RE: A ban on hands-free devices | PH Footnote
Discussion
Jimbo89 said:
How would they police it, when almost all new cars have built in hands free devices? Especially considering they can't even seem to police the current laws.
To me it would appear (watching too many 'real life' Police chase documentaries on TV) that the Police themselves very often using lapel mounted, personal radios while driving and they have to press a talk button, sometimes while in a pursuit, so are in effect driving one-handed.
Of course I understand they have additional professional driving courses, but how is a completely non-handsfree device like a push-to-talk radio any more acceptable or safe than a handsfree telephone system if we apply the same logic of distraction? Perhaps we should all have to pass an additional test to use a handsfee phone while driving, so we can emulate the Police's ability to do so (but clearly not one-handed)?
BTW, I never answer the phone when driving, not even handsfree. Nothing is so important that it can't wait until the next stopping point.
I absolutely agree with your point about these ridiculous touchscreens in vehicles.
They are there because it is much cheaper and easier for a manufacturer to roll out updated virtual dials/graphics/menus than it is for them to change physical hardware. So they can keep their cars fresher for longer and will be able to offer OTA updates as a service. It's great for the OEMs, but it's terrible for ergonomics. Well-designed and placed controls are far easier to operate than touchscreen buttons. And that's before we get onto the impact on your eyes of a massive glowing screen all the time.
Yours faithfully, Ned Ludd.
They are there because it is much cheaper and easier for a manufacturer to roll out updated virtual dials/graphics/menus than it is for them to change physical hardware. So they can keep their cars fresher for longer and will be able to offer OTA updates as a service. It's great for the OEMs, but it's terrible for ergonomics. Well-designed and placed controls are far easier to operate than touchscreen buttons. And that's before we get onto the impact on your eyes of a massive glowing screen all the time.
Yours faithfully, Ned Ludd.
jakesmith said:
Sebastian Tombs said:
Whilst I am really not a fan of all these touchscreens in cars, the point about mobile phone use isn't the screen, which no matter what size is only distracting for the moments it takes to complete the intended task. It's the fact that people engaged in phone conversations are significantly (and sometimes completely) distracted from the business of driving whether or not the phone is being held.
It's not the fact that their eyes aren't on the road, so much as the fact that their minds aren't.
Would you ban all talking in cars, ban children in cars? Adults can stop talking if circumstances require concentration on the road but that’s not always the case and isn’t with children. And audiobooks, talk radio? They require concentration It's not the fact that their eyes aren't on the road, so much as the fact that their minds aren't.
Kev_Mk3 said:
Hoofy said:
Could they deal with people facebooking while driving first??
and istagramming and snap chatting.Girl I work with has been done 3 times for the above and has now lost her licence due to it. She will do it again if required she does it all for the gram
that she got caught three times let alone once.
cookie1600 said:
To me it would appear (watching too many 'real life' Police chase documentaries on TV) that the Police themselves very often using lapel mounted, personal radios while driving and they have to press a talk button, sometimes while in a pursuit, so are in effect driving one-handed.
Of course I understand they have additional professional driving courses, but how is a completely non-handsfree device like a push-to-talk radio any more acceptable or safe than a handsfree telephone system if we apply the same logic of distraction? Perhaps we should all have to pass an additional test to use a handsfee phone while driving, so we can emulate the Police's ability to do so (but clearly not one-handed)?
BTW, I never answer the phone when driving, not even handsfree. Nothing is so important that it can't wait until the next stopping point.
Anybody is allowed to use a two way radio hand held while driving. The law simply says it must not be able to transmit on certain frequencies, which are the ones used by mobile phones.Of course I understand they have additional professional driving courses, but how is a completely non-handsfree device like a push-to-talk radio any more acceptable or safe than a handsfree telephone system if we apply the same logic of distraction? Perhaps we should all have to pass an additional test to use a handsfee phone while driving, so we can emulate the Police's ability to do so (but clearly not one-handed)?
BTW, I never answer the phone when driving, not even handsfree. Nothing is so important that it can't wait until the next stopping point.
I posted this reaction elsewhere:
I think the biggest issue is the boundaries of technology and how you define / establish what someone is doing...
- if I put my phone on a mount - this proposal would say that I can not use it as it would be a hands-free phone...
- but there is no suggestion of stopping drivers from using the in-car screen and controls
- my car has apple car play - so the phone is mirrored onto the screen... if I use the screen - am I using my phone? or am I using the car?
- it also has siri I can dictate a whatsapp message / I can have it read them to me - no hands involved at all - is that acceptable or not?
- if you want to ban every use of mobile telephony you therefore also have to ban the use of the car radio systems - does that then affect me in my older car which has a simple push-button radio? Does it also stop me using the screen in my sister's XC90 to change the air con temperature - either by pressing the screen / talking to the car to set a new temperature? - no difference in functionality to my using siri to make a phone call - the only difference is the length of conversation - so do you legislate for that?
there is no clarity / distinct lines between technology now - so while it is simple to legislate against hand-held use, it becomes very difficult to legislate against other uses...
I think the biggest issue is the boundaries of technology and how you define / establish what someone is doing...
- if I put my phone on a mount - this proposal would say that I can not use it as it would be a hands-free phone...
- but there is no suggestion of stopping drivers from using the in-car screen and controls
- my car has apple car play - so the phone is mirrored onto the screen... if I use the screen - am I using my phone? or am I using the car?
- it also has siri I can dictate a whatsapp message / I can have it read them to me - no hands involved at all - is that acceptable or not?
- if you want to ban every use of mobile telephony you therefore also have to ban the use of the car radio systems - does that then affect me in my older car which has a simple push-button radio? Does it also stop me using the screen in my sister's XC90 to change the air con temperature - either by pressing the screen / talking to the car to set a new temperature? - no difference in functionality to my using siri to make a phone call - the only difference is the length of conversation - so do you legislate for that?
there is no clarity / distinct lines between technology now - so while it is simple to legislate against hand-held use, it becomes very difficult to legislate against other uses...
Dr Jekyll said:
Anybody is allowed to use a two way radio hand held while driving. The law simply says it must not be able to transmit on certain frequencies, which are the ones used by mobile phones.
So how is that safer or any better than handsfree telephoning? Why is that not also against the law, in fact more so? Does that mean an amateur radio or CB operator can use a walkie-talkie on legal frequencies but they won't face prosecution, unlike someone using a similar sized phone? REALLY?I would say it's equally as distracting and entails taking off one hand from the wheel, so leaving someone not fully in control?
How do you even begin to enforce a "no talking on the phone" rule? Do the police pull everyone over who looks like they're talking? If you're singing along to a song or shouting at the radio, is that banned too? Where does that end?
What if you're with a passenger who's talking on bluetooth and you add to the conversation? Do you get 3 points?
What's the material difference between someone playing with an OEM system with a big touchscreen and swiping your phone screen to change the track on Spotify that's on a phone in a cradle?
Why is it not okay to have a phone in a cradle that's attached to an air vent and used for music, nav and phone calls, but it's okay to have a sat nav slap bang in the middle of the windscreen?
Not perfect, but the answer is surely to ban people using a handheld phone and ensure that 3rd party nav screens are mounted in a sensible place.
You can make all the rules you want, but without a way to enforce them it becomes pointless.
What if you're with a passenger who's talking on bluetooth and you add to the conversation? Do you get 3 points?
What's the material difference between someone playing with an OEM system with a big touchscreen and swiping your phone screen to change the track on Spotify that's on a phone in a cradle?
Why is it not okay to have a phone in a cradle that's attached to an air vent and used for music, nav and phone calls, but it's okay to have a sat nav slap bang in the middle of the windscreen?
Not perfect, but the answer is surely to ban people using a handheld phone and ensure that 3rd party nav screens are mounted in a sensible place.
You can make all the rules you want, but without a way to enforce them it becomes pointless.
cookie1600 said:
So how is that safer or any better than handsfree telephoning? Why is that not also against the law, in fact more so? Does that mean an amateur radio or CB operator can use a walkie-talkie on legal frequencies but they won't face prosecution, unlike someone using a similar sized phone? REALLY?
I would say it's equally as distracting and entails taking off one hand from the wheel, so leaving someone not fully in control?
Manual cars need one hand off the wheel to change gear...I would say it's equally as distracting and entails taking off one hand from the wheel, so leaving someone not fully in control?
But yes, being able to use a walkie-talkie seems rather an anomaly.
"Attempting to glance down at it to adjust the AC requires taking your eyes off the road for far longer than swiping to answer a call on a dash-mounted mobile."
C'mon ffs people have to "glance around" all over the place to operate and drive a car. Can't talk and drive, shouldn't be on the road imho. Banning hands free use smacks of yet more Nanny State BS.
TX.
C'mon ffs people have to "glance around" all over the place to operate and drive a car. Can't talk and drive, shouldn't be on the road imho. Banning hands free use smacks of yet more Nanny State BS.
TX.
cookie1600 said:
Dr Jekyll said:
Anybody is allowed to use a two way radio hand held while driving. The law simply says it must not be able to transmit on certain frequencies, which are the ones used by mobile phones.
So how is that safer or any better than handsfree telephoning? Why is that not also against the law, in fact more so? Does that mean an amateur radio or CB operator can use a walkie-talkie on legal frequencies but they won't face prosecution, unlike someone using a similar sized phone? REALLY?I would say it's equally as distracting and entails taking off one hand from the wheel, so leaving someone not fully in control?
abzmike said:
Manual cars need one hand off the wheel to change gear...
Absolutely, so does smoking a fag, scratching your head, changing the radio station, pressing the electric window button or picking your nose. So the argument for the law against using handheld phones must revolve around the distraction, not the control of the vehicle then. Fair enough.abzmike said:
But yes, being able to use a walkie-talkie seems rather an anomaly.
I'm gob smacked if that's the case and why hasn't it been made illegal like using a handheld phone? How many utility and emergency vehicles etc are still kitted out with two-way radios without handsfree? More to the point, why don't the Police have handsfree control of their radios? It seems you need a degree in computer technology to even know how to use a modern cars peripheral controls.
To then use the various touchscreens and menus whilst driving is a total distraction.
Has it yet been mentioned that you cannot eat or drink whilst driving your vehicle / but it’s quite alright to light a cigarette and smoke ..... nothing distracting about that ......
To then use the various touchscreens and menus whilst driving is a total distraction.
Has it yet been mentioned that you cannot eat or drink whilst driving your vehicle / but it’s quite alright to light a cigarette and smoke ..... nothing distracting about that ......
The cat is out of the bag - you cannot stop this and the smartphone is ever increasingly going to be an extension of your car.
I'd expect heavy lobbying from car manufacturers and smartphone vendors against this.
I certainly agree that the ever increasing use of touch screens needs to be reigned in, but the legislation acts like we are all still using Nokia 6210s
I'd expect heavy lobbying from car manufacturers and smartphone vendors against this.
I certainly agree that the ever increasing use of touch screens needs to be reigned in, but the legislation acts like we are all still using Nokia 6210s
Dr Jekyll said:
Yes, really.
Not doubting you, just amazed at the logic. In fact I've just read up on it:"The exception was created because so many government organisations and private companies (for example council departments and taxi companies) use them. Even allowing for this legal exemption, the police can still stop you if they believe your use of a two way radio is distracting you from your driving. This could result in a fixed penalty and points on your licence, or in extreme cases, even a disqualification. In short, use your two way radio with care when driving and try to minimise the amount you have to fiddle with volume controls, transmitter and tuning buttons."
https://www.dcs2way.co.uk/news/is-it-legal-to-use-...
So how an earth can you ban talking on a communications device, even a handsfree one when there is an exemption in place for something that could potentially be far more of an issue?
I think the sentence above contains the sensible answer to all this, if we had enough Police on the roads:
"the police can still stop you if they believe your use of a two way radio is distracting you from your driving"
DanielSan said:
This. So many modern cars have massive unintuitive screens in them. We test drove a Volvo XC40 a while ago and the system was awful.
I remember years ago riding a bike and I was fiddling with something and rode into a car pulling out of a driveway. Everything was ok, it wasn't high speed but the drive said that one day I would be driving and that if I was adjusting the stereo or looking at a control in a car, the outcome would be much worse. That comment has lived with me for 20 years and still reigns true with the modern infotainment more than ever.
This is just crap - I'm not in the slightest bit surprised to see 
s like Brake sticking their oar in.
The statistics show that deaths/injuries are up that have involved mobile phone use! No st, Sherlock? Perhaps the almost total absence of Police on our roads and any enforcement of the existing law might have something to do with that! The roads in many urban areas now are just total free-for-alls. It's a joke.
There is a law for driving distracted - it's Driving Without Due Care and Attention - try enforcing that one and the existing phone use law first you hand-wringing cretins.
I despair. God I'm glad I lived and drove in the dangerous fun-filled 80s and 90s, I had fun with cars, I stuck a note in the windscreen saying "tax in post", I chatted up women at work, I made offensive jokes, I drove fast on motorways and wasn't worried about it. fk these times! Kids now - trust me - it's st.
s like Brake sticking their oar in.The statistics show that deaths/injuries are up that have involved mobile phone use! No s
t, Sherlock? Perhaps the almost total absence of Police on our roads and any enforcement of the existing law might have something to do with that! The roads in many urban areas now are just total free-for-alls. It's a joke.There is a law for driving distracted - it's Driving Without Due Care and Attention - try enforcing that one and the existing phone use law first you hand-wringing cretins.
I despair. God I'm glad I lived and drove in the dangerous fun-filled 80s and 90s, I had fun with cars, I stuck a note in the windscreen saying "tax in post", I chatted up women at work, I made offensive jokes, I drove fast on motorways and wasn't worried about it. f
k these times! Kids now - trust me - it's st.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff