E400d 354bhp merc

Author
Discussion

yonex

12,968 posts

106 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
Evidence v gut feeling
Every Audi I’ve owned and driven, every mercedes similar. I just prefer the dynamics of BMW.



J4CKO

26,330 posts

138 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
Wont most choosing a diesel just go for one of the lower output ones, they do a fine job and are generally plenty fast enough, probably why BMW dont bother with the higher output ones.

I think it becomes harder to justify a diesel when the cost to buy and fuel it creeps up, and E220D does the job for most as after all, you are buying it to do decent MPG, put a much bigger engine in with more cylinders the car gets more pricey and it looses the advantage and just going fast for the sake of it rarely enters into it, its a neat party trick but not that much use.

So you get a polarization, taxi spec E classes, big gap and then AMG's, I know some buy the big power diesel ones but its fairly low numbers so I can see why its not worth getting certain engines set up for sale in the UK, its not I guess as simple as plonk it in and ship it over, there will be tests, possibly fitment challenges, certifications and all sorts, then they sell 100 or so of them.

Also, diesels days are numbered one way or another, whatever the reasons and facts are, people are getting nervous about dropping fifty odd grand on something that could be legislated against, possibly unfair but we do get defensive when laying out all that cash.

Wills2

15,269 posts

113 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
aponting389 said:
Welshbeef said:
Yes latest M5 has 575bhp latest E63 has what 612bhp from a smaller capacity.

What am I missing?
the facts?

E63 563bhp
E63s 604hp

M5 592bhp
M5 Competition 616bhp
Facts are not something that worry Welshbeef...

yonex

12,968 posts

106 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
And
4.0 v 4.4ltr

Taking standard models the power per ltr is
Merc E63 140.75bhp/ltr
BMW M5 135.55bhp/ltr

So the Merc produces 5.3% more power per ltr - maybe trounced is a bit strong but beaten/lost is fair.
What exactly is this thread about. It started talking about diesel barges and is now into dick waving about 600HP M/AMG variants?

Is there a point?

Welshbeef

Original Poster:

35,142 posts

136 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
yonex said:
What exactly is this thread about. It started talking about diesel barges and is now into dick waving about 600HP M/AMG variants?

Is there a point?
It’s about the Diesel - however a poster challenged a few times as such I responded.
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Exige77

3,190 posts

129 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
yonex said:
What exactly is this thread about. It started talking about diesel barges and is now into dick waving about 600HP M/AMG variants?

Is there a point?
It’s about the Diesel - however a poster challenged a few times as such I responded.
I think you mentioned BMW diesel engines are on a spiral of death and also mentioned that “even” their top petrol performance engine was “trounced” by Mercedes offering ?

Something like that ?

st4

735 posts

71 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
Salmonofdoubt said:
Yes because the second a car leaves the warm fuzzy confines of a main dealer network it becomes a ticking time bomb of doom.

Are you 12?

Cars get cheaper, it doesn't mean they're all going to die. If that was the case we would scrap everything that's done it's warranted miles and start again.
With modern high output diesels a warranty is a nice thing to have. There’s plenty to go wrong and it often does. I’d be amazed if this was anything different ownership wise.

JD

1,725 posts

166 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
Wills2 said:
Facts are not something that worry Welshbeef...
Which should be even more obvious given the bhp figure in the title is wrong!

Salmonofdoubt

368 posts

6 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
st4 said:
With modern high output diesels a warranty is a nice thing to have. There’s plenty to go wrong and it often does. I’d be amazed if this was anything different ownership wise.
I'm sure a warranty is nice to have but the OP claimed it would take a crazy person to buy one out of warranty. Plenty of people run 350d and x35/40d engines and a number of other high powered diesels out of warranty and aren't constantly paying a mechanic to keep it running.

Welshbeef

Original Poster:

35,142 posts

136 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
Salmonofdoubt said:
I'm sure a warranty is nice to have but the OP claimed it would take a crazy person to buy one out of warranty. Plenty of people run 350d and x35/40d engines and a number of other high powered diesels out of warranty and aren't constantly paying a mechanic to keep it running.
No
I replied to someone who said buy one on eBay instead or “I’m sure you might find one on eBay” to which I replied you’d be crazy to do that no OEM AUC warranty - unless it is a boatload less.

I think it was the poster who loves 944’s who brought up eBay...

yonex

12,968 posts

106 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
No
I replied to someone who said buy one on eBay instead or “I’m sure you might find one on eBay” to which I replied you’d be crazy to do that no OEM AUC warranty - unless it is a boatload less.

I think it was the poster who loves 944’s who brought up eBay...
I think he was referring to the now infamous eBay purchase?

Could be wrong though.

underphil

1,007 posts

148 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
gizlaroc said:
I don't like pano roofs, I don't want radar, I don't feel the need for a parking camera, but would like the better headlights and hifi.
Offering a set menu is fine, but don't stop offering the A La Carte options!


Mercedes UK have made some pretty crap decisions over the few years imho.

The whole UK line up is very blingy, with everything offered to either those that want AMG or the sales rep with the diesels and fake black leather.

But then you have the issue that the packs also put many of the cars over the magical £40k price point too.

All in all I do wonder who is making these decisions at Mercedes UK?

Edited by gizlaroc on Monday 11th February 09:45
and in addition to the petrol/diesel comparison, petrol is a fair bit cheaper these days..

Alex_225

3,060 posts

139 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
My daily/motorway car is an old 3.2 six cylinder diesel with a remap. That has some hefty torque and I think it's an excellent engine albeit typical old diesel noise. My other half has a CLS350 with the V6 diesel which is smooth, quiet and actually a real pleasure to drive.

I can imagine this E400 would make an excellent cruiser, designed to cover plenty of miles with effortless overtaking and decent fuel economy.

Welshbeef

Original Poster:

35,142 posts

136 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
yonex said:
Welshbeef said:
No
I replied to someone who said buy one on eBay instead or “I’m sure you might find one on eBay” to which I replied you’d be crazy to do that no OEM AUC warranty - unless it is a boatload less.

I think it was the poster who loves 944’s who brought up eBay...
I think he was referring to the now infamous eBay purchase?

Could be wrong though.
I know that’s why I replied - those trolls need feeding.

gizlaroc

11,896 posts

162 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
Alex_225 said:
My daily/motorway car is an old 3.2 six cylinder diesel with a remap. That has some hefty torque and I think it's an excellent engine albeit typical old diesel noise. My other half has a CLS350 with the V6 diesel which is smooth, quiet and actually a real pleasure to drive.

I can imagine this E400 would make an excellent cruiser, designed to cover plenty of miles with effortless overtaking and decent fuel economy.
The CLS 350 petrol is even sweeter than her CLS 350d, and roughly 10% worse off at the pump, and remember, the pump is around 7% more expensive with the black handle too, so real world fuel costs are peanuts.

Don't get me wrong, the diesel is great, but in a 'luxury' German motor the petrol does make it feel even more special, smoother and more refined when cruising around and faster, more exciting and nicer sounding when having fun.

The E450 petrol and E400d are the same price.
It will cost you around £800 a month in depreciation for either.
Fuel doing 15k miles a year will cost around £150 a month for someone getting 42mpg from the diesel, and around £170 a month for someone getting 34mpg in the petrol.
As an overall cost it is what? 2% difference?

Yet we still all order the diesel as we all think the petrol will cost so much more.



Edit: German site actually says 34mpg for the E450 and 40mpg for the E400d.




Edited by gizlaroc on Monday 11th February 14:54

thiscocks

1,867 posts

133 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
J4CKO said:
Wont most choosing a diesel just go for one of the lower output ones, they do a fine job and are generally plenty fast enough, probably why BMW dont bother with the higher output ones.

I think it becomes harder to justify a diesel when the cost to buy and fuel it creeps up, and E220D does the job for most as after all, you are buying it to do decent MPG, put a much bigger engine in with more cylinders the car gets more pricey and it looses the advantage and just going fast for the sake of it rarely enters into it, its a neat party trick but not that much use.

So you get a polarization, taxi spec E classes, big gap and then AMG's, I know some buy the big power diesel ones but its fairly low numbers so I can see why its not worth getting certain engines set up for sale in the UK, its not I guess as simple as plonk it in and ship it over, there will be tests, possibly fitment challenges, certifications and all sorts, then they sell 100 or so of them.

Also, diesels days are numbered one way or another, whatever the reasons and facts are, people are getting nervous about dropping fifty odd grand on something that could be legislated against, possibly unfair but we do get defensive when laying out all that cash.
I would choose a big powerful diesel in a big saloon /estate any day over for example a big petrol V8. Yes the petrol is a nicer engine but in a large car for daily duties Ive always like the idea of a modern big diesel. They suit road driving so well, with effortless torque and now good refinement. I also do not enjoy filling cars up with fuel. For regular use give me an E400d over a E53.

theboss

4,124 posts

157 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
I quite like big diesel barges / estates too, and say that as somebody doing 30k/year in an M5. Each have their merits and sometimes it can get a bit tedious filling the car twice a week and spending £800/month on fuel no matter what’s its costing in depreciation.

thiscocks

1,867 posts

133 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
gizlaroc said:
Edit: German site actually says 34mpg for the E450 and 40mpg for the E400d.




Edited by gizlaroc on Monday 11th February 14:54
I have the E450 at 23mpg and the E400d at 47mpg combined. Big difference.

iSore

3,867 posts

82 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
Croutons said:
Diesel sales down 38% last year. Before you’ve considered the exchange rate. Why would manufacturers bring out RHD specials just for us, “because it does 0-60 in 5 seconds”? There isn’t the volume.
Because Mercedes, and because they can.

They don't seem very inclined to hide behind corporate envirobullsh*t either.

They do daft things like the SLS and thundering V8 Kompressors because it's what they do.

Good for them I say.

Ares

7,683 posts

58 months

Monday 11th February
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
yonex said:
Can’t see what all the fuss is about. Bloody great taxi with a big engine.
Isn’t it outputting similar to the BMW Aplina D5?

BMW offer Europe the 540d the M550d and the alpine D5.

U.K. get offered now 530d 261bhp.... my 8 year old F10 OE is 535d 300bhp and the run out versions were 313/318bhp what a massive setback.
The 540i is nice but as BMW are making the 540d and 550d surely the cost per unit would decrease if they offered it RHD (F10 couldn’t have M550d unit due to a shell design issue but the current 5 series doesn’t have that issue).
BMW diesel sales are dropping, and the 540i doesn't offer significantly worse enough mpg to warrant the diesel? And the 400bhp 550d can't be engineered for RHD, I was told anyway.

I've driven the X5 50d, (and my old 6-series had a 380bhp diesel), they make formidable mile-munchers.