RE: Tesla Model Y released
Discussion
I don’t get the level of polarisation of views, ICE vs electric.
EV’s will work for lots of people, but not all.
I’ve had a Tesla and everything from a v8 esprit to my current Up Gti.
I love fun, interesting cars...i figured that was what pistonheads was for!?
Without doubt Musk has massively influenced the entire industry even if Tesla ultimately fails. Audi / Merc / Porsche will have better build quality, but Tesla’s vertical integration and charging infrastructure are massive advantages.
Whatever happens it’s going to be interesting and fun to watch.
EV’s will work for lots of people, but not all.
I’ve had a Tesla and everything from a v8 esprit to my current Up Gti.
I love fun, interesting cars...i figured that was what pistonheads was for!?
Without doubt Musk has massively influenced the entire industry even if Tesla ultimately fails. Audi / Merc / Porsche will have better build quality, but Tesla’s vertical integration and charging infrastructure are massive advantages.
Whatever happens it’s going to be interesting and fun to watch.
Jon_S_Rally said:
What might help them is if they drop all this sub-5 second 0-60 business to impress people. Make a Golf-sized EV that does 0-60 in 8-10 seconds, looks like a normal car, is built as well as a normal car, can do 5-600 miles between charges. and is priced like a normal car. That's the EV the general market actually needs, not something with "ludicrous" mode for children in adult bodies that have money to burn.
Thats not how EVs work. To get range you need an efficient car with a large battery. A large battery can give you range and a lot of power, electric motors are small light and relatively cheap so why not put in motors that can go fast, theres little point in not doing it.
Range means a large battery which means cost and weight for now, but we are still only on the 3rd gen of tesla cars and it has 300 miles of range, charges at 250kwh and weighs (for a 3) around 1850kg so about 200 more than the equivalence ice, all of this will only improve over time.
I'm sure once the Pickup truck is done tesla will look to move into smaller hatchbacks etc but it is a long way down the road for them.
AshD said:
I don’t get the level of polarisation of views, ICE vs electric.
EV’s will work for lots of people, but not all.
I’ve had a Tesla and everything from a v8 esprit to my current Up Gti.
I love fun, interesting cars...i figured that was what pistonheads was for!?
Without doubt Musk has massively influenced the entire industry even if Tesla ultimately fails. Audi / Merc / Porsche will have better build quality, but Tesla’s vertical integration and charging infrastructure are massive advantages.
Whatever happens it’s going to be interesting and fun to watch.
Definitely will be interesting - not a fan of the pictures of this new model, but would like one of the others. EV’s will work for lots of people, but not all.
I’ve had a Tesla and everything from a v8 esprit to my current Up Gti.
I love fun, interesting cars...i figured that was what pistonheads was for!?
Without doubt Musk has massively influenced the entire industry even if Tesla ultimately fails. Audi / Merc / Porsche will have better build quality, but Tesla’s vertical integration and charging infrastructure are massive advantages.
Whatever happens it’s going to be interesting and fun to watch.
I suspect in a few years my cars won’t be allowed in the city any longer and with improvements in battery density (or whatever it is called), the cars will by that time hopefully be a real option for most driving (even higher speeds). Looking forward to what Porsche brings to market.
I like all cars that add something new and are not completely generic
RobDickinson said:
Typical retarded 1970s views of motoring and electric cars shown by the cretins of PH who all seem to drive a minimum of 1000 miles every single day whilst towing a caravan at 120 mph pissing into bottles because real company directors don't stop.
Say goodbye to your hydrocarbon polluting dinosaurs, they've a handful of years left.
Kindly toddle off back to the muppets over at electrek thank you very much, you will find the discussion on the model 3 high top much more to your tastes.Say goodbye to your hydrocarbon polluting dinosaurs, they've a handful of years left.
Talksteer said:
However the really big issue is that all the Tesla competitors are avoiding "production hell" by setting much lower production goals generally in the 10,000s at about the same time as Tesla will be delivering 1,000,000 premium cars.
One million? Really? I'm not sure they can afford to lose that much money. But I'd be interested to see the first premium car they eventually make - if it ever happens.Cold said:
One million? Really? I'm not sure they can afford to lose that much money. But I'd be interested to see the first premium car they eventually make - if it ever happens.
They'll be at 500k rates end of this year and 1m by 2021, the competition is already choking on their dust.1876: “The Americans have need of the telephone, but we do not. We have plenty of messenger boys.” — William Preece, British Post Office.
1876: “This ‘telephone’ has too many shortcomings to be seriously considered as a means of communication.” — William Orton, President of Western Union.
1889: “Fooling around with alternating current (AC) is just a waste of time. Nobody will use it, ever.” — Thomas Edison
1903: “The horse is here to stay but the automobile is only a novelty – a fad.” — President of the Michigan Savings Bank advising Henry Ford’s lawyer, Horace Rackham, not to invest in the Ford Motor Company.
1876: “This ‘telephone’ has too many shortcomings to be seriously considered as a means of communication.” — William Orton, President of Western Union.
1889: “Fooling around with alternating current (AC) is just a waste of time. Nobody will use it, ever.” — Thomas Edison
1903: “The horse is here to stay but the automobile is only a novelty – a fad.” — President of the Michigan Savings Bank advising Henry Ford’s lawyer, Horace Rackham, not to invest in the Ford Motor Company.
Jon_S_Rally said:
I wish people would stop pretending that this and the Model X are SUVs. How much ground clearance does it have exactly? Can it tow a caravan? 15-20 years ago, these would be identified as exactly what they are - people carriers/MPVs. It's just that SUV sounds more glamorous.
What might help them is if they drop all this sub-5 second 0-60 business to impress people. Make a Golf-sized EV that does 0-60 in 8-10 seconds, looks like a normal car, is built as well as a normal car, can do 5-600 miles between charges. and is priced like a normal car. That's the EV the general market actually needs, not something with "ludicrous" mode for children in adult bodies that have money to burn.
Range and performance go hand in hand on electric cars, once you fit a 75-150 KWh battery the cost to have ridiculous performance is actually pretty low in the region of £1000 in a larger motor and inverter. A more powerful electric car is not less efficient like a large engined ICE car is.What might help them is if they drop all this sub-5 second 0-60 business to impress people. Make a Golf-sized EV that does 0-60 in 8-10 seconds, looks like a normal car, is built as well as a normal car, can do 5-600 miles between charges. and is priced like a normal car. That's the EV the general market actually needs, not something with "ludicrous" mode for children in adult bodies that have money to burn.
If they could get 5-600 miles out I'm sure they would but the value of doing so is not really there, in the US (never mind the UK) the average car travels over 300 miles on less than 1% of the days it is used.
Finally the Model 3 and Y will be able to charge at 250KW from the V3 supercharger, this means that adding 100 miles of range will take 6 minutes. How inconvenient is a 6 minute charge after 5 hours of driving?
ICE vs EV.....lacking so much foresight.
When Karl Benz built the first horseless carriage, did he despair because it was slower than a horse, constantly broke down, needed maintenance every few kilometers and required fuel when there were no fuel stations in the world?
Do people who travel thousands of kilometers a week at high speed really not care about the impact they have on the planet and then have the audacity to go onto forums and highlight to others how lacking EV’s are? Do you really feel so insecure that you need to leave comments that might cause someone who would otherwise have bought an EV to not do so?
Most early adopters of EV are not idiots, they made a conscious choice to support something even if it means some personal sacrifice.
I am not a tree hugger, 2 car family and the second one is an Evoque (shock, horror ) which I am happy to drive without guilt keeping me up at night so I am not trying to shame anyone. Just really tired of pointless arguments about range and charge times. I have owned an EV for a year now and I have not spent a second waiting for it to charge, accept that there are millions of us who do not drive long distance and enjoy your ICE.
Hopefully the world doesn’t change too quickly because I still aspire to having an AC Cobra with a thundering V8 in my garage one day and knowing that any performance Tesla will outrun me effortlessly while being way more practical will not curb my enjoyment in the least.
When Karl Benz built the first horseless carriage, did he despair because it was slower than a horse, constantly broke down, needed maintenance every few kilometers and required fuel when there were no fuel stations in the world?
Do people who travel thousands of kilometers a week at high speed really not care about the impact they have on the planet and then have the audacity to go onto forums and highlight to others how lacking EV’s are? Do you really feel so insecure that you need to leave comments that might cause someone who would otherwise have bought an EV to not do so?
Most early adopters of EV are not idiots, they made a conscious choice to support something even if it means some personal sacrifice.
I am not a tree hugger, 2 car family and the second one is an Evoque (shock, horror ) which I am happy to drive without guilt keeping me up at night so I am not trying to shame anyone. Just really tired of pointless arguments about range and charge times. I have owned an EV for a year now and I have not spent a second waiting for it to charge, accept that there are millions of us who do not drive long distance and enjoy your ICE.
Hopefully the world doesn’t change too quickly because I still aspire to having an AC Cobra with a thundering V8 in my garage one day and knowing that any performance Tesla will outrun me effortlessly while being way more practical will not curb my enjoyment in the least.
MDL111 said:
Agreed - drove 930km last night and about 3,500km in the last week. V12 uses a lot of petrol, but at least it is capable of doing those trips while a Tesla would not be.
For people who only do short distances or have multiple daily type cars they might be an interesting option, but not really suitable for many people yet.
On topic - that one looks worse to my eyes than the other ones launched so far
Or rather, it suitable for the majority people, i.e this that don't regularly do journeys of over 300 miles. I'd guess that's 95% of the population, maybe more.For people who only do short distances or have multiple daily type cars they might be an interesting option, but not really suitable for many people yet.
On topic - that one looks worse to my eyes than the other ones launched so far
Baldchap said:
Yet those of us who own them seem to manage just fine. In fact, a full 'tank' every morning is actually more convenient than having to go to a petrol station intermittently.
A 200 mile charge is 20 minutes. That's a real world 450 miles with a 20 minute break.
Which Mr V12 probably couldn't manage A 200 mile charge is 20 minutes. That's a real world 450 miles with a 20 minute break.
Edited by Baldchap on Friday 15th March 16:50
st4 said:
04helipilot said:
V3 supercharging rolling out now with charge rates of up to 75mile in 5 minutes
This is off the pace compared to a normal car but not so off the pace to rule one out. I reckon in another 10yrs with more chargers these cars could be viable for most British motorists . With an EV, you park, plug in and your 5 mins is spent having the same piss, and the additional 10-15 mins persuading your kids that they don't need another magazine/buying food/getting a drink/perving at the hen party/etc adds another 150 miles.
Add in that of the minute number of people that regularly drive 300+ miles, few do it without at least one 20-30min break.
The EV might not be the optimum only car for a family, but as a second car, or prime car supplemented by a 2nd ICE the time is now, and getting ever more valid.
Jon_S_Rally said:
Ares said:
Repeat after me....
SUVs are not 4x4s/off-roaders....SUVs are not 4x4s/off-roaders....SUVs are not 4x4s/off-roaders....SUVs are not 4x4s/off-roaders....SUVs are not 4x4s/off-roaders....etc
SUVs - Sports Utility Vehicles are higher cars that have an element of design about them (subjective, naturally) and a higher seating position and higher roofline than MPV, which are minvans/minibuses
I'm aware of the differences between an SUV and a traditional 4x4 but, apart from this and the Model X, which SUVs are sold without some off-road pretense? I am struggling to think of one. Every definition I've seen of an SUV suggests it has some off-road capability, or at least looks like it does. The two Tesla "SUVs" do not.SUVs are not 4x4s/off-roaders....SUVs are not 4x4s/off-roaders....SUVs are not 4x4s/off-roaders....SUVs are not 4x4s/off-roaders....SUVs are not 4x4s/off-roaders....etc
SUVs - Sports Utility Vehicles are higher cars that have an element of design about them (subjective, naturally) and a higher seating position and higher roofline than MPV, which are minvans/minibuses
Some of the "stylish" SUVs are pushing the boundaries with big wheels and deep bumpers, but you can still see the off-road appearance. This looks like a saloon car with a high roof. Mostly because that's what it is.
Jon_S_Rally said:
Also, Tesla are certainly not the only ones guilty of this, but they are probably the ones embracing it the most - when is someone going to admit that massive, distracting touchscreens in cars are utterly idiotic.
Hear, hear. Anything that you have to look at to operate in a car is a disaster waiting to happen.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff