Are these Vloggers just a scam? SOL or Shmee etc? (Vol. 3)

[uncleluck]

I’d find it highly unlikely Ollie Webb couldn’t distinguish between the two speeds quoted above! That’s a world away.

[Hazmat1]

-Z- said:

Not so simple, very easy to not involve the Driver in the hoodwinking at all. Cars he races top out around 200mph, at LeMans with trees everywhere. I don't think he'd be able to tell the diff between 270mph and 330mph in a wide, flat, featureless desert.

The GPS data is absolutely not the only thing that matters, you have to look at all available evidence.

so what other data accurately down to say 5hz do you suggest be looked at to verify the speed 'IF' GPS data is not what matters?

[-Z-]

Mezzanine said:

Sorry, you are suggesting that a professional racing driver would not be able to sense the difference of 60mph , especially when very north of 200mph?? Even with reduced visual clues, a professional driver would sense speed.

Not a snidey question, but is it possible to trick GPS data? Or are we saying that they have just manually manipulated the figures?

As said above, it would be a bit silly for the driver to involve himself within a conspiracy to deceive, but he would know if he ‘only’ reached 270mph.

They have said there was more to come so presume more runs are planned and all this drama will ensure they get it properly verified next time and pay Guinness their appearance fees.

Or they will disappear into the sewers if it’s all BS.

But this is at speeds that this professional racing driver possibly has no experience in, most circuits apart from LeMans will see a max of 180ish in the typical GT3 car.

Now, given that the assumption is that he never did 330mph you are expecting him to confirm he was travelling at a speed he's never done. Humans are ste at judging speed since its all on visual, auditory and sensory cues, we can sense acceleration but that's not relevant to a specific speed. Your perception of speed is massively influenced by the behaviour of the car, noise, closeness to external scenery etc. Hence why 40mph in a Caterham feels faster than 70mph in a 7 series.

60mph out of 330mph is only 18%, of course its possible that a human can easily not pick it up, when you have no baseline experience of that speed, ever.

[-Z-]

Hazmat1 said:

so what other data accurately down to say 5hz do you suggest be looked at to verify the speed 'IF' GPS data is not what matters?

I said GPS is not the *only* thing that matters. If they provide GPS data but still cannot explain the other discrepancies then why should we trust them?

[Hazmat1]

Because promo vids for speed record attempts are notoriously cut together footage


Unless the accusers actually have the GPS data to definitively prove it didn’t do that speed I think Tim et al need to lawyer up.

[-Z-]

Hazmat1 said:

Because promo vids for speed record attempts are notoriously cut together footage


Unless the accusers actually have the GPS data to definitively prove it didn’t do that speed I think Tim et al need to lawyer up.

Oh please. All that people are doing is maths on the unedited footage that SSC themselves released. Would be laughed straight out of court.

[Mezzanine]

-Z- said:

Mezzanine said:

Sorry, you are suggesting that a professional racing driver would not be able to sense the difference of 60mph , especially when very north of 200mph?? Even with reduced visual clues, a professional driver would sense speed.

Not a snidey question, but is it possible to trick GPS data? Or are we saying that they have just manually manipulated the figures?

As said above, it would be a bit silly for the driver to involve himself within a conspiracy to deceive, but he would know if he ‘only’ reached 270mph.

They have said there was more to come so presume more runs are planned and all this drama will ensure they get it properly verified next time and pay Guinness their appearance fees.

Or they will disappear into the sewers if it’s all BS.

But this is at speeds that this professional racing driver possibly has no experience in, most circuits apart from LeMans will see a max of 180ish in the typical GT3 car.

Now, given that the assumption is that he never did 330mph you are expecting him to confirm he was travelling at a speed he's never done. Humans are ste at judging speed since its all on visual, auditory and sensory cues, we can sense acceleration but that's not relevant to a specific speed. Your perception of speed is massively influenced by the behaviour of the car, noise, closeness to external scenery etc. Hence why 40mph in a Caterham feels faster than 70mph in a 7 series.

60mph out of 330mph is only 18%, of course its possible that a human can easily not pick it up, when you have no baseline experience of that speed, ever.

I understand to a point your view, but racing drivers have a unique ability to sense the behaviour of a car and speed which us normal people simply don’t have. You suggest he tops out at 180mph on a race track, but he does that in all weathers and lighting conditions for multiple hours at a time - they drive at a level above, their senses are well aware of speed and cars behaviour at speed in all conditions.

Given that we are assuming this car only did 270mph anyway, rather than the 331mph - he would know that it wasn’t that much faster than he usually drives. If they did do the 331mph, and he was only used to 180mph, he would definitely know about it through the steering wheel/his backside.

I also cannot imagine that this was the first time or run they did either, if the driver was only used to doing 180mph, would he really just turn up on that day, strap in and go for north of 300mph? You would have to be thick or dangerous to just immediately take an unproven car to this speed. He must have done test runs, know the car and it’s behaviours just a touch?

[-Z-]

Mezzanine said:

I understand to a point your view, but racing drivers have a unique ability to sense the behaviour of a car and speed which us normal people simply don’t have. You suggest he tops out at 180mph on a race track, but he does that in all weathers and lighting conditions for multiple hours at a time - they drive at a level above, their senses are well aware of speed and cars behaviour at speed in all conditions.

Given that we are assuming this car only did 270mph anyway, rather than the 331mph - he would know that it wasn’t that much faster than he usually drives. If they did do the 331mph, and he was only used to 180mph, he would definitely know about it through the steering wheel/his backside.

I also cannot imagine that this was the first time or run they did either, if the driver was only used to doing 180mph, would he really just turn up on that day, strap in and go for north of 300mph? You would have to be thick or dangerous to just immediately take an unproven car to this speed. He must have done test runs, know the car and it’s behaviours just a touch?

That road was only closed for the few hours they used it. Given that they specifically said they used "off the shelf Michelin Cup 2s" would you doubt their cavalier attitude to safety would continue in other aspects? Bare in mind that the Chiron uses specially developed tyres as they found that at 300mph the 5000G the tyre valve experienced resulted in the valve stem of a regular tyre moving on its own and letting air out......

[Hazmat1]

-Z- said:

Oh please. All that people are doing is maths on the unedited footage that SSC themselves released. Would be laughed straight out of court.

Precisely, it’s laughable the accusations and “proof” they are coming out with

[Rogue86]

-Z- said:

All that people are doing is maths on the unedited footage that SSC themselves released.

Unless you're watching something I haven't seen, the 'official' SSC video is absolutely edited. Even after watching Tims video, it seems more likely a result of combining footage (potentially not from the fastest run) in order to produce a high quality video.

[-Z-]

Rogue86 said:

Unless you're watching something I haven't seen, the 'official' SSC video is absolutely edited. Even after watching Tims video, it seems more likely a result of combining footage (potentially not from the fastest run) in order to produce a high quality video.

The TG 'exclusive' video has no cuts from the moment the car moves off to top speed being reached, so not sure what edits you are referencing tbh.

[AyBee]

Rogue86 said:

-Z- said:

All that people are doing is maths on the unedited footage that SSC themselves released.

Unless you're watching something I haven't seen, the 'official' SSC video is absolutely edited. Even after watching Tims video, it seems more likely a result of combining footage (potentially not from the fastest run) in order to produce a high quality video.

I suspect it's this too, but odd that SSC haven't just released that footage, or said that that's what they've done?

[Rogue86]

-Z- said:

The TG 'exclusive' video has no cuts from the moment the car moves off to top speed being reached, so not sure what edits you are referencing tbh.

This TG video that combines 3 different reels of footage with overlaid text and telemetry?

[-Z-]

Rogue86 said:

This TG video that combines 3 different reels of footage with overlaid text and telemetry?

Yeeeess but no actual cuts in continuity of footage is there?

It's funny I film my trackdays on 2 cameras, edit them with picture in picture on a free editing app and not only do they stay matched, but when I time laps from my video after uploading to YouTube it exactly matches the laptimes from my 10hz external GPS module. I'm an idiot and even my stuff all matches, so why wouldn't SSCs professional footage be good enough to time intervals from?

[Rogue86]

-Z- said:

Yeeeess but no actual cuts in continuity of footage is there?

It's funny I film my trackdays on 2 cameras, edit them with picture in picture on a free editing app and not only do they stay matched, but when I time laps from my video after uploading to YouTube it exactly matches the laptimes from my 10hz external GPS module. I'm an idiot and even my stuff all matches, so why wouldn't SSCs professional footage be good enough to time intervals from?

I think it's likely there was a reason they may have wanted to use footage from a different run and make the telemetry match for the power run for whatever reason. It would be a media-driven decision rather than expecting people to analyse time/distance based from it. It's certainly something I've done and seen happen regularly, so I don't see a reason why that couldn't be the case here. Certainly more likely than a massive conspiracy.

[crosseyedlion]

Rogue86 said:

-Z- said:

Yeeeess but no actual cuts in continuity of footage is there?

It's funny I film my trackdays on 2 cameras, edit them with picture in picture on a free editing app and not only do they stay matched, but when I time laps from my video after uploading to YouTube it exactly matches the laptimes from my 10hz external GPS module. I'm an idiot and even my stuff all matches, so why wouldn't SSCs professional footage be good enough to time intervals from?

I think it's likely there was a reason they may have wanted to use footage from a different run and make the telemetry match for the power run for whatever reason. It would be a media-driven decision rather than expecting people to analyse time/distance based from it. It's certainly something I've done and seen happen regularly, so I don't see a reason why that couldn't be the case here. Certainly more likely than a massive conspiracy.

I have serious doubts that a company misguided and naive to carry out what your suggesting has the capability to engineer an entire car that can do 331mph.

Its so wildly far beyond previous records and not independently verified given that it is so spectacular, im inclined to believe shmee150's analysis.

[beadmu]

Misha and Robert do more maths in Misha's channel.

Not sure if Buddy Wyrick did the production on the video published by TG. Kinda sketchy that one.

[clarky92]

beadmu said:

Misha and Robert do more maths in Misha's channel.

Not sure if Buddy Wyrick did the production on the video published by TG. Kinda sketchy that one.

The excel spreadsheet and pointer meant business lol

[614-HSO]

beadmu said:

Misha and Robert do more maths in Misha's channel.

Not sure if Buddy Wyrick did the production on the video published by TG. Kinda sketchy that one.

Misha video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSNRKBj_hUE

So the BBC and Top Gear were involved, not surprised it's fake and lies, something like this would never have happened on Top Gear when Jezza was involved with the show.

Tim, Misha and Robert have destroyed SSC's credibility unless SSC come out with hard evidence and proof.

[-Z-]

Rogue86 said:

I think it's likely there was a reason they may have wanted to use footage from a different run and make the telemetry match for the power run for whatever reason. It would be a media-driven decision rather than expecting people to analyse time/distance based from it. It's certainly something I've done and seen happen regularly, so I don't see a reason why that couldn't be the case here. Certainly more likely than a massive conspiracy.

That's debunked as in this VR video look down and to the right with your phone, you can see the GPS laptop giving the telemetry readout live, the gains in speed exactly match the gearshifts at the start for example. My theory is that the telemetry is being spoofed 'live' if that makes sense. Could be as simple as the laptop being configured to show a percentage over the Ecu/true GPS speed readout. This is given further credence as this time the speedo in front of the driver is totally non existant, it's been erased!

https://youtu.be/NOE-RTLercU