No good deed goes unpunished.

No good deed goes unpunished.

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Discussion

sxmwht

50 posts

5 months

Thursday 10th October
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Sheepshanks said:
Don'r know what you're thinking of but that's not feasible.

What does happen on many cars is they've got off/auto/sidelights/headlights - so people click two clicks from Off and think they've put the headlights on.

Off is disappearing from new cars now.
How do you know that's what happens?

Johnnytheboy

18,600 posts

132 months

Thursday 10th October
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I came across an MX5 stopped on a narrow but quite busy country lane over a hill in Dorset this Easter.

As unlikely as this seems I assumed it had broken down (hehe) as it was stopped just beyond a passing place/layby, and they had left barely enough room for me to squeeze past.

So I wound down my window and asked if they needed any help and the bloke replied "why don't you just fk off".

As I drove off I could see a woman sat on a camp chair in front of the car making a hot drink from a flask. confused

RazerSauber

407 posts

6 months

Thursday 10th October
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loggo said:
RazerSauber said:
Daytime Running Lamps, not sidelights I suspect buddy.
Yes I can see that but on the cars I've owned that have DRL the lights come-on automatically and do not need turning one click ?
A friend of mine had a Citroen C1 in some form or other (Connexion trim maybe?) that had an off position for DRL's on the light control.

Shakermaker

9,819 posts

46 months

Thursday 10th October
quotequote all
sxmwht said:
Sheepshanks said:
Don'r know what you're thinking of but that's not feasible.

What does happen on many cars is they've got off/auto/sidelights/headlights - so people click two clicks from Off and think they've put the headlights on.

Off is disappearing from new cars now.
How do you know that's what happens?
He can't know that.

It is just as feasible that there are all these people, many of whom post on PH, who "don't trust auto lights" and so manually over ride the setting but then forget to do anything more. Or maybe they think "Well in my old car, I did this to put the lights on and this new car must be exactly the same even though it is a different model by a different manufacturer"

Most likely reason though, is they are just forgetful/ignorant as all of us can be at times, and that some technology does exist to aid this but it isn't completely adopted yet so we still see the hangover of these people

RobM77

33,012 posts

180 months

Thursday 10th October
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rossub said:
Sheepshanks said:
Off is disappearing from new cars now.
I'll note that as another reason not buy a modern car.
This is a worry, because if you're sensible enough to operate your own lights correctly, then auto lights can be a hazard rather than a benefit. I once had someone pull out in front of me when I turned my lights on - they thought I was flashing them. Ever since then I've been careful when I switch my lights on and haven't used auto lights for this same reason: I've no control over when they come on.

Edited by RobM77 on Thursday 10th October 15:48

blueacid

231 posts

87 months

Thursday 10th October
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I thought with daytime running lights that the stalk often had three settings: Off, Sidelights, Headlights (and then perhaps a fourth: Auto).

In "off", you get lights at the front of the car, nothing at the rear.
Sidelights, you get lights at front and rear, just like on an older car
Headlights... same again.

My guess is that people are in fact driving around with the stalk set to "off", but they can see the reflection of their front lights in the car ahead and wrongly believe there are lights at the back also.

This isn't for every car with DRLs, but... a worrying percentage of them!

Shakermaker

9,819 posts

46 months

Thursday 10th October
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RobM77 said:
This is a worry, because if you're sensible enough to operate your own lights correctly, then auto lights can be a hazard rather than a benefit. I once had someone pull out in front of me when I turned my lights on - they thought I was flashing them. Ever since then I've been careful when I switch my lights on and haven't used auto lights for this same reason: I've no control over when they come on.

Edited by RobM77 on Thursday 10th October 15:48
That doesn't sound like a reason not to have auto lights, that just sounds like another reason people should not use "flash" as a means to tell people to come out, even though a huge proportion of people do it.

RemyMartin81D

5,010 posts

151 months

Thursday 10th October
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Mound Dawg said:
You do in a Fiat 124 Spider, and the number plate lights too!
Fiat ftw.

Also my new model car has off for drl and auto lights. So world isn't quite falling apart.

RobM77

33,012 posts

180 months

Thursday 10th October
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Shakermaker said:
RobM77 said:
This is a worry, because if you're sensible enough to operate your own lights correctly, then auto lights can be a hazard rather than a benefit. I once had someone pull out in front of me when I turned my lights on - they thought I was flashing them. Ever since then I've been careful when I switch my lights on and haven't used auto lights for this same reason: I've no control over when they come on.

Edited by RobM77 on Thursday 10th October 15:48
That doesn't sound like a reason not to have auto lights, that just sounds like another reason people should not use "flash" as a means to tell people to come out, even though a huge proportion of people do it.
It is, yes, and it's why the Highway Code states that flashing merely means "I am here" (https://www.drivingtesttips.biz/flashing-headlights.html).

However, we have to operate in the real world, and in the real world people think flashing means "after you, please pull out". We're not going to change the habits of every driver in the UK. Ergo, I don't want my headlights coming on when I'm approaching a junction at speed!

Hol

5,131 posts

146 months

Thursday 10th October
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Byker28i said:
It's amazing the number of cars you see who've turned the lights on one click, so have front driving lights only and no rear lights.
steveo3002 said:
loggo said:
Puzzled by this as all the cars I have driven in the last 50 years have front and rear lights that come on together. Or have I misunderstood?
modern cars light up the dash and front running lights , dimwits think the headlights are on because the dash is lit up
Yeah, But those are DRL's which are lit up when the lights are off.

Sidelights (activated via one click of the light switch as per the statement being discussed) have always turned on the front and rear lights.

RicksAlfas

9,999 posts

190 months

Thursday 10th October
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My car has no off for the lights:



(Merc C-Class).

RemyMartin81D

5,010 posts

151 months

Thursday 10th October
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RobM77 said:
It is, yes, and it's why the Highway Code states that flashing merely means "I am here" (https://www.drivingtesttips.biz/flashing-headlights.html).

However, we have to operate in the real world, and in the real world people think flashing means "after you, please pull out". We're not going to change the habits of every driver in the UK. Ergo, I don't want my headlights coming on when I'm approaching a junction at speed!
The chances are slim. No hits on google for accident from autolights.

RobM77

33,012 posts

180 months

Thursday 10th October
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RemyMartin81D said:
RobM77 said:
It is, yes, and it's why the Highway Code states that flashing merely means "I am here" (https://www.drivingtesttips.biz/flashing-headlights.html).

However, we have to operate in the real world, and in the real world people think flashing means "after you, please pull out". We're not going to change the habits of every driver in the UK. Ergo, I don't want my headlights coming on when I'm approaching a junction at speed!
The chances are slim. No hits on google for accident from autolights.
Seriously?! Records of every car accident in the UK are not publicly searchable on Google!!! Why ever would you think they were? Slim chances are what causes accidents and this is a real concern. As described above, I have already had this happen - it was me turning the lights on as a young and inexperienced driver many years ago, but I had a friend next to me at the time and we looked at each other after I'd finished braking and just said something like "lesson learnt! headlights..." in unison. I've also had it happen the other way round; I've looked right and left at a junction and seen lights go on - I haven't pulled out, because I'm aware of this, but plenty of people would.


Edited by RobM77 on Thursday 10th October 16:52

RicksAlfas

9,999 posts

190 months

Thursday 10th October
quotequote all
RemyMartin81D said:
RobM77 said:
It is, yes, and it's why the Highway Code states that flashing merely means "I am here" (https://www.drivingtesttips.biz/flashing-headlights.html).

However, we have to operate in the real world, and in the real world people think flashing means "after you, please pull out". We're not going to change the habits of every driver in the UK. Ergo, I don't want my headlights coming on when I'm approaching a junction at speed!
The chances are slim. No hits on google for accident from autolights.
I'm with Rob on this one. They can switch on at inappropriate times. Or put it another way, if you were bombing along in an older car and decided it was now "lighting up time", you wouldn't put your lights on as you were approaching a car waiting at a junction, or indicating to change lanes would you?

Auto lights also don't seem great in some conditions like rain or fog but yet drivers are happy to rely on "I've got Auto Lights!"

Shakermaker

9,819 posts

46 months

Thursday 10th October
quotequote all
RobM77 said:
It is, yes, and it's why the Highway Code states that flashing merely means "I am here" (https://www.drivingtesttips.biz/flashing-headlights.html).

However, we have to operate in the real world, and in the real world people think flashing means "after you, please pull out". We're not going to change the habits of every driver in the UK. Ergo, I don't want my headlights coming on when I'm approaching a junction at speed!
But you said that YOU turned them on and someone thought you were flashing them out. Would the auto lights have turned on at that same exact time in the same set of circumstances?

Either way, the fault was with the person who pulled out thinking that you were giving way to them when you weren't, rather than any perceived reason that auto lights would somehow make this a more common occurence?

Mr Whippy

21,848 posts

187 months

Thursday 10th October
quotequote all
I just leave my headlights on all the time. Job jobbed.

RemyMartin81D

5,010 posts

151 months

Thursday 10th October
quotequote all
RicksAlfas said:
I'm with Rob on this one. They can switch on at inappropriate times. Or put it another way, if you were bombing along in an older car and decided it was now "lighting up time", you wouldn't put your lights on as you were approaching a car waiting at a junction, or indicating to change lanes would you?

Auto lights also don't seem great in some conditions like rain or fog but yet drivers are happy to rely on "I've got Auto Lights!"
I probably wouldn't be 'bombing along' on roads where a misconstrued signal would bring me into conflict or travel at a speed where I could react.

RobM77

33,012 posts

180 months

Thursday 10th October
quotequote all
Shakermaker said:
RobM77 said:
It is, yes, and it's why the Highway Code states that flashing merely means "I am here" (https://www.drivingtesttips.biz/flashing-headlights.html).

However, we have to operate in the real world, and in the real world people think flashing means "after you, please pull out". We're not going to change the habits of every driver in the UK. Ergo, I don't want my headlights coming on when I'm approaching a junction at speed!
But you said that YOU turned them on and someone thought you were flashing them out. Would the auto lights have turned on at that same exact time in the same set of circumstances?

Either way, the fault was with the person who pulled out thinking that you were giving way to them when you weren't, rather than any perceived reason that auto lights would somehow make this a more common occurence?
It doesn't matter whose fault it is, I don't want to have an accident and I will take steps to avoid one. Operating my own lights isn't exactly onerous.

The lights could have turned on in that circumstance, yes, because it was getting dark; that's all that matters here - they could do.

My point is very simple: it's not a good idea to have no control over when your lights come on, because lights are commonly used as a method of communication between drivers. Think of motorways: you're overtaking a lot of the time and a flash can mean "please pull out".

Edited by RobM77 on Thursday 10th October 17:10

RobM77

33,012 posts

180 months

Thursday 10th October
quotequote all
RemyMartin81D said:
RicksAlfas said:
I'm with Rob on this one. They can switch on at inappropriate times. Or put it another way, if you were bombing along in an older car and decided it was now "lighting up time", you wouldn't put your lights on as you were approaching a car waiting at a junction, or indicating to change lanes would you?

Auto lights also don't seem great in some conditions like rain or fog but yet drivers are happy to rely on "I've got Auto Lights!"
I probably wouldn't be 'bombing along' on roads where a misconstrued signal would bring me into conflict or travel at a speed where I could react.
Why would you need to be bombing along? All that speed does is increase the distance from the junction where a problem would occur. You could be doing 20mph and have the same issue 2 metres from the other car, or 40mph 4 metres from it. It's still a problem.

FunkyNige

6,491 posts

221 months

Thursday 10th October
quotequote all
steveo3002 said:
loggo said:
Puzzled by this as all the cars I have driven in the last 50 years have front and rear lights that come on together. Or have I misunderstood?
modern cars light up the dash and front running lights , dimwits think the headlights are on because the dash is lit up
My car (2013 Audi A3) is the opposite - if I don't have headlights on and it's getting darker outside the dash gets darker and harder to read, putting the headlights on lights it up.