Honest John and Left Foot Braking?

Honest John and Left Foot Braking?

Author
Discussion

DoubleD

9,262 posts

54 months

Wednesday 9th October
quotequote all
NewUsername said:
As I said above rfb is the de facto norm, you have no data\studies to prove deviating from the norm will allow you to brake more safely

I'm sure he recommends it to novices who've never tried it lololol, if you're skilled at it then yes i'd recommend using it too, for its intended purpose though, not for braking an auto that wont let you throttle and brake simultaneously anyway.

So i'll take that over your hastily googled 'advice' thanks
You have no data\studies to prove that it won't though.

When you were a consultant going into struggling businesses you would have often heard people say that they do something a particular way because

"we've always done it that way"

NewUsername

245 posts

2 months

Wednesday 9th October
quotequote all
JimSuperSix said:
NewUsername said:
if you're skilled at it then yes i'd recommend using it too
Finally, progress smile
No different to what I said at the start, you haven’t quoted “for it’s intended purpose” either....

NewUsername

245 posts

2 months

Wednesday 9th October
quotequote all
DoubleD said:
NewUsername said:
As I said above rfb is the de facto norm, you have no data\studies to prove deviating from the norm will allow you to brake more safely

I'm sure he recommends it to novices who've never tried it lololol, if you're skilled at it then yes i'd recommend using it too, for its intended purpose though, not for braking an auto that wont let you throttle and brake simultaneously anyway.

So i'll take that over your hastily googled 'advice' thanks
You have no data\studies to prove that it won't though.

When you were a consultant going into struggling businesses you would have often heard people say that they do something a particular way because

"we've always done it that way"
Absolutely, and they wouldn’t change unless I could demonstrate a reason to ;-)

DoubleD

9,262 posts

54 months

Wednesday 9th October
quotequote all
NewUsername said:
DoubleD said:
NewUsername said:
As I said above rfb is the de facto norm, you have no data\studies to prove deviating from the norm will allow you to brake more safely

I'm sure he recommends it to novices who've never tried it lololol, if you're skilled at it then yes i'd recommend using it too, for its intended purpose though, not for braking an auto that wont let you throttle and brake simultaneously anyway.

So i'll take that over your hastily googled 'advice' thanks
You have no data\studies to prove that it won't though.

When you were a consultant going into struggling businesses you would have often heard people say that they do something a particular way because

"we've always done it that way"
Absolutely, and they wouldn’t change unless I could demonstrate a reason to ;-)
Can you demonstrate a reason not to?

NewUsername

245 posts

2 months

Wednesday 9th October
quotequote all
DoubleD said:
NewUsername said:
DoubleD said:
NewUsername said:
As I said above rfb is the de facto norm, you have no data\studies to prove deviating from the norm will allow you to brake more safely

I'm sure he recommends it to novices who've never tried it lololol, if you're skilled at it then yes i'd recommend using it too, for its intended purpose though, not for braking an auto that wont let you throttle and brake simultaneously anyway.

So i'll take that over your hastily googled 'advice' thanks
You have no data\studies to prove that it won't though.

When you were a consultant going into struggling businesses you would have often heard people say that they do something a particular way because

"we've always done it that way"
Absolutely, and they wouldn’t change unless I could demonstrate a reason to ;-)
Can you demonstrate a reason not to?
No proven benefit for a start.

Crikey this is hard work.

DoubleD

9,262 posts

54 months

Wednesday 9th October
quotequote all
NewUsername said:
DoubleD said:
NewUsername said:
DoubleD said:
NewUsername said:
As I said above rfb is the de facto norm, you have no data\studies to prove deviating from the norm will allow you to brake more safely

I'm sure he recommends it to novices who've never tried it lololol, if you're skilled at it then yes i'd recommend using it too, for its intended purpose though, not for braking an auto that wont let you throttle and brake simultaneously anyway.

So i'll take that over your hastily googled 'advice' thanks
You have no data\studies to prove that it won't though.

When you were a consultant going into struggling businesses you would have often heard people say that they do something a particular way because

"we've always done it that way"
Absolutely, and they wouldn’t change unless I could demonstrate a reason to ;-)
Can you demonstrate a reason not to?
No proven benefit for a start.

Crikey this is hard work.
Have you got the data to show that there is no proven benefit?

NewUsername

245 posts

2 months

Wednesday 9th October
quotequote all
DoubleD said:
NewUsername said:
DoubleD said:
NewUsername said:
DoubleD said:
NewUsername said:
As I said above rfb is the de facto norm, you have no data\studies to prove deviating from the norm will allow you to brake more safely

I'm sure he recommends it to novices who've never tried it lololol, if you're skilled at it then yes i'd recommend using it too, for its intended purpose though, not for braking an auto that wont let you throttle and brake simultaneously anyway.

So i'll take that over your hastily googled 'advice' thanks
You have no data\studies to prove that it won't though.

When you were a consultant going into struggling businesses you would have often heard people say that they do something a particular way because

"we've always done it that way"
Absolutely, and they wouldn’t change unless I could demonstrate a reason to ;-)
Can you demonstrate a reason not to?
No proven benefit for a start.

Crikey this is hard work.
Have you got the data to show that there is no proven benefit?
If you can’t demonstrate a benefit, there is no benefit

DoubleD

9,262 posts

54 months

Wednesday 9th October
quotequote all
NewUsername said:
DoubleD said:
NewUsername said:
DoubleD said:
NewUsername said:
DoubleD said:
NewUsername said:
As I said above rfb is the de facto norm, you have no data\studies to prove deviating from the norm will allow you to brake more safely

I'm sure he recommends it to novices who've never tried it lololol, if you're skilled at it then yes i'd recommend using it too, for its intended purpose though, not for braking an auto that wont let you throttle and brake simultaneously anyway.

So i'll take that over your hastily googled 'advice' thanks
You have no data\studies to prove that it won't though.

When you were a consultant going into struggling businesses you would have often heard people say that they do something a particular way because

"we've always done it that way"
Absolutely, and they wouldn’t change unless I could demonstrate a reason to ;-)
Can you demonstrate a reason not to?
No proven benefit for a start.

Crikey this is hard work.
Have you got the data to show that there is no proven benefit?
If you can’t demonstrate a benefit, there is no benefit
So you have no data. Ok

NewUsername

245 posts

2 months

Wednesday 9th October
quotequote all
DoubleD said:
NewUsername said:
DoubleD said:
NewUsername said:
DoubleD said:
NewUsername said:
DoubleD said:
NewUsername said:
As I said above rfb is the de facto norm, you have no data\studies to prove deviating from the norm will allow you to brake more safely

I'm sure he recommends it to novices who've never tried it lololol, if you're skilled at it then yes i'd recommend using it too, for its intended purpose though, not for braking an auto that wont let you throttle and brake simultaneously anyway.

So i'll take that over your hastily googled 'advice' thanks
You have no data\studies to prove that it won't though.

When you were a consultant going into struggling businesses you would have often heard people say that they do something a particular way because

"we've always done it that way"
Absolutely, and they wouldn’t change unless I could demonstrate a reason to ;-)
Can you demonstrate a reason not to?
No proven benefit for a start.

Crikey this is hard work.
Have you got the data to show that there is no proven benefit?
If you can’t demonstrate a benefit, there is no benefit
So you have no data. Ok
But I do have data.

I have a norm position and I have the fact that no other position can be proven to be better.

That itself is data.


Try going into a business and asking them to change from the norm (usually incurring a cost) and tell them you can’t show them anything tangible to support that change. Best of luck

Cold

7,534 posts

36 months

Wednesday 9th October
quotequote all
Just popped out to Tesco to buy a few groceries. I drove there in my RRS which, as you know, is an auto. I used my left foot to brake.

The benefit here is that it will confound some users of PH so is therefore a positive and can be added to any data collection.

InitialDave

5,629 posts

65 months

Wednesday 9th October
quotequote all
JimSuperSix said:
I'd like to see how you can move your foot over faster than I can just start pressing the pedal....ah right, you can't can you. Ironically you have no data to back up your assertions either....

Seeing as the pro rally instructor recommends LFB even on the normal roads, I think I'll follow his advice in preference to yours thanks.
I wouldn't have my left foot in that position, ready to just strike the pedal, it's just not comfortable for me to drive like that other than for short periods, and the requirement to do that is the only way to make it a faster action to get on the brake than with your right foot.

I do use left foot braking for car balance stuff with FWD sometimes, but I don't see much value in it as a "default" method for driving an auto.

I think if you want to get most drivers doing something to help their stopping distances, better observation is probably the best return on your "investment", along with getting them to push the pedal like they actually mean it.

NewUsername

245 posts

2 months

Wednesday 9th October
quotequote all
InitialDave said:
JimSuperSix said:
I'd like to see how you can move your foot over faster than I can just start pressing the pedal....ah right, you can't can you. Ironically you have no data to back up your assertions either....

Seeing as the pro rally instructor recommends LFB even on the normal roads, I think I'll follow his advice in preference to yours thanks.
I wouldn't have my left foot in that position, ready to just strike the pedal, it's just not comfortable for me to drive like that other than for short periods, and the requirement to do that is the only way to make it a faster action to get on the brake than with your right foot.

I do use left foot braking for car balance stuff with FWD sometimes, but I don't see much value in it as a "default" method for driving an auto.

I think if you want to get most drivers doing something to help their stopping distances, better observation is probably the best return on your "investment", along with getting them to push the pedal like they actually mean it.
The guy in the video even says you couldn’t do it all the time but the poster ignored that bit!

Wholeheartedly agree better observation and tempering of speed are more likely to yield shorter stopping distances in an emergency

DickyC

34,367 posts

144 months

Wednesday 9th October
quotequote all
As I may have said once or twice, I brake manuals with my right foot and autos with my left foot. There is no benefit in doing it but I'm not look it for benefit. I'm not looking for advantage. I'm not doing it to be clever. I don't press both pedals at the same time. I don't cover the brake pedal all the time.

My name is Richard. I'm 65. I'm a LFBaholic.

Toltec

5,812 posts

169 months

Wednesday 9th October
quotequote all
NewUsername said:
Not again.....its pretty obvious to even the hardest of thinking that certainly when learning, and probably forever unless you have access to some great facilities( or train very hard) that your dominant leg ( in the majority of cases the right leg ) will have better reaction times than the less dominant leg, especially when pressing a pedal specifically positioned for being pressed by the right leg......
Obvious does not cut it, please provide data to prove your assertion.

NewUsername

245 posts

2 months

Wednesday 9th October
quotequote all
Toltec said:
NewUsername said:
Not again.....its pretty obvious to even the hardest of thinking that certainly when learning, and probably forever unless you have access to some great facilities( or train very hard) that your dominant leg ( in the majority of cases the right leg ) will have better reaction times than the less dominant leg, especially when pressing a pedal specifically positioned for being pressed by the right leg......
Obvious does not cut it, please provide data to prove your assertion.
http://medind.nic.in/ice/t12/i8/icet12i8p316.pdf

A significant statistical difference in reaction times between left and right side hand and feet...


Graveworm

2,454 posts

17 months

Wednesday 9th October
quotequote all
Toltec said:
Obvious does not cut it, please provide data to prove your assertion.
Already has been earlier in the thread. Plenty of real research and data out there for better response times for dominant side, hemisphere lesions etc. When it was introduced it was immediately criticised for trying to out nerd people.

NewUsername

245 posts

2 months

Wednesday 9th October
quotequote all
Toltec said:
NewUsername said:
Not again.....its pretty obvious to even the hardest of thinking that certainly when learning, and probably forever unless you have access to some great facilities( or train very hard) that your dominant leg ( in the majority of cases the right leg ) will have better reaction times than the less dominant leg, especially when pressing a pedal specifically positioned for being pressed by the right leg......
Obvious does not cut it, please provide data to prove your assertion.
http://medind.nic.in/ice/t12/i8/icet12i8p316.pdf

A significant statistical difference in reaction times between left and right side hand and feet...


JimSuperSix

3,069 posts

189 months

Wednesday 9th October
quotequote all
NewUsername said:
InitialDave said:
JimSuperSix said:
I'd like to see how you can move your foot over faster than I can just start pressing the pedal....ah right, you can't can you. Ironically you have no data to back up your assertions either....

Seeing as the pro rally instructor recommends LFB even on the normal roads, I think I'll follow his advice in preference to yours thanks.
I wouldn't have my left foot in that position, ready to just strike the pedal, it's just not comfortable for me to drive like that other than for short periods, and the requirement to do that is the only way to make it a faster action to get on the brake than with your right foot.

I do use left foot braking for car balance stuff with FWD sometimes, but I don't see much value in it as a "default" method for driving an auto.

I think if you want to get most drivers doing something to help their stopping distances, better observation is probably the best return on your "investment", along with getting them to push the pedal like they actually mean it.
The guy in the video even says you couldn’t do it all the time but the poster ignored that bit!

Wholeheartedly agree better observation and tempering of speed are more likely to yield shorter stopping distances in an emergency
You realise those things are not mutually exclusive?

Lets face it, you are desperately digging for any reason to not LFB, even when driving experts say its beneficial, and so far the best you can manage is "theres no data" and a rather weak distraction about going slower instead or having better observation are somehow linked to or negated by what foot you use to brake.

There are benefits, they are obvious to anyone looking objectively, and obvious to anyone who LFBs on a daily basis.

NewUsername

245 posts

2 months

Wednesday 9th October
quotequote all
JimSuperSix said:
NewUsername said:
InitialDave said:
JimSuperSix said:
I'd like to see how you can move your foot over faster than I can just start pressing the pedal....ah right, you can't can you. Ironically you have no data to back up your assertions either....

Seeing as the pro rally instructor recommends LFB even on the normal roads, I think I'll follow his advice in preference to yours thanks.
I wouldn't have my left foot in that position, ready to just strike the pedal, it's just not comfortable for me to drive like that other than for short periods, and the requirement to do that is the only way to make it a faster action to get on the brake than with your right foot.

I do use left foot braking for car balance stuff with FWD sometimes, but I don't see much value in it as a "default" method for driving an auto.

I think if you want to get most drivers doing something to help their stopping distances, better observation is probably the best return on your "investment", along with getting them to push the pedal like they actually mean it.
The guy in the video even says you couldn’t do it all the time but the poster ignored that bit!

Wholeheartedly agree better observation and tempering of speed are more likely to yield shorter stopping distances in an emergency
You realise those things are not mutually exclusive?

Lets face it, you are desperately digging for any reason to not LFB, even when driving experts say its beneficial, and so far the best you can manage is "theres no data" and a rather weak distraction about going slower instead or having better observation are somehow linked to or negated by what foot you use to brake.

There are benefits, they are obvious to anyone looking objectively, and obvious to anyone who LFBs on a daily basis.
Erm I’m not looking for reasons not to lfb at all, I’ve explained how I use lfb myself, how I don’t have any issue with competent people doing it and that I’d recommend it myself for those intending to use it for the desired purpose.

I’ve given some pretty sensible and reasoned arguments rather than an irrelevant clip of a rally driver in the US who even states in his video that you can’t do it all the time ( you seem to have an issue with not reading or listening to what people say)

What I keep returning to that you seem to be ignoring is that I don’t agree with novices learning the skill from scratch on the public roads for reasons stated .



JimSuperSix

3,069 posts

189 months

Wednesday 9th October
quotequote all
NewUsername said:
Toltec said:
NewUsername said:
Not again.....its pretty obvious to even the hardest of thinking that certainly when learning, and probably forever unless you have access to some great facilities( or train very hard) that your dominant leg ( in the majority of cases the right leg ) will have better reaction times than the less dominant leg, especially when pressing a pedal specifically positioned for being pressed by the right leg......
Obvious does not cut it, please provide data to prove your assertion.
http://medind.nic.in/ice/t12/i8/icet12i8p316.pdf

A significant statistical difference in reaction times between left and right side hand and feet...
if I am reading that right the difference is 10 milliseconds (of a sample size of 87 people) ?

So unless you can move your right foot off the throttle and onto the brake in less than 10 milliseconds....