RE: WRC to require electrified cars from 2022
Discussion
Gary C said:
I remember people lamenting that the new fangled aero was stopping cars going properly sideways, however it replaced the swingy arse with the 400 yard power drift which was much more exciting 
but Jon_S has a point.
But it was more than just the cars, it was a wave of hero's, extreme cars, proper stages, three manufactures battling and a host of others trying to catch up. Service halts that you could really get to see the cars close up, stages that you could get even closer to a car at full chat. Wings getting bigger and more extreme, while the technology which we thought was advanced at the time, was only really going in to power and traction, producing wild and lairy cars that took real drivers to tame
Actually, the EVO/WRX era was good fun too, especially as it produced a new flood of exciting road cars (bit like the 70's !) and some great battles and no one could ever call Colin Mcrae 'unexciting' to watch and rallying was again fun but it feels like it lost its way shorly afterwards.
Clearly a 'spectator' rather than someone actually involved in the sport, and I think this is where there are differences. but Jon_S has a point.
But it was more than just the cars, it was a wave of hero's, extreme cars, proper stages, three manufactures battling and a host of others trying to catch up. Service halts that you could really get to see the cars close up, stages that you could get even closer to a car at full chat. Wings getting bigger and more extreme, while the technology which we thought was advanced at the time, was only really going in to power and traction, producing wild and lairy cars that took real drivers to tame
Actually, the EVO/WRX era was good fun too, especially as it produced a new flood of exciting road cars (bit like the 70's !) and some great battles and no one could ever call Colin Mcrae 'unexciting' to watch and rallying was again fun but it feels like it lost its way shorly afterwards.
In over a decade of involvement in rallying from grass roots to international, I can count on two hands the amount of times I actually bothered to go and spectate.....
I would be up for watching WRC in person but they put it in Wales in Autumn every single year, why can't the rest of the UK have it occasionally so it can actually be a Rally GB?
Another thing that dissuades me is the fact the cars are all so small, I have a Blobeye WRX and most the reason I have one is due to it's rallying pedigree, the cars these days are just hot versions of cars your parents pop down to the shops in.
An enforced minimum wheelbase plus production models of the same shape would help matters massively and we may get desirable looking cars again that the public can buy in the showrooms.
Edit: looks like they may have to let other parts of the UK host otherwise face loosing it altogether https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/143416/move-awa...
Another thing that dissuades me is the fact the cars are all so small, I have a Blobeye WRX and most the reason I have one is due to it's rallying pedigree, the cars these days are just hot versions of cars your parents pop down to the shops in.
An enforced minimum wheelbase plus production models of the same shape would help matters massively and we may get desirable looking cars again that the public can buy in the showrooms.
Edit: looks like they may have to let other parts of the UK host otherwise face loosing it altogether https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/143416/move-awa...
untakenname said:
Edit: looks like they may have to let other parts of the UK host otherwise face loosing it altogether https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/143416/move-awa...
Rally GB would be a all-tarmac event for the first time ever.Clearly if Corsica and Germany (both effectively all-tarmac events, and definately all in the case of Corsica) then they will be looking for a suitable all-tarmac replacement, and a round in Eire/NI would certainley fit the bill.
1430 said:
Is the WRC even broadcast on TV, I've never seen one advert or any footage? It's not surprising it's not popular with 0 marketing , I bet most of the public couldn't even name a driver.
There are highlights of every rally on Freeview (think they're on 5Spike), while there is also live coverage on BT Sport. You can also have WRC All Live for £10 per month, which gives you live streaming across the weekend of every rally, along with interviews etc etcYou are absolutely right though, the championship isn't visible enough. While All Live is great, I think it was a mistake to charge for it (certainly to begin with anyway), as what WRC really needs is to grow its audience. In the UK, it would be nice if someone like ITV4 got hold of it, as they seem to do a decent job with motorsport. Would be good if they took on the British Championship as well, as that would also help to raise the profile. It seems to be a problem in a lot of sports really though. If they want to grow, they need to put themselves out there. It's no good if people have to look for you, as there are too many other distractions now.
aeropilot said:
Agree about the worst thing ever.
Some of us (me) being really old, keeping moaning about the fact it ever arrived and lament the era of 1978/9 as being about the highpoint of rallying. Probably the most ever manufacturer works teams, proper event lengths, proper engines, proper sideways, proper lunatic drivers, and club competitors being able to mix it with top boys on their home events............ where's my box of tissues
Some of us (me) being really old, keeping moaning about the fact it ever arrived and lament the era of 1978/9 as being about the highpoint of rallying. Probably the most ever manufacturer works teams, proper event lengths, proper engines, proper sideways, proper lunatic drivers, and club competitors being able to mix it with top boys on their home events............ where's my box of tissues
Gary C said:
I remember people lamenting that the new fangled aero was stopping cars going properly sideways, however it replaced the swingy arse with the 400 yard power drift which was much more exciting
but Jon_S has a point.
But it was more than just the cars, it was a wave of hero's, extreme cars, proper stages, three manufactures battling and a host of others trying to catch up. Service halts that you could really get to see the cars close up, stages that you could get even closer to a car at full chat. Wings getting bigger and more extreme, while the technology which we thought was advanced at the time, was only really going in to power and traction, producing wild and lairy cars that took real drivers to tame
Actually, the EVO/WRX era was good fun too, especially as it produced a new flood of exciting road cars (bit like the 70's !) and some great battles and no one could ever call Colin Mcrae 'unexciting' to watch and rallying was again fun but it feels like it lost its way shorly afterwards.
I think the two above illustrate part of the issue really. While the Group 4, Group B and Group A eras were all fantastic in their own way, they're gone. It's no good endlessly pining about it, or wishing every rally car could still be RWD, or have a V6 engine or whatever else, those days are dead and we need to move on.but Jon_S has a point.
But it was more than just the cars, it was a wave of hero's, extreme cars, proper stages, three manufactures battling and a host of others trying to catch up. Service halts that you could really get to see the cars close up, stages that you could get even closer to a car at full chat. Wings getting bigger and more extreme, while the technology which we thought was advanced at the time, was only really going in to power and traction, producing wild and lairy cars that took real drivers to tame
Actually, the EVO/WRX era was good fun too, especially as it produced a new flood of exciting road cars (bit like the 70's !) and some great battles and no one could ever call Colin Mcrae 'unexciting' to watch and rallying was again fun but it feels like it lost its way shorly afterwards.
I found Gary's post interesting actually. Reading the third paragraph, talking about extreme cars, manufacturers battling etc etc, isn't that what basically we have now? While the Loeb era of dominance, with only two teams, was a bit of a low point, the last couple of seasons have been a real return to form.
aeropilot said:
Clearly a 'spectator' rather than someone actually involved in the sport, and I think this is where there are differences.
In over a decade of involvement in rallying from grass roots to international, I can count on two hands the amount of times I actually bothered to go and spectate.....
Always found this a slightly odd viewpoint, though certainly not an unusual one in the rallying world. I've been involved for around a decade and, even if I am servicing or in some official capacity, I always try and spectate if I can. Why don't you spectate out of interest? Seems odd to me for someone to be so closely involved in something that is, at times, pretty hard work and unrewarding, to not be passionate enough about it to want to watch.In over a decade of involvement in rallying from grass roots to international, I can count on two hands the amount of times I actually bothered to go and spectate.....
untakenname said:
I would be up for watching WRC in person but they put it in Wales in Autumn every single year, why can't the rest of the UK have it occasionally so it can actually be a Rally GB?
Another thing that dissuades me is the fact the cars are all so small, I have a Blobeye WRX and most the reason I have one is due to it's rallying pedigree, the cars these days are just hot versions of cars your parents pop down to the shops in.
An enforced minimum wheelbase plus production models of the same shape would help matters massively and we may get desirable looking cars again that the public can buy in the showrooms.
Edit: looks like they may have to let other parts of the UK host otherwise face loosing it altogether https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/143416/move-awa...
Yes, there's now talk of it rotating around the UK. Whether that will happen or not I don't know. Ultimately though, the UK is pretty small, so going to Wales isn't that hard . I live in Norfolk, so the opposite side of the country, and I have been for the last couple of years.Another thing that dissuades me is the fact the cars are all so small, I have a Blobeye WRX and most the reason I have one is due to it's rallying pedigree, the cars these days are just hot versions of cars your parents pop down to the shops in.
An enforced minimum wheelbase plus production models of the same shape would help matters massively and we may get desirable looking cars again that the public can buy in the showrooms.
Edit: looks like they may have to let other parts of the UK host otherwise face loosing it altogether https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/143416/move-awa...
On the car thing, weren't the rallying Imprezas just a hot version of a car that someone's parents pop down the shops in? I don't think it matters too much that the cars are from the B-segment rather than the C-segment, does it? B-segment cars can still be fast/fun? As for cars you can buy in showrooms, it's not happening. Those days are long gone. Introducing homologation requirements would have the manufacturers running for the hills in no time. Oddly, people seem to wax lyrical about Group B and those cars were made in such tiny numbers that virtually no one could buy them. Didn't seem to stop people loving that era.
I say this to everyone who questions WRC - just go and watch it. Go to Oulton Park and watch the first stages this year. I suspect much of the criticism would disappear. We really don't know how good we've got it currently.
Whether that continues into the hybrid era is a very different question of course...
Edited by Jon_S_Rally on Thursday 20th June 10:28
Jon_S_Rally said:
Always found this a slightly odd viewpoint, though certainly not an unusual one in the rallying world. I've been involved for around a decade and, even if I am servicing or in some official capacity, I always try and spectate if I can. Why don't you spectate out of interest? Seems odd to me for someone to be so closely involved in something that is, at times, pretty hard work and unrewarding, to not be passionate enough about it to want to watch.
I loved the participation in rallying, be it driving, navigating, service crew or marshalling......just found it all too much of a chore to go and watch it, just wasn't interesting enough for the amount of effort.......But, that's probably also because I was much more interested in Rallycross as a spectator sport, and living in London, Brands Hatch, Lydden Hill etc were more accessible than Kielder, Cumbria, Wales etc.
A lot of negativity on here about this, Advancing racing technologically is crucial for the domestic market and planet, it will only improve racing as a whole. There will still be Classic events for ICE cars, a lot of the technology we have in cars now came out of motorsport development, so some of the new technology developed for these cars will filter down to your every day motor.
I wonder if we wound the clock back 150 years all the moaners would be saying the same about moving racing from Horse and Carriage to ICE cars. If it was up to them, would we even have electric trains now or still be on steam power?
Technology will move forward, moaning about it will not change it so you may as well embrace it, there is nothing wrong with remembering the older technology fondly though.
I wonder if we wound the clock back 150 years all the moaners would be saying the same about moving racing from Horse and Carriage to ICE cars. If it was up to them, would we even have electric trains now or still be on steam power?
Technology will move forward, moaning about it will not change it so you may as well embrace it, there is nothing wrong with remembering the older technology fondly though.
MECHENG84 said:
A lot of negativity on here about this, Advancing racing technologically is crucial for the domestic market and planet, it will only improve racing as a whole. There will still be Classic events for ICE cars, a lot of the technology we have in cars now came out of motorsport development, so some of the new technology developed for these cars will filter down to your every day motor.
I wonder if we wound the clock back 150 years all the moaners would be saying the same about moving racing from Horse and Carriage to ICE cars. If it was up to them, would we even have electric trains now or still be on steam power?
Technology will move forward, moaning about it will not change it so you may as well embrace it, there is nothing wrong with remembering the older technology fondly though.
You're right but, sadly, rallying is one of the most backward looking sports in the world. 30-odd percent of most rally entries in the UK are 40-year old Ford Escorts. That tells you all you need to know about how good it is at adopting new things I wonder if we wound the clock back 150 years all the moaners would be saying the same about moving racing from Horse and Carriage to ICE cars. If it was up to them, would we even have electric trains now or still be on steam power?
Technology will move forward, moaning about it will not change it so you may as well embrace it, there is nothing wrong with remembering the older technology fondly though.
aeropilot said:
Gary C said:
I remember people lamenting that the new fangled aero was stopping cars going properly sideways, however it replaced the swingy arse with the 400 yard power drift which was much more exciting
but Jon_S has a point.
But it was more than just the cars, it was a wave of hero's, extreme cars, proper stages, three manufactures battling and a host of others trying to catch up. Service halts that you could really get to see the cars close up, stages that you could get even closer to a car at full chat. Wings getting bigger and more extreme, while the technology which we thought was advanced at the time, was only really going in to power and traction, producing wild and lairy cars that took real drivers to tame
Actually, the EVO/WRX era was good fun too, especially as it produced a new flood of exciting road cars (bit like the 70's !) and some great battles and no one could ever call Colin Mcrae 'unexciting' to watch and rallying was again fun but it feels like it lost its way shorly afterwards.
Clearly a 'spectator' rather than someone actually involved in the sport, and I think this is where there are differences. but Jon_S has a point.
But it was more than just the cars, it was a wave of hero's, extreme cars, proper stages, three manufactures battling and a host of others trying to catch up. Service halts that you could really get to see the cars close up, stages that you could get even closer to a car at full chat. Wings getting bigger and more extreme, while the technology which we thought was advanced at the time, was only really going in to power and traction, producing wild and lairy cars that took real drivers to tame
Actually, the EVO/WRX era was good fun too, especially as it produced a new flood of exciting road cars (bit like the 70's !) and some great battles and no one could ever call Colin Mcrae 'unexciting' to watch and rallying was again fun but it feels like it lost its way shorly afterwards.
In over a decade of involvement in rallying from grass roots to international, I can count on two hands the amount of times I actually bothered to go and spectate.....
Sound like an accusation
My rally driving was limited to road rallying in the mid 80's, great fun.
I take it you competed in World Rally/WRC events then, respect
But, I dont think rallying as a competitor has ever been boring
Jon_S_Rally said:
I found Gary's post interesting actually. Reading the third paragraph, talking about extreme cars, manufacturers battling etc etc, isn't that what basically we have now? While the Loeb era of dominance, with only two teams, was a bit of a low point, the last couple of seasons have been a real return to form.
Actually, thats a really good point. I stopped watching when it got a bit dominant, but nothing has pulled me back.Edited by Jon_S_Rally on Thursday 20th June 10:28
Must give it another go.
What channel is it on ?
Jon_S_Rally said:
You're right but, sadly, rallying is one of the most backward looking sports in the world. 30-odd percent of most rally entries in the UK are 40-year old Ford Escorts. That tells you all you need to know about how good it is at adopting new things
In my view not at all, it shows how the push for 'more expensive higher tech toys' beyond the finances of most grass roots club competitors and the death of road rallying, and suitable venues for single venue events in many parts of the UK, just highlights the ever yawning gap between the 'spectacle' of WRC and the lack of younger people to the sport, largely as many youngsters aren't even bothering to learn to drive.When I think of the age spread of people in my local motor club, and the amount of activity compared with the same club 40 years later, there are way bigger problems for the sport going forward than adopting new things.
I joined my local motor club 2 weeks after passing my driving test, age 17, and entered my first local road rally 4 months later. My old motor club hasn't had any new members under the age of 40 join up for years now, and you can forget about road rallies in the south-east these days, not to mention most of the old airfield based single venue being lost to housing estates.
And you wonder why 30% of rally entries are Escorts!
Jon_S_Rally said:
You're right but, sadly, rallying is one of the most backward looking sports in the world. 30-odd percent of most rally entries in the UK are 40-year old Ford Escorts. That tells you all you need to know about how good it is at adopting new things
I just see it as there's room for both, I love the Escort mk1 and mk2 and a whole heap of other classics, plus they're so important to contributing to the next generation. We learn from the existing stuff and improve it on the next generation. Whilst the drivetrain and sound on an EV is different from an ICE, the idea won't have changed - get round a track as fast as possible! But I see your point as well, I have a set of boxer shorts that are falling apart but I just can't bring myself to start wearing the new one's yet Gary C said:
Err, yes ?
Sound like an accusation
Weirdly, this sort of thing seems to come up now and again too. I see quite a bit of malice directed at rally spectators (not suggesting that's the case here by the way). It seems that some feel like they aren't giving anything to the sport. I'm not sure where they expect we'll get new marshals/competitors from if no one watches to be honest.Sound like an accusation
Gary C said:
Actually, thats a really good point. I stopped watching when it got a bit dominant, but nothing has pulled me back.
Must give it another go.
What channel is it on ?
5Spike usually I think. The WRC also do daily videos on YouTube over the course of a rally weekend.Must give it another go.
What channel is it on ?
aeropilot said:
In my view not at all, it shows how the push for 'more expensive higher tech toys' beyond the finances of most grass roots club competitors and the death of road rallying, and suitable venues for single venue events in many parts of the UK, just highlights the ever yawning gap between the 'spectacle' of WRC and the lack of younger people to the sport, largely as many youngsters aren't even bothering to learn to drive.
When I think of the age spread of people in my local motor club, and the amount of activity compared with the same club 40 years later, there are way bigger problems for the sport going forward than adopting new things.
I joined my local motor club 2 weeks after passing my driving test, age 17, and entered my first local road rally 4 months later. My old motor club hasn't had any new members under the age of 40 join up for years now, and you can forget about road rallies in the south-east these days, not to mention most of the old airfield based single venue being lost to housing estates.
And you wonder why 30% of rally entries are Escorts!
I would disagree with elements with this. Many of those Escorts are using sequential transmissions, modern engines and fancy Reiger dampers, so pretty high tech in relation to where those cars started. We have club competitors spending huge sums of money on building old cars but, if you raise the idea of building something more modern with most of them, they turn their noses up, simply because, in their minds, it's not "proper".When I think of the age spread of people in my local motor club, and the amount of activity compared with the same club 40 years later, there are way bigger problems for the sport going forward than adopting new things.
I joined my local motor club 2 weeks after passing my driving test, age 17, and entered my first local road rally 4 months later. My old motor club hasn't had any new members under the age of 40 join up for years now, and you can forget about road rallies in the south-east these days, not to mention most of the old airfield based single venue being lost to housing estates.
And you wonder why 30% of rally entries are Escorts!
I agree that venues are a problem though, particularly in my area. One thing I do wonder though is, what incentive is there for venues to accept us? Could we be doing more and bringing benefits to areas so that people actually want us there?
As for clubs, lordy, where to begin. You are absolutely right that motor clubs are struggling to attract members, especially younger ones but, as someone who is quite active in their local club, I can't say I am surprised. The days of people passing their test and joining their local motor club are long gone. I know loads of young lads who are into their cars and most of them have more than enough money to compete at grass roots level, but where's the incentive to join a club and do so? The typical motor club in the UK is still doing its monthly "natter and noggin" in the local pub and just hoping that people will magically come along and join. Does a 20-something want to go and sit in a pub with a load of beardy blokes in their 50s and 60s? I doubt it. When it comes to events, we're still pushing autoSOLO and Autotest like they're the future. The young guys I know that are into cars drive RS3s and M3s. They're not interested in driving round cones in a 1.0-litre Micra on an old airfield. They'd rather do a track day, where they can drive their 400+bhp car at 150mph.
The only positive we have at the bottom end is targa rallies in my view, which do represent good value, but it's very hard to get people through the door when most people don't even know these clubs/events even exist. I have taken on much of the responsibility for promotion in my local club and the reluctance among members to change is staggering at times. I have created social media platforms and the reaction from some is, "What do we need those for?" Seriously?! I've put together club leaflets, worked with another member to produce club-branded clothing and tried to get the club to engage with events in the area. It seems a no-brainer to me to have a club stand at every car show/meet in your club's area but, again, you'd be amazed at the number of people that don't see any value in it. God knows how they think that they're going to find new members.
The motor club model is deeply out-dated unfortunately. I hope Motorsport UK are going to help to improve things, but it's going to take an awful lot of work. While I have huge respect for the work many club members across the UK put in when it comes to organising events, when it comes to PR, we are living in the dark ages. They just haven't moved with the times and are now so far behind, that it's becoming almost impossible to catch up. So you're right, the problems are big, but a lack of openness to new things is at the very heart of it. From cars to social media, clubs and club motorsport in general are just very reluctant to look beyond the safety of what they know.
I'm going over to Ypres next weekend and the entry for that is very different to most UK rallies. I can't wait.
MECHENG84 said:
I just see it as there's room for both, I love the Escort mk1 and mk2 and a whole heap of other classics, plus they're so important to contributing to the next generation. We learn from the existing stuff and improve it on the next generation. Whilst the drivetrain and sound on an EV is different from an ICE, the idea won't have changed - get round a track as fast as possible! But I see your point as well, I have a set of boxer shorts that are falling apart but I just can't bring myself to start wearing the new one's yet
You're right. Cars like the Escort are a really important part of our rallying heritage, so should be celebrated, but I also think a line has to be drawn too. Pre-1980 cars can run to lower weight limits than their modern counterparts, but can use modern engines, transmissions and suspension. That in itself means that anyone who wants to build a modern car is at an instant disadvantage. The rules in the UK seem to penalise turbocharged cars with an arbitrary capacity multiplier, meaning a little 1.0-litre turbo Fiesta ends up in the same class as 280bhp, 850kg Escorts. With that in mind, why would anyone bother with the Fiesta?I am generally pretty uncomfortable with penalising people or controlling their choices but, if rallying wants to stay relevant and attract new people, I think the time might be upon us to start taking away the advantage of some of the older machinery.
Edited by Jon_S_Rally on Thursday 20th June 15:57
Edited by Jon_S_Rally on Thursday 20th June 15:58
Edited by Jon_S_Rally on Thursday 20th June 15:59
you're right about the clubs. IMHO they do more harm than good for encouraging participation. There is a club up north that is based 'online' which is thriving, but every other club is on its arse and deservedly so in some cases.
I got involved in a club a few years ago, I eventually was asked to leave by the committee because I wasn't following protocol. It appeared obvious to me that membership numbers was the biggest issue so I set about trying to increase that, using a very little of the clubs money to set up a 'rally for £5 initiative with a local rally school.' That is a new member joins the club for £20 and for a further fiver, they get to drive a rally car... pretty compelling I thought and absolutely do able with minimal ( no) risk to the club. However because I move quickly, and wanted answers between monthly 'noggin's' I did most of my canvassing via email, which incurred the wrath of the elders...
MUK needs to take a good hard look at the motor clubs and help them modernise for the21st century 1990's and then maybe we can see some increase in membership and ultimately participation.
I got involved in a club a few years ago, I eventually was asked to leave by the committee because I wasn't following protocol. It appeared obvious to me that membership numbers was the biggest issue so I set about trying to increase that, using a very little of the clubs money to set up a 'rally for £5 initiative with a local rally school.' That is a new member joins the club for £20 and for a further fiver, they get to drive a rally car... pretty compelling I thought and absolutely do able with minimal ( no) risk to the club. However because I move quickly, and wanted answers between monthly 'noggin's' I did most of my canvassing via email, which incurred the wrath of the elders...
MUK needs to take a good hard look at the motor clubs and help them modernise for the
Jerry Can said:
you're right about the clubs. IMHO they do more harm than good for encouraging participation. There is a club up north that is based 'online' which is thriving, but every other club is on its arse and deservedly so in some cases.
I got involved in a club a few years ago, I eventually was asked to leave by the committee because I wasn't following protocol. It appeared obvious to me that membership numbers was the biggest issue so I set about trying to increase that, using a very little of the clubs money to set up a 'rally for £5 initiative with a local rally school.' That is a new member joins the club for £20 and for a further fiver, they get to drive a rally car... pretty compelling I thought and absolutely do able with minimal ( no) risk to the club. However because I move quickly, and wanted answers between monthly 'noggin's' I did most of my canvassing via email, which incurred the wrath of the elders...
MUK needs to take a good hard look at the motor clubs and help them modernise for the21st century 1990's and then maybe we can see some increase in membership and ultimately participation.
Yeah it seems a common theme among many I've spoken to unfortunately. While clubs are very good at the technical/regulatory side of event organisation, they are really struggling when it comes to the PR side. It's understandable to some degree of course, as it's far from easy, and I don't think the MSA helped nearly enough. That being said, the unwillingness to try new things is deeply frustrating for many who want to help.I got involved in a club a few years ago, I eventually was asked to leave by the committee because I wasn't following protocol. It appeared obvious to me that membership numbers was the biggest issue so I set about trying to increase that, using a very little of the clubs money to set up a 'rally for £5 initiative with a local rally school.' That is a new member joins the club for £20 and for a further fiver, they get to drive a rally car... pretty compelling I thought and absolutely do able with minimal ( no) risk to the club. However because I move quickly, and wanted answers between monthly 'noggin's' I did most of my canvassing via email, which incurred the wrath of the elders...
MUK needs to take a good hard look at the motor clubs and help them modernise for the
MUK do seem a lot more switched-on, so here's hoping they make some changes. There are probably far too many clubs in reality. In my region, we're almost into double figures of clubs, covering only five counties. The world is a lot smaller than it used to be, so I don't think that many clubs is really necessary anymore. Combining resources might make things much easier too.
Jon_S_Rally said:
untakenname said:
I would be up for watching WRC in person but they put it in Wales in Autumn every single year, why can't the rest of the UK have it occasionally so it can actually be a Rally GB?
Yes, there's now talk of it rotating around the UK. Whether that will happen or not I don't know. Most of the threat is to shake up the event as is been pretty much the same format for 3 yrs now. alternating stage directions aside. I'm not against it going, but im not sure NI is the place for it. people think its expensive coming to Wales. wait till the ferry companies monopolise the crossings the week before the event until the week after! it won't just affect the teams then either.
Jon_S_Rally said:
On the car thing, weren't the rallying Imprezas just a hot version of a car that someone's parents pop down the shops in?
Lets not forget the Legacy was nothing other than a low sales number farmers car in the uk before Mr McRae started rolling it through British countrysides!RyanTank said:
That all comes down to money. Welsh Gov invests £1.5m a year to keep it in Wales. plus money from Conwy councils for being host city. the "why can't it move around, Wales is boring/to far" argument comes up year after year. and the answer remains the same. any other council willing to take on the cost can have it. provided they have enough stage mileage to fulfil the event in close proximity as Wales does.
Most of the threat is to shake up the event as is been pretty much the same format for 3 yrs now. alternating stage directions aside. I'm not against it going, but im not sure NI is the place for it. people think its expensive coming to Wales. wait till the ferry companies monopolise the crossings the week before the event until the week after! it won't just affect the teams then either.
It's a troubling situation. I think we should be extremely grateful for the support the Welsh government has shown. Moving it away from Wales just to please Olivier Cesla (who is a bit of a sMost of the threat is to shake up the event as is been pretty much the same format for 3 yrs now. alternating stage directions aside. I'm not against it going, but im not sure NI is the place for it. people think its expensive coming to Wales. wait till the ferry companies monopolise the crossings the week before the event until the week after! it won't just affect the teams then either.
t stirrer in reality) and then ending up in the financial wilderness with no WRC round at all would be a disaster.My feelings are a little mixed regarding a move to NI. As a one-off, I am ok with it in a way. Seeing those cars and the lanes of Northern Ireland would be absolutely fantastic and, if it happens, I am 100% going. However, part of the reasons behind the move also seemed to be about getting rallying in front of people and, while Ireland is a great place, I'm not sure it really fills the "in front of people" criteria. As you say, it is also a pain to get to compared to anything on the mainland, especially when an event like Corsica is criticised for those very reasons.
The only other places with suitable stage options are Scotland and the very north of England - hardly easy to access and close to massive population either. Wales has a lot of advantages really.
I'd go wherever it moves to to be honest. just make a proper weekend of it as opposed to my up n down in a day or overnight bunkhouse like currently do.
A move to Scotland brings much of the concerns they keep raising with N Wales. Country roads unsuitable for the numbers WRGB attract. sod all for miles outside of towns/cities etc. Similar points depending where they base it in NI.
Depending on the conditions of the tree disease her in south/mid Wales there could be a scope to locate it centrally again and access some of the upper reaches of stages like Epynt/Crychan. interesting to see what comes out after this years event as current trend is for even higher spectator numbers and can the WRC/MSUK risk losing the funding/ticket sales a big move could face? we can only wait and see.
One bonus I see of it moving to NI in winter will be a wet tarmac event is highly likely, which is almost a novelty in the WRC right now. as aside form Monte the rest of the tarmac rounds are held in the warmer months.
A move to Scotland brings much of the concerns they keep raising with N Wales. Country roads unsuitable for the numbers WRGB attract. sod all for miles outside of towns/cities etc. Similar points depending where they base it in NI.
Depending on the conditions of the tree disease her in south/mid Wales there could be a scope to locate it centrally again and access some of the upper reaches of stages like Epynt/Crychan. interesting to see what comes out after this years event as current trend is for even higher spectator numbers and can the WRC/MSUK risk losing the funding/ticket sales a big move could face? we can only wait and see.
One bonus I see of it moving to NI in winter will be a wet tarmac event is highly likely, which is almost a novelty in the WRC right now. as aside form Monte the rest of the tarmac rounds are held in the warmer months.
It's odd that some people are calling for larger cars, possibly Evo & WRX fans. No one was complaining that Pug 205, Turbo 2 and Deltas were to small. The difference in size between an Integrale and a modern production Fiesta is negligible. A current WRC Fiesta obviously being wider.
Regarding hybridisation and full EV, I'm all for it. If anything, such instant power and regeneration under braking will only add to the required skill of the driver and navigator.
Regarding hybridisation and full EV, I'm all for it. If anything, such instant power and regeneration under braking will only add to the required skill of the driver and navigator.
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