RE: Porsche Taycan | Official reveal!

RE: Porsche Taycan | Official reveal!

Author
Discussion

MrwReckless

123 posts

81 months

Tuesday 10th September 2019
quotequote all
BaronVonVaderham said:
Many thanks for the responses to my little rant, some were excellent, one was particularly daft.

To those that would suggest that BEVs are the ‘future’ and that any who disagree must be luddites, allow me to remind you that the electric car predates the ICE car by some years, and evs had very little development until now, as burning hydrocarbons was simply better and more efficient. All that’s changed now is the regulatory environment is now in favour of EVs as the climate is now the in vogue topic.

Secondly, once we have cracked micro-scale fusion reactors that can power a vehicle in effective perpetuity, then I will happily never touch another drop of VPower.

Until then, I will not bow to some Orwellian half truth that battery electric vehicles are in any way a solution for anything.
Some rather harshly delivered riposts, I'll try to be a bit more gentle in the delivery of my opinion.. That being said, the future certainly isn't fossil powered, that's for sure. The luddites can kick and scream all they want, they'll literally be walking into the future once the fossils run out, all for the sake of an archaic "no battery" mentality... Do they fear their women might lay claims to all batteries for their (quoting Clarkson) "crisis-inducing" machines?

And remind us all you like, but I feel you've cherry picked your comparison, as you could hardly compare the two technologies at the time, the ICE was vastly superior to their batteries back then. ICE will (has?) peak(ed) at 35-ish % efficiency whereas an electric motor is easily 3x that.

Your development argument I purely see akin to the DVD vs Laserdisk stage where porn simply found one medium more convenient at the time and that settled that. Fossil of course had a place to go at the time which seemed easier, more accessible and with little to no legislative restrictions, every economist and engineer will take the easy path. ICE has fallen into the diminishing return stage now IMO. Battery technology is a bit more complicated than suck squeeze bang blow but it still has places to go development wise. It takes time but nobody is forcing you to be the guinea pig. (Though you will eventually be forced to pay in some way, shape or form)

Your "better and more efficient" I suppose is open to some sort of interpretation and has many angles, but I'll leave it at that fossil wouldn't have been that much more efficient if it wasn't for all the petrol stations spread out across the nations for one. Even before BEV and ICE we could fuel our personal transport with grass from the side of the road so where do we draw the line and say stop? Why SHOULD we say stop?

If it was up to "the regulatory environmentalist government" they'd have your car and give you a cow, or maybe a horse, but since neither public nor hoof transport will win any votes they realise they have to give some leniency to personal transport. It gets very complicated here as we all live on a big planet with different climates, geography, population density and needs. But the tide is literally rising, as well as the temperatures and you might still have dry feet sitting on the fence, but for once the politicians have gotten off theirs and are actually doing something. You might not feel the grass being greener on the side they've landed on but it's certainly turning brown or drowning on the other.

I'll agree that personal transport is an easy target (poitically) for lowering emissions, other areas will inevitably be targets too, but it's a step in the right direction IMO. If the Taycan is the beginning of electric motoring then I don't feel it's is a loss or step down in any way, at all and for all. If anything, an increase in BEVs will just prolong the life of our precious fossil fuel for those who just won't have anything else.

Nuclear power is certainly a fairly clean way of producing (lots of) power, but it sounds to me that the energy will still be going to an electric powertrain? And I suspect when we do need a fill up we can all forget the convenience of filling up, either at home or at a petrol station. That and watch John Olivers story on Americas nuclear waste crisis and report back.

You've lost me at Orwellian half truth, either I'm not old enough, not clued up enough or not fluent enough, but I fear you're going to have to take a bow at some point as I don't see fossils lasting forever.

On a side note, if not BEVs, what is your proposition, implementable now or in the very near future, for a sustainable and eco-responsible motoring future?

Regards

Edited for spellings etc. by MrwReckless on Tuesday 10th September 22:17


Edited for spellings etc. (it's late OK!) by MrwReckless on Tuesday 10th September 22:18


Edited by MrwReckless on Tuesday 10th September 22:20

Dave Hedgehog

12,972 posts

166 months

Tuesday 10th September 2019
quotequote all
Taycan being built

https://youtu.be/A_cV4D2EX80

And to all the peeps here buying one

I hope your partners run off with amazon delivery person ... s the lot of you

RobDickinson

30,793 posts

216 months

Wednesday 11th September 2019
quotequote all
And as if by magic tesla have a slot for a ring timed run.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/amp289991...

RacerMike

2,820 posts

173 months

Wednesday 11th September 2019
quotequote all
RobDickinson said:
And as if by magic tesla have a slot for a ring timed run.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/amp289991...
I really can’t see them getting close to the Porsche. A model S de-rates after about 6 corners, and even if they’ve fixed that, 7:42 is a phenomenal time for any car. To put it into perspective, the Taycan’s time is faster than a 997 GT3.

I see one has already been spied with Cup 2’s and a gurney flap, but honestly, this’ll be the least of their worries. Thermal management will basically kill the thing within less than half a lap.

RobDickinson

30,793 posts

216 months

Thursday 12th September 2019
quotequote all
RacerMike said:
I really can’t see them getting close to the Porsche. A model S de-rates after about 6 corners, and even if they’ve fixed that, 7:42 is a phenomenal time for any car. To put it into perspective, the Taycan’s time is faster than a 997 GT3.

I see one has already been spied with Cup 2’s and a gurney flap, but honestly, this’ll be the least of their worries. Thermal management will basically kill the thing within less than half a lap.
that was an independent p85 from 4 years ago. remember, when Porsche didnt have an ev.... the p100D raven has cooler motors and a new battery pack. Why do people think a tesla form 4 years ago is representative of a tesla today?

I'm not sure it will beet the Taycan now still ( taycan looks a lot more track focused) but ffs tesla dont stand still.


The carbon ceramic brakes are also a huge expensive upgrade on the turbo

isaldiri

11,028 posts

130 months

Thursday 12th September 2019
quotequote all
RacerMike said:
I really can’t see them getting close to the Porsche. A model S de-rates after about 6 corners, and even if they’ve fixed that, 7:42 is a phenomenal time for any car. To put it into perspective, the Taycan’s time is faster than a 997 GT3.

I see one has already been spied with Cup 2’s and a gurney flap, but honestly, this’ll be the least of their worries. Thermal management will basically kill the thing within less than half a lap.
Cup2 Rs according to Sport Auto, not merely Cup2s.... rofl

RobDickinson

30,793 posts

216 months

Thursday 12th September 2019
quotequote all
And the laguna seca model s is a new plaid model with drive train changes etc.

Obv put together just this week wink

Dave Hedgehog

12,972 posts

166 months

Thursday 12th September 2019
quotequote all

E65Ross

26,333 posts

174 months

Thursday 12th September 2019
quotequote all
It wouldn't surprise me if they did beat it. Although I'm not confident it will. Clearly they're taking it seriously by putting some rather sticky rubber on it. Does anyone know what tyres the Taycan had?

DonkeyApple

40,069 posts

131 months

Thursday 12th September 2019
quotequote all
RacerMike said:
I really can’t see them getting close to the Porsche. A model S de-rates after about 6 corners, and even if they’ve fixed that, 7:42 is a phenomenal time for any car. To put it into perspective, the Taycan’s time is faster than a 997 GT3.

I see one has already been spied with Cup 2’s and a gurney flap, but honestly, this’ll be the least of their worries. Thermal management will basically kill the thing within less than half a lap.
They’ve just beaten the record at Leguna Seca. Not that it is technically a record as it was not verified. It was just one of their development drivers and a chap with a stopwatch.

They used the new power train so that’s probably what is behind this little jaunt to Germany which is going to be done under the same conditions of not being official.

They have no real downside and it’s a smart enough move. If the new drivetrain does the same as the old and the car’s nose still wants to hurtle into the trees then they were just there as tourists but if they do get a better time from just turning up on the day and driving round like holiday makers then it will be a very major coup. The scenario is that they don’t even have to get all that close to score a win as the fact that they aren’t running it as a serious factory event gives them a big buffer in reality.

Musk might be a dishonest, insecure, unpleasant little chappie but he isn’t an idiot. Most super wealthy are driven by deep seated failings as human beings which they successfully channel to reach great heights. It seems logical that they know where their car is quicker than the Taycan and where it isn’t. I suspect that it’s straights v corners. He must feel confident that he can get at least relatively close but the risk is easily worth it for the headlines and even the chance of beating the kings of the track.

He could have just phoned Rob Dennis and asked him to email over a winning time but good for him for providing a real show.

Dave Hedgehog

12,972 posts

166 months

Thursday 12th September 2019
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
They’ve just beaten the record at Leguna Seca. Not that it is technically a record as it was not verified. It was just one of their development drivers and a chap with a stopwatch.
well in car filming / timing so a bit more advanced than a stop watch, and not a pro driver

also has Plaid powertrain and chassis prototype

https://www.instagram.com/p/B2SuaMQh0jI/?utm_sourc...


DonkeyApple

40,069 posts

131 months

Thursday 12th September 2019
quotequote all
Dave Hedgehog said:
DonkeyApple said:
They’ve just beaten the record at Leguna Seca. Not that it is technically a record as it was not verified. It was just one of their development drivers and a chap with a stopwatch.
well in car filming / timing so a bit more advanced than a stop watch, and not a pro driver

also has Plaid powertrain and chassis prototype

https://www.instagram.com/p/B2SuaMQh0jI/?utm_sourc...
Indeed. All it takes is some data crunching to know whether you’re going to make an arse of your brand by turning up at the Ring. The results are going to be interesting and almost certain to kick off a spate of Tw4ttering between the two groups of loons.

RacerMike

2,820 posts

173 months

Thursday 12th September 2019
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
RacerMike said:
I really can’t see them getting close to the Porsche. A model S de-rates after about 6 corners, and even if they’ve fixed that, 7:42 is a phenomenal time for any car. To put it into perspective, the Taycan’s time is faster than a 997 GT3.

I see one has already been spied with Cup 2’s and a gurney flap, but honestly, this’ll be the least of their worries. Thermal management will basically kill the thing within less than half a lap.
They’ve just beaten the record at Leguna Seca. Not that it is technically a record as it was not verified. It was just one of their development drivers and a chap with a stopwatch.

They used the new power train so that’s probably what is behind this little jaunt to Germany which is going to be done under the same conditions of not being official.

They have no real downside and it’s a smart enough move. If the new drivetrain does the same as the old and the car’s nose still wants to hurtle into the trees then they were just there as tourists but if they do get a better time from just turning up on the day and driving round like holiday makers then it will be a very major coup. The scenario is that they don’t even have to get all that close to score a win as the fact that they aren’t running it as a serious factory event gives them a big buffer in reality.
They're running in proper industry pool and sound to have booked a proper exclusive to try and do a time now as well. So it's as good an opportunity as Porsche had. I've got some colleagues there next week so it'll be interesting to see what happens.

Even if the powertrain doesn't de-rate, then it's going to be a monumental effort to get close to 7:42. The Laguna Seca time is 3s off a 997 GT3 which is slower than the Taycan around the 'Ring. And a 'pro' driver (whatever that really means as the big names aren't going to be significantly quicker than the guy driving the car around Laguna) isn't going to find 3s...


Edited by RacerMike on Thursday 12th September 10:09

DonkeyApple

40,069 posts

131 months

Thursday 12th September 2019
quotequote all
Ron Dennis got a car to do sub 7 just with the power of his mind. Imagine what a full time fantasist and snake oil vendor will achieve. wink