Volkswagen Golf R vs. Golf GTI TCR
Discussion
Looks-wise, out of these two I would go for the GTI TCR but sadly both are a fail for me, as neither are available with a manual transmission. I was hoping that the TCR was going to be a less limited-edition Clubsport S with rear seats and the availability of 5 doors but sadly not. Fun and involving is the key element of a hot hatch for me rather than outright speed, so neither these or the new M135i, A35/A45 AMG or Audi RS3 are great hot hatches to me. I guess that my mk7 Golf of choice would be a manual GTI Performance (would have taken a Clubsport S even with 3 doors but the lack of rear seats would be a dealbreaker for me).
Currently driving a mk7.5 Golf (GT TSI Auto Estate) and it's hard to think of a better all-round car for the money than a mk7 Golf (or to a lesser extent, mk3 Focus). It's perhaps not all the car that I'd ever want but probably all the car I'd ever need. I quite fancy a G30 5-Series/W213 E-Class with a 6-pot but as I've never spent more than 15k on a car, it seems like quite an expensive folly, as my Golf has all the features that those cars have (sat nav, radar cruise, front and rear parking sensors, panoramic roof, LED lights etc) and the infotainment system is pretty decent too. Performance is more than acceptable, handling decent and the automatic transmission is excellent but one thing that it isn't compared to my last car (a MINI Cooper) is fun and involving and I think a big part of that for me is changing my own gears. Had a few mk5 Golfs as company cars previously and they were great all-rounders too.
Never really thought of the Golf R as a hot hatch to be honest, more of a more compact luxury/executive car like the 3-Series/C-Class that just happens to match those cars for performance and be a hatchback. This really started with the mk3 Golf VR6 and continued with the R32 models. The GTI was always the "hot hatch" variant of the Golf. More accessible and a bit more fun (mk3/mk4 GTIs aside). Now of course, BMW/Mercedes/Audi have their own compact hatches, so it has lost its USP somewhat.
Not sure whether I'd go for the brilliant well-roundedness of a manual GTI Performance next or something objectively worse but possibly a bit more fun like a GT86, Fiesta ST, M135i/M140i (F20) etc but yeah, as an all-rounder a mk7 GTI is probably one of the best cars that I've encountered.
Currently driving a mk7.5 Golf (GT TSI Auto Estate) and it's hard to think of a better all-round car for the money than a mk7 Golf (or to a lesser extent, mk3 Focus). It's perhaps not all the car that I'd ever want but probably all the car I'd ever need. I quite fancy a G30 5-Series/W213 E-Class with a 6-pot but as I've never spent more than 15k on a car, it seems like quite an expensive folly, as my Golf has all the features that those cars have (sat nav, radar cruise, front and rear parking sensors, panoramic roof, LED lights etc) and the infotainment system is pretty decent too. Performance is more than acceptable, handling decent and the automatic transmission is excellent but one thing that it isn't compared to my last car (a MINI Cooper) is fun and involving and I think a big part of that for me is changing my own gears. Had a few mk5 Golfs as company cars previously and they were great all-rounders too.
Never really thought of the Golf R as a hot hatch to be honest, more of a more compact luxury/executive car like the 3-Series/C-Class that just happens to match those cars for performance and be a hatchback. This really started with the mk3 Golf VR6 and continued with the R32 models. The GTI was always the "hot hatch" variant of the Golf. More accessible and a bit more fun (mk3/mk4 GTIs aside). Now of course, BMW/Mercedes/Audi have their own compact hatches, so it has lost its USP somewhat.
Not sure whether I'd go for the brilliant well-roundedness of a manual GTI Performance next or something objectively worse but possibly a bit more fun like a GT86, Fiesta ST, M135i/M140i (F20) etc but yeah, as an all-rounder a mk7 GTI is probably one of the best cars that I've encountered.
white_goodman said:
Not sure whether I'd go for the brilliant well-roundedness of a manual GTI Performance next or something objectively worse but possibly a bit more fun like a GT86, Fiesta ST, M135i/M140i (F20) etc but yeah, as an all-rounder a mk7 GTI is probably one of the best cars that I've encountered.
Manual 5 door Clubsport with buckets and the standard 18” Belvedere alloys would be my choice. andrewparker said:
Manual 5 door Clubsport with buckets and the standard 18” Belvedere alloys would be my choice.
What's the deal with the Clubsport? More power than the GTI Performance but less than the TCR/Clubsport S but manual and rear seats? Same chassis tuning as the Clubsport S? Also, how many did they make? Can't find any on A/T and but there's a handful of Clubsport Ss and quite a few TCRs.Leon Cupra R is also of interest but they only made 24 for the UK! Pretty crazy really, as previous Leon Cupra Rs always seemed fairly popular and were never limited in numbers. Leon interior looks a bit dated compared to the Golf though.
white_goodman said:
What's the deal with the Clubsport? More power than the GTI Performance but less than the TCR/Clubsport S but manual and rear seats? Same chassis tuning as the Clubsport S? Also, how many did they make? Can't find any on A/T and but there's a handful of Clubsport Ss and quite a few TCRs.
Leon Cupra R is also of interest but they only made 24 for the UK! Pretty crazy really, as previous Leon Cupra Rs always seemed fairly popular and were never limited in numbers. Leon interior looks a bit dated compared to the Golf though.
Edition 40 = Clubsport.Leon Cupra R is also of interest but they only made 24 for the UK! Pretty crazy really, as previous Leon Cupra Rs always seemed fairly popular and were never limited in numbers. Leon interior looks a bit dated compared to the Golf though.
Yes, more power, however not the CSS chassis. Can be had with manual and 5 door. Went around Spa in my Clubsport and surprisingly there wasn’t much difference between mine and a TCR. I’m still thinking of upgrading to a TCR though, as my warranty runs out soon.
Mutema said:
J4CKO said:
Is this partly about the R being so numerous due to being available on affordable lease deals for a few years ?
At least the TCR has back seats, I would feel such a tit saying I cant offer someone a lift because my otherwise normal looking Golf doesn't have any back seats to keep the weight down to save a few seconds on a German racetrack.
Why would you feel a tit? Do you run a taxi service? As a single car to do it all, practicality is compromised but you don't buy a CSS as a single car to do it all. I suspect, much like myself, other owners have other cars too. At least the TCR has back seats, I would feel such a tit saying I cant offer someone a lift because my otherwise normal looking Golf doesn't have any back seats to keep the weight down to save a few seconds on a German racetrack.
You're legally allowed to carry passengers in the back of the CSS but it's not going to be comfortable or as safe.
Having no rear seats makes a minuscule difference to the actual performance, seems a weird thing to do and severely limits the usefulness of the car.
But each to their own (and one passenger)
I've just got a TCR so sort out this review, after 6 M cars I wanted try one and it's a really good car, the 1400kg kerb weight is telling in terms of how the car flows down a road and the chuckablity of the chassis (and the fact you think you can) are great fun, the article's complaints of a lack of front end grip under power in the TCR are a silly it was January no 290hp front wheel drive car has traction off the lights in January regardless of the front end geo (and it's absurd to even suggest it).
What I really like is the front diff on the TCR as unlike the diffs in my M cars you can really feel this working and managing the torque as you come through the corner and plant it (as the limits are lower and the torque less you feel you can lean on the car more) whereas an M needs to be taken to much higher speeds and loads to show what it can do, so you never experience it unless on a track.
It's on 18" on bridgestones so those are being swapped for Pretoria 19" and PS4S as they look like casters due to the additional splitters/side skirts and diffusor (which is too much no need for that at the rear) I have the Akrapovic factory exhaust as well but I'd prefer the standard one it feels a little chavvy.
I've never had a hot hatch as I went straight to an M3 so I'm glad to have on my drive now and I would say that on a flowing road once up to speed I can understand how effective these cars are and the kind of confidence they give the driver unlike an F80 M3 that feels like it's too fast for you these flatter and are fun because of that.
What I really like is the front diff on the TCR as unlike the diffs in my M cars you can really feel this working and managing the torque as you come through the corner and plant it (as the limits are lower and the torque less you feel you can lean on the car more) whereas an M needs to be taken to much higher speeds and loads to show what it can do, so you never experience it unless on a track.
It's on 18" on bridgestones so those are being swapped for Pretoria 19" and PS4S as they look like casters due to the additional splitters/side skirts and diffusor (which is too much no need for that at the rear) I have the Akrapovic factory exhaust as well but I'd prefer the standard one it feels a little chavvy.
I've never had a hot hatch as I went straight to an M3 so I'm glad to have on my drive now and I would say that on a flowing road once up to speed I can understand how effective these cars are and the kind of confidence they give the driver unlike an F80 M3 that feels like it's too fast for you these flatter and are fun because of that.
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