Glad I had my Range Rover on the beach today...
Discussion
JimSuperSix said:
lyonspride is correct - look how people treat hire cars, then add that element of hire into a normal car "purchase", combined with a much lower initial outlay and the prospect of just giving it back after 3 years and not having to worry about anything that may go wrong, and the result is that people treat their cars with a lot less care and mechanical sympathy than if they were in it for the long term. It's just human nature. I've purchased a car from new and it was treated with kid-gloves compared to all the older cars I've purchased for much lower amounts.
And before we get the usual "well i've pcped car X and wash and wax it down to the grommets every 4 hours..." , I am speaking in general terms, based on my observations of how people treat their cars day to day, combined with the age of such cars and given that a very high percentage of 1 to 2 year old cars were bought on finance (86.5% in 2017 acc. to Reuters).
"Fastest car in the world is a hire car"And before we get the usual "well i've pcped car X and wash and wax it down to the grommets every 4 hours..." , I am speaking in general terms, based on my observations of how people treat their cars day to day, combined with the age of such cars and given that a very high percentage of 1 to 2 year old cars were bought on finance (86.5% in 2017 acc. to Reuters).
Unfortunately these days people are so used to not actually owning their car, that they've forgotten how they used to treat their cars when they did.
I've certainly noticed more aggressive (and passive aggressive) driving on the roads since pcp/lease/finance became common place.
lyonspride said:
JimSuperSix said:
lyonspride is correct - look how people treat hire cars, then add that element of hire into a normal car "purchase", combined with a much lower initial outlay and the prospect of just giving it back after 3 years and not having to worry about anything that may go wrong, and the result is that people treat their cars with a lot less care and mechanical sympathy than if they were in it for the long term. It's just human nature. I've purchased a car from new and it was treated with kid-gloves compared to all the older cars I've purchased for much lower amounts.
And before we get the usual "well i've pcped car X and wash and wax it down to the grommets every 4 hours..." , I am speaking in general terms, based on my observations of how people treat their cars day to day, combined with the age of such cars and given that a very high percentage of 1 to 2 year old cars were bought on finance (86.5% in 2017 acc. to Reuters).
"Fastest car in the world is a hire car"And before we get the usual "well i've pcped car X and wash and wax it down to the grommets every 4 hours..." , I am speaking in general terms, based on my observations of how people treat their cars day to day, combined with the age of such cars and given that a very high percentage of 1 to 2 year old cars were bought on finance (86.5% in 2017 acc. to Reuters).
Unfortunately these days people are so used to not actually owning their car, that they've forgotten how they used to treat their cars when they did.
I've certainly noticed more aggressive (and passive aggressive) driving on the roads since pcp/lease/finance became common place.
ks as per usual, the vast majority of people treat hire cars with respect, if only because the hire company have their credit card details, as for the comment that people in newer cars are more aggressive, completely laughable, mind you,ain't you the guy who was too afraid to ask his neighbour for a parcel? No wonder you see the world strangely.wolfracesonic said:
Serious question, if somebody who knew what they were doing was behind the wheel, could it have been driven out using one of the specific modes for that kind of terrain, or are gravel beaches some kind of black hole for 4x4s? Oh, and PCP stuff as well.
A Defender with big fat tyres will have no problem on sand unless seriously loaded up.The only reason I won't buy a car on PCP is that I would be worried about every scratch, scuff, ding or dent. I would be treating it with such kid gloves that there would be no joy in driving it.
Maybe other people don't think like that and constantly claim on their insurance, as surely the car needs to be given back in very good condition.
Might explain why insurance keeps getting more and more expensive.
I feel completely enlightened and free, now that I only own my BMW, that I bought in 1998, and my much battered Vespa, that was returned to me by the police after a year in the hands of some armed scrote, to not worry about my vehicles and that they owe me nothing.
Shame the expanded upcoming London ULEZ will mean dumping the BMW unless I move out.
Maybe other people don't think like that and constantly claim on their insurance, as surely the car needs to be given back in very good condition.
Might explain why insurance keeps getting more and more expensive.
I feel completely enlightened and free, now that I only own my BMW, that I bought in 1998, and my much battered Vespa, that was returned to me by the police after a year in the hands of some armed scrote, to not worry about my vehicles and that they owe me nothing.
Shame the expanded upcoming London ULEZ will mean dumping the BMW unless I move out.
croyde said:
The only reason I won't buy a car on PCP is that I would be worried about every scratch, scuff, ding or dent. I would be treating it with such kid gloves that there would be no joy in driving it.
Maybe other people don't think like that and constantly claim on their insurance, as surely the car needs to be given back in very good condition.
Might explain why insurance keeps getting more and more expensive.
I feel completely enlightened and free, now that I only own my BMW, that I bought in 1998, and my much battered Vespa, that was returned to me by the police after a year in the hands of some armed scrote, to not worry about my vehicles and that they owe me nothing.
Shame the expanded upcoming London ULEZ will mean dumping the BMW unless I move out.
You think people claim off their insurance for a scratch or scuff? Maybe other people don't think like that and constantly claim on their insurance, as surely the car needs to be given back in very good condition.
Might explain why insurance keeps getting more and more expensive.
I feel completely enlightened and free, now that I only own my BMW, that I bought in 1998, and my much battered Vespa, that was returned to me by the police after a year in the hands of some armed scrote, to not worry about my vehicles and that they owe me nothing.
Shame the expanded upcoming London ULEZ will mean dumping the BMW unless I move out.
Most people with PCP/ lease cars and half a brain drive and look after the car as any normal person would, out of all of the people I know that have had deals, none ‘baby’ their car any more than their previously owned one and nobody has seen more than a small charge upon return, even the car used to transport a dog every day went back without penalty after a quick wash - there is fair wear and tear you know.
No disrespect but you may be stuck in 1998 a little.
wolfracesonic said:
Serious question, if somebody who knew what they were doing was behind the wheel, could it have been driven out using one of the specific modes for that kind of terrain, or are gravel beaches some kind of black hole for 4x4s? Oh, and PCP stuff as well.
A serious reply (seemingly missing from this argument-fest, of course). Loose pebbles are basically like glass resting on glass. The wheels turn, they spin the pebbles under them, and you start displacing them, sinking. You have to rely on squishing enough pebbles that they grip enough of each other to not all move as a whole. As soon as you sink to axle depth you wheels are doing nothing. You are grounded on basically, stone.The specific modes on modern 4x4s essentially control a mixture of individual wheel traction control (braking) and also how much the diff/s lock up. They can't do much more than that. If an axle is grounded it can do no more than send power to other wheels. If a wheel has no traction it's the same thing. It'll apply the brake to that wheel, driving it's opposite partner.
In my disco 3 , on wet mud (grass car parking , then it rained) on road tyres, all the modes in the world wouldn't get it moving. I had to let a load of pressure out of the tyres to get out. The various modes made no difference, as I had no grip. Same with a beached car. No grip means you are not going anywhere.
I'll add that I'm not an expert , though I did compete off-road casually when I was younger. The principals are good , though I expect someone to tear it all apart a few posts later :-)
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 24th April 08:32
Rick1.8t said:
You think people claim off their insurance for a scratch or scuff?
Most people with PCP/ lease cars and half a brain drive and look after the car as any normal person would, out of all of the people I know that have had deals, none ‘baby’ their car any more than their previously owned one and nobody has seen more than a small charge upon return, even the car used to transport a dog every day went back without penalty after a quick wash - there is fair wear and tear you know.
No disrespect but you may be stuck in 1998 a little.
Most people with PCP/ lease cars and half a brain drive and look after the car as any normal person would, out of all of the people I know that have had deals, none ‘baby’ their car any more than their previously owned one and nobody has seen more than a small charge upon return, even the car used to transport a dog every day went back without penalty after a quick wash - there is fair wear and tear you know.
No disrespect but you may be stuck in 1998 a little.
non taken. Wish I was 
Maybe it's where I live but constant parking dings and keyings have put me off having something nice.
I did 2 years in leafy Surrey with my brand new Mustang GT. Drove it like I stole it but it was immaculate apart from a couple of alloy scuffs when I sold it prior to moving back to London.
A year or so later and even my battered BMW has been keyed twice and received a few knocks from other people's cars.
I'll stick to shedding thanks very much.
Rawwr said:
lyonspride said:
I've certainly noticed more aggressive (and passive aggressive) driving on the roads since pcp/lease/finance became common place.
And I've noticed more aggressive driving on the roads ever since Marathon changed its name to Snickers.berlintaxi said:
Complete bks as per usual, the vast majority of people treat hire cars with respect,
Just as if they'd worked for a decade to be able to afford one, naturally. I'm not saying people use hire cars mainly for ram raiding, but it's ludicrous to suggest anyone would share the same sense of self-satisfaction owning a hire car as owning a car they'd worked hard to afford, searched for, specced up, washed every Sunday morning etc etc.ks as per usual, the vast majority of people treat hire cars with respect,
wolfracesonic said:
Serious question, if somebody who knew what they were doing was behind the wheel, could it have been driven out using one of the specific modes for that kind of terrain, or are gravel beaches some kind of black hole for 4x4s? Oh, and PCP stuff as well.
Serious answer time.Yes, with someone with half a brain, it would be fine on that surface.
The most likely issue for that driver was lack of momentum to get up and over the hill, second issue was not reversing back as soon as he had lost forward momentum. As every attempt after that, was only going to dig the car into the ground instead of going forward.
The theory with that is, reversing back to suitable hard ground, get out and re-evaluate how to go forward, you've already driven over the ground so it can take the car, reversing may be 5m, 10, 50m or more till you find a safe spot.
When you buy a new or approved used LR, you get a free half day experience to be taught how to use the off road tech and some basic off road driving skills, it's done with stock cars on the tyres all cars are sold with so people can see what they can do with stock tyres, and it means you don't chew up the ground like AT/MT tyres do.
We don't know the lead up, but it could be guessed, he was in high range, in normal setting for the TR and going slowly up the hill.
With some momentum, he would have had the speed to clear it, low range would have helped and having the TR in either GGS or AUTO mode, would have been enough.
Or, finding another route to their destination, it may have been flatter to the right of the picture so they could have went that way.
of course having 22" wheels with the stock Continental Cross Contact LX tyres on, isn't ideal.
Not sure how what method of paying for the car, has to do with how it's treated.
I know plenty of treat their cars terribly, regardless of how they are paid for, and i know plenty of treat their cars well regardless.
FFS we all love cars, who cares how someone gets themselves behind the wheel as long as it's legal. This PCP snobbery is pathetic and repeatedly bringing it up is massively tedious so how about those that have an issue with it create their own little bhfest somewhere and leave other threads alone!
hfest somewhere and leave other threads alone!popeyewhite said:
berlintaxi said:
Complete bks as per usual, the vast majority of people treat hire cars with respect,
Just as if they'd worked for a decade to be able to afford one, naturally. I'm not saying people use hire cars mainly for ram raiding, but it's ludicrous to suggest anyone would share the same sense of self-satisfaction owning a hire car as owning a car they'd worked hard to afford, searched for, specced up, washed every Sunday morning etc etc.ks as per usual, the vast majority of people treat hire cars with respect,SS2. said:
Some comical and sweeping generalisations going on in this thread.
Not everyone leases a vehicle simply because they can't afford to buy it outright.
And not everyone will abuse a lease car. But the fact is the more value attached to any object the more care it will get. As another poster has noted - it's just human nature.Not everyone leases a vehicle simply because they can't afford to buy it outright.
MDL111 said:
I actually treat hire cars better than my own cars for the simple reason that it is not my property and therefore should be treated like I would like other people to treat my stuff
And I don't specifically abuse any hire cars either, but if the choice was my P+R to get vandalised by some low lifes or a hire car, then I know which I'd choose.popeyewhite said:
SS2. said:
Some comical and sweeping generalisations going on in this thread.
Not everyone leases a vehicle simply because they can't afford to buy it outright.
And not everyone will abuse a lease car. But the fact is the more value attached to any object the more care it will get. As another poster has noted - it's just human nature.Not everyone leases a vehicle simply because they can't afford to buy it outright.
Yet more painting with a very wide brush.
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