Subaru vs bike head on collision.

Subaru vs bike head on collision.

Author
Discussion

gforceg

3,224 posts

133 months

Wednesday 25th March
quotequote all
BANANAAAA!!!!!



Too soon?

Countdown

26,984 posts

150 months

Wednesday 25th March
quotequote all
V8RX7 said:
0ddball said:
So basically he was still going too fast for a corner on a road he wasn't familiar with.
As is usually the case.

When my friends have crashed and blame XYZ I simply ask

Did the car in front of you crash ?

Did the car behind you crash ?
Completely agree.

Yes, there were lots of other factors/hazards at that particular location, but that happens at some point on most journeys. The fact is he didn't leave himself enough of a safety margin or buffer to be able to cope.

Drawweight

562 posts

70 months

Wednesday 25th March
quotequote all

Interesting analysis very well presented.

But how do you explain that the car following (presumably at approximately the same speed) managed to take the same corner without going right onto the other side.

768

6,565 posts

50 months

Wednesday 25th March
quotequote all
I'm not sure anyone's had a crash where there wasn't some speed involved, so you can always naively claim they were going too fast. No one learns anything from that until you reach the point that we all sit still.

He presumably didn't have crash on the section of road before it, or the section of road before that...

WinstonWolf

72,133 posts

193 months

Wednesday 25th March
quotequote all
Drawweight said:
Interesting analysis very well presented.

But how do you explain that the car following (presumably at approximately the same speed) managed to take the same corner without going right onto the other side.
He would have probably had additional visual clues from the car ahead of him.

Dont like rolls

3,386 posts

8 months

Wednesday 25th March
quotequote all
Falconer said:
Dr Jekyll said:
A1VDY said:
The problem here with talk of vanishing point, heel and toe, racing line, cornering at 0.8g ect ect is that we're talking of the public roads here.
All this bks needs to be kept for the track..
Vanishing point is a road driving concept with no relevance to the track.
Absolutely. Everyone should learn that one. Just sums up lack of knowledge in these comments especially from non Subaru drivers.
rightio, because buying a particular product gives you the powers of a driving god.

rev-erend

20,353 posts

238 months

Wednesday 25th March
quotequote all
MJK 24 said:
I see these chaps have gone into almost forensic levels of detail into this crash.

Really interesting if you’ve a spare ten minutes handy. Made me look at something that looks very straightforward and cut and dried completely differently.

https://youtu.be/QpGb5LFzKtE
Thanks that was really interesting.

The guy really does his analysis in a good and detailed way.

popeyewhite

12,035 posts

74 months

Wednesday 25th March
quotequote all
Drawweight said:
Interesting analysis very well presented.

But how do you explain that the car following (presumably at approximately the same speed) managed to take the same corner without going right onto the other side.
Lots of dodgy corners like that in the Peak District and you learn to be careful when pressing on. Dips/bumps etc are a fact of life up here and although the clip is interesting the degree of mitigation it provides is tiny. My view is if the driver knew the road he messed up, and if he didn't know the road he was driving carelessly. It's not news that some roads are bumpy!

Falconer

70 posts

4 months

Wednesday 25th March
quotequote all
Dont like rolls said:
Falconer said:
Dr Jekyll said:
A1VDY said:
The problem here with talk of vanishing point, heel and toe, racing line, cornering at 0.8g ect ect is that we're talking of the public roads here.
All this bks needs to be kept for the track..
Vanishing point is a road driving concept with no relevance to the track.
Absolutely. Everyone should learn that one. Just sums up lack of knowledge in these comments especially from non Subaru drivers.
rightio, because buying a particular product gives you the powers of a driving god.
Not at all that’s not what I said.
Firstly, I was agreeing with the comment re vanishing point. This is a good technique that everyone should know.
Secondly, I was pointing out that a lot of the conjecture re the car was rubbish probably mostly from people who have never owned a Subaru. At no point did I claim any driving prowess on my behalf.
That crash was down to careless driving, would have happened in any car.

Krikkit

18,313 posts

135 months

Wednesday 25th March
quotequote all
Dr Jekyll said:
0ddball said:
So basically he was still going too fast for a corner on a road he wasn't familiar with.
'Basically' he was going too fast for that corner b]because[/b] he didn't correctly assess the hazards, and this error was partly because the hazards were genuinely hard to spot, gradient, sudden deterioration in road surface. Then his eye was caught by the very poor surface on the left which both distracted him from the oncoming traffic and prompted him to move to the right.

It was complicated, the holes in the cheese lined up. We'd all like to say 'it happened because he was a hooligan' because of course that means it couldn't possibly have happened to us. In reality he made mistakes, and analysing why he made them isn't making excuses for him, it's a way of learning and avoiding them.
Yep that's my take too - frankly I might've been caught out on that corner in exactly the same way. Looking at the footage again (which is actually from the dash cam a bit higher than the driver's eye view) you can see how little there was to see before you were right on top of the corner.


Countdown

26,984 posts

150 months

Wednesday 25th March
quotequote all
Krikkit said:
Yep that's my take too - frankly I might've been caught out on that corner in exactly the same way. Looking at the footage again (which is actually from the dash cam a bit higher than the driver's eye view) you can see how little there was to see before you were right on top of the corner.
I know that hindsight is 20:20 but you see the road markings disappear/the bend appearing. That alone would have had me braking.

If you cant see where the road is going and still carry on at the same speed that just seems foolish.

V8RX7

19,798 posts

217 months

Wednesday 25th March
quotequote all
Krikkit said:
frankly I might've been caught out on that corner in exactly the same way. Looking at the footage again (which is actually from the dash cam a bit higher than the driver's eye view) you can see how little there was to see before you were right on top of the corner.
It's hard to say...

I would have been coming along the straight well into 3 figures and braked hard as soon as I couldn't see where the road went.

Certainly the poor road surface and bumps had an effect but as mentioned up there, you have to expect that

The highways dept want a kick up the arse though - to resurface a straight road and then NOT the corner beggars belief.



untakenname

2,873 posts

146 months

Wednesday 25th March
quotequote all
From the analysis of that video I would say it's 70% the fault of the driver and 30% down to the road.

How would a modern car with ESP and traction control behave round the same corner?

I have a highly modified newage WRX from the same era and unless you're in the right frame of mind (committed and alert) it's quite a chore on B roads compared to more modern performance cars, the latest issue of Evo highlights this fact when they pair a WRX against an A45 AMG.

For those who knew the owner/car I wonder if he had DCCD and if so what setting he had it on as that will massively change the behaviour of the car round corners.

carl_w

6,417 posts

212 months

Wednesday 25th March
quotequote all
untakenname said:
For those who knew the owner/car I wonder if he had DCCD and if so what setting he had it on as that will massively change the behaviour of the car round corners.
It's a WR1 so it does have DCCD.

Krikkit

18,313 posts

135 months

Wednesday 25th March
quotequote all
V8RX7 said:
It's hard to say...

I would have been coming along the straight well into 3 figures and braked hard as soon as I couldn't see where the road went.

Certainly the poor road surface and bumps had an effect but as mentioned up there, you have to expect that

The highways dept want a kick up the arse though - to resurface a straight road and then NOT the corner beggars belief.
Countdown said:
I know that hindsight is 20:20 but you see the road markings disappear/the bend appearing. That alone would have had me braking.

If you cant see where the road is going and still carry on at the same speed that just seems foolish.
I agree with both of you, and most of the time I'd be in the right frame of mind to catch it, but I can definitely see a case where after a long day/early start I might be lulled into complacency on a well-surfaced straight.

As noted whoever maintains the road needs a kick up the arse - no signage to indicate a bend, no resurfacing despite the rubbish state of the inside edge, no smoothing of significant bumps.

xjay1337

14,673 posts

72 months

Wednesday 25th March
quotequote all
untakenname said:
From the analysis of that video I would say it's 70% the fault of the driver and 30% down to the road.

How would a modern car with ESP and traction control behave round the same corner?

I have a highly modified newage WRX from the same era and unless you're in the right frame of mind (committed and alert) it's quite a chore on B roads compared to more modern performance cars, the latest issue of Evo highlights this fact when they pair a WRX against an A45 AMG.

For those who knew the owner/car I wonder if he had DCCD and if so what setting he had it on as that will massively change the behaviour of the car round corners.
I don't think it's the roads fault at all.

Although I would have thought that car on decent tyres could have made that corner.

Doesn't matter - mistakes were made , prices were paid.

xjay1337

14,673 posts

72 months

Wednesday 25th March
quotequote all
having watched the interesting youtube video actually , it has made me wonder

If the subaru was actually a hyundai i20 and the driver was betty, 55 , grandmother , instead of darren, car enthusiast would they have been sent to prison.

Max_Torque

14,993 posts

171 months

Wednesday 25th March
quotequote all
carl_w said:
untakenname said:
For those who knew the owner/car I wonder if he had DCCD and if so what setting he had it on as that will massively change the behaviour of the car round corners.
It's a WR1 so it does have DCCD.
DCCD apportions torque, the driver had lifted and then braked, DCCD would therefore have no effect! Dynamic Stability control that uses the brakes to modify the vehicle yaw gain could have helped the car turn, but only if the driver had turned the handwheel and the tyres had grip, neither of which looked to be the case.

Falconer

70 posts

4 months

Wednesday 25th March
quotequote all
It was careless driving , nothing particularly wrong with car or road. The guy, for whatever reason wasn’t paying attention for a few seconds. We’ve all done it at sometime (anyone who says they haven’t is deluded), and 99.9% of the time you get away with it. This guy was unlucky and the biker even more unlucky unfortunately .

carinaman

15,020 posts

126 months

Wednesday 25th March
quotequote all
I'm looking forward to Part 2.