Ditched Ferrari
Discussion
Caddyshack said:
Hol said:
Caddyshack said:
This thread reminds me of an argument I had on the TT forum on Fb. A bloke slid in the ice and bent his wheel, a poster responded that he must have a fault as his 4wd TT should not have slid on ice. I tried to explain that 4wd is a traction device and would not help braking on ice....it really kicked off as they could not comprehend that a 4wd is no better than 2wd at cornering and it is just the contact patch of the tyre. They thought that a spinning tyre would go away if you added more throttle.
It seems 4wd has some excellent marketing myths.
Actually, that always amazes me if someone says that. It doesn't matter if the car has air from a 10th Dan sensei's butt in the tyres, the drive train is irrelevant when braking on ice as everything comes down to the tyres ability to adhere to the ice. Anyone who actually has driven downhill on black ice understands (from experience).It seems 4wd has some excellent marketing myths.
Edited by Hol on Wednesday 9th October 08:47
Someone has nailed it in a one liner already, but AWD is good for getting you going as you aren't dragging or pushing a second axle when moving a from a standstill, but it offers no meaningful braking benefits.
Hungrymc said:
Is it right to say 4wd has no cornering benefits? It’s got some benefits from the apex onwards?
It’s the same as traction though. Just because it has some benefits certainly doesn’t make it always better when everything else isn’t equal.
4wd does optimise traction past the apex, which is still part of cornering I guess. It’s the same as traction though. Just because it has some benefits certainly doesn’t make it always better when everything else isn’t equal.
nickfrog said:
Hungrymc said:
Is it right to say 4wd has no cornering benefits? It’s got some benefits from the apex onwards?
It’s the same as traction though. Just because it has some benefits certainly doesn’t make it always better when everything else isn’t equal.
4wd does optimise traction past the apex, which is still part of cornering I guess. It’s the same as traction though. Just because it has some benefits certainly doesn’t make it always better when everything else isn’t equal.
cossy400 said:
355spiderguy said:
Gameface said:
Have a look at my garage.
Mug.
Mug.
thats proper cringe gold...next you will be asking 'do you know who i am?'And i'm guessing your not Ronnie Pickering...
Wasn't aware Gameface was that old?
Caddyshack said:
True but you could argue that on the way to the apex it is going slower due to all the extra weight over the extra axle plus the weight will blunt the acceleration and the design can compromise geometry and steering angle...but I get the point past apex although the tyre ideally needs to be pointing in a straight line to maximise it or you are dealing with slip angles too.
Yep, agree (although the slip angle point warrants a deeper discussion). And there are more items not discussed (weight distribution, unsprung weight etc etc) wins and losses all other things being even.There are far too many factors that often get stated as absolute facts. but I think sometimes in challenging that the ‘absolute fact’ is in fact not correct - such as 4x4 gives perfect traction in ice...... We also (accidentally or unintentionally) challenge the underlying factor which may be valid - such as 4x4 is a positive contributor to traction in the ice.
av185 said:
Biggest problem with most 4wds v their 2wd counterparts is that it tends to dilute steering feedback to the driver as such the limits of the car when cornering will be somewhat restricted.
Not likely to be a problem for a Golf R though, or in fact any current car par some exceptions, as feedback has all all but disappeared. Mike335i said:
av185 said:
Biggest problem with most 4wds v their 2wd counterparts is that it tends to dilute steering feedback to the driver as such the limits of the car when cornering will be somewhat restricted.
Not likely to be a problem for a Golf R though, or in fact any current car par some exceptions, as feedback has all all but disappeared. Interesting that McLaren despite their innovative stance has hydraulic on all their cars.
av185 said:
Biggest problem with most 4wds v their 2wd counterparts is that it tends to dilute steering feedback to the driver as such the limits of the car when cornering will be somewhat restricted.
Only if the manufacturer lets it. Though there weren't 2wd equivalents, the integrale and Escort Cosworth were noted for their superb steering feel. Hungrymc said:
Gojira said:
4wd doesn't always help for traction 
I’d say it does alway help for traction, but it isn’t the only factor and I’d put it behind tyres (and maybe weight) in importance..... but it does always help.... Im being pedantic, will fetch my coat.
I'll use 4wd when the roads are iced over , stops the arse end from fish tailing .fttm said:
Some Canadians say all 4wd does is get you further into the ditch
P.J.O'Rourke said:
Because pickup trucks get stuck in the woods so often, four-wheel drive has become a popular option. The four-wheel-drive feature is either operated by a lever which fails to put the truck in 4WD or by a lever which fails to take it out. Four-wheel-drive allows you to mire four wheels axle-deep in the woods instead of just two.
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