I think it's got a really "planted" stance that suits the car. To me, the GTA has aged a lot better than the standard shape, but I'm probably biased as I've had one parked on the drive for nearly 14 years....I've never owned another car for longer than 4 years, so that must say something.
K50 DEL said:
I had a 2.5 V6 156 for a little while as a company hack, still one of the nicest cars I've driven, even if some muppet configured it with green velour interior and the spoiler delete option.
Much like this GTA, the 156 shape just doesn't look right without that spoiler to me, so I'd love this car but would have to retrofit the spoiler or see what Novitec or similar could offer me.
To be quite honest I'm amazed to hear anyone say this. Are you talking about the massive wing spoiler?Much like this GTA, the 156 shape just doesn't look right without that spoiler to me, so I'd love this car but would have to retrofit the spoiler or see what Novitec or similar could offer me.
I had it on my 2.5 (now 3.0) and it is atrocious. It was the first thing I took off the car. It was embarrassing to be seen with it on. From every angle it makes the car look wrong. A truly horrendous design misstep. I honesty don't know how anyone with eyes could like it. No offence
and everyone I know completely agrees with that assessment.I have a full factory Zender body kit which I think is actually smarter looking than the GTA. Aside from the widened track and larger displacement there is not that much different mechanically on the GTA. The 2.5s are geared much shorter so a 2.5 with a 3.0 swap will be quicker off the line than a GTA. With a proper remap it will be up around 240bhp and if it's a phase 1 model will be quite a bit lighter than the GTA. And waaaaay cheaper to buy.
That said I've spent the guts of £7000 doing up my one over the last few years so I'd probably have a decent GTA bought by now with better risidual value. That said I could easily have ended up putting exactly the same amount of money into one of those.
Brilliant fin cars to drive. Once I get it resprayed I think it's a keeper for life.
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