Subaru vs bike head on collision.
Discussion
I don't think the You Tube guy is saying it's not the guy's fault, he's just summarising what led to the incident and what we can all learn from it.
One thing I do disagree with is his mention of the national speed limit. On most rural roads, the national speed limit is an irrelevance, because before you get there you're limited by vision and grip. All the lanes around my house are NSL, but 60mph is not remotely safe on any of them in any conditions, even for a fleeting moment. I realise the You Tube guy then goes on to say that the preceding miles were flowing and safe for progress at the NSL, but that is no reason at all to treat what's ahead as safe for the NSL. We're not just talking about drifting to the other side of the road either; anything could be over that brow and past that limit point, even on your side of the road. I'm including bumps in the road, mud on the road etc, as well as the obvious such as a sheep, a stationary car, crazy overtaker etc.
The key lesson we can all learn from this is simply to not assume what's beyond limit points, blind brows or similar. I'm guilty of this, I'm sure we all are, but it's something we need to constantly remind ourselves of.
One thing I do disagree with is his mention of the national speed limit. On most rural roads, the national speed limit is an irrelevance, because before you get there you're limited by vision and grip. All the lanes around my house are NSL, but 60mph is not remotely safe on any of them in any conditions, even for a fleeting moment. I realise the You Tube guy then goes on to say that the preceding miles were flowing and safe for progress at the NSL, but that is no reason at all to treat what's ahead as safe for the NSL. We're not just talking about drifting to the other side of the road either; anything could be over that brow and past that limit point, even on your side of the road. I'm including bumps in the road, mud on the road etc, as well as the obvious such as a sheep, a stationary car, crazy overtaker etc.
The key lesson we can all learn from this is simply to not assume what's beyond limit points, blind brows or similar. I'm guilty of this, I'm sure we all are, but it's something we need to constantly remind ourselves of.
heebeegeetee said:
He doesn’t explain how most people drive around that typical country bend without a problem. Imo he gives the impression that it’s unlikely anyone would manage safely.
It may be that in most cases there isn't anyone coming the other wayA camera monitoring it for a few days would quickly determine the true picture.
V8RX7 said:
heebeegeetee said:
He doesn’t explain how most people drive around that typical country bend without a problem. Imo he gives the impression that it’s unlikely anyone would manage safely.
It may be that in most cases there isn't anyone coming the other wayA camera monitoring it for a few days would quickly determine the true picture.
V8RX7 said:
heebeegeetee said:
He doesn’t explain how most people drive around that typical country bend without a problem. Imo he gives the impression that it’s unlikely anyone would manage safely.
It may be that in most cases there isn't anyone coming the other wayA camera monitoring it for a few days would quickly determine the true picture.
The camera footage alone wouldn't offer much.
RobM77 said:
V8RX7 said:
heebeegeetee said:
He doesn’t explain how most people drive around that typical country bend without a problem. Imo he gives the impression that it’s unlikely anyone would manage safely.
It may be that in most cases there isn't anyone coming the other wayA camera monitoring it for a few days would quickly determine the true picture.
What were the common factors in those that did?
vonhosen said:
RobM77 said:
V8RX7 said:
heebeegeetee said:
He doesn’t explain how most people drive around that typical country bend without a problem. Imo he gives the impression that it’s unlikely anyone would manage safely.
It may be that in most cases there isn't anyone coming the other wayA camera monitoring it for a few days would quickly determine the true picture.
What were the common factors in those that did?
RobM77 said:
vonhosen said:
RobM77 said:
V8RX7 said:
heebeegeetee said:
He doesn’t explain how most people drive around that typical country bend without a problem. Imo he gives the impression that it’s unlikely anyone would manage safely.
It may be that in most cases there isn't anyone coming the other wayA camera monitoring it for a few days would quickly determine the true picture.
What were the common factors in those that did?
We wouldn't know without a lot further investigation into each case to find what commonalities exist in the input side of the equation to result in the output.
vonhosen said:
RobM77 said:
vonhosen said:
RobM77 said:
V8RX7 said:
heebeegeetee said:
He doesn’t explain how most people drive around that typical country bend without a problem. Imo he gives the impression that it’s unlikely anyone would manage safely.
It may be that in most cases there isn't anyone coming the other wayA camera monitoring it for a few days would quickly determine the true picture.
What were the common factors in those that did?
We wouldn't know without a lot further investigation into each case to find what commonalities exist in the input side of the equation to result in the output.
RobM77 said:
vonhosen said:
RobM77 said:
vonhosen said:
RobM77 said:
V8RX7 said:
heebeegeetee said:
He doesn’t explain how most people drive around that typical country bend without a problem. Imo he gives the impression that it’s unlikely anyone would manage safely.
It may be that in most cases there isn't anyone coming the other wayA camera monitoring it for a few days would quickly determine the true picture.
What were the common factors in those that did?
We wouldn't know without a lot further investigation into each case to find what commonalities exist in the input side of the equation to result in the output.
Being distracted means you can be travelling in a straight line at an unsafe speed.
Your present trumps anything in the future as far as you are concerned.
We don't know if it's distraction, mis-reading etc without investigating (which means talking & honesty from the 3 drivers).
Edited by vonhosen on Friday 27th March 13:46
With regard to driving too fast for the visibility available and driving over brows without knowing what's on the other side, there's a junction on the left just after that bend.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inMyhSDQX1w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inMyhSDQX1w
I am struggling with some of the views expressed here, there is only one cause - driver error.
Driving his own car so he should know it’s behaviour - how many people here have driven a Morris Minor on cross-ply tyres in the wet. You stay within the car’s limits.
Road - You drive based on what you can, and cannot, see in front of you. Clean? Level? gravel? Potholes . . . If the driver can’t handle them he is going too fast.
Many years ago there was a documentary about training TV police drivers, 3+ instructor hooning around at 100+ on public roads. At one point the instructor reminds them of their worst nightmare - meeting themselves coming the other way. Some on here need to think about that.
Driving his own car so he should know it’s behaviour - how many people here have driven a Morris Minor on cross-ply tyres in the wet. You stay within the car’s limits.
Road - You drive based on what you can, and cannot, see in front of you. Clean? Level? gravel? Potholes . . . If the driver can’t handle them he is going too fast.
Many years ago there was a documentary about training TV police drivers, 3+ instructor hooning around at 100+ on public roads. At one point the instructor reminds them of their worst nightmare - meeting themselves coming the other way. Some on here need to think about that.
vonhosen said:
RobM77 said:
vonhosen said:
RobM77 said:
vonhosen said:
RobM77 said:
V8RX7 said:
heebeegeetee said:
He doesn’t explain how most people drive around that typical country bend without a problem. Imo he gives the impression that it’s unlikely anyone would manage safely.
It may be that in most cases there isn't anyone coming the other wayA camera monitoring it for a few days would quickly determine the true picture.
What were the common factors in those that did?
We wouldn't know without a lot further investigation into each case to find what commonalities exist in the input side of the equation to result in the output.
Being distracted means you can be travelling in a straight line at an unsafe speed.
Your present trumps anything in the future as far as you are concerned.
We don't know if it's distraction, mis-reading etc without investigating (which means talking & honesty from the 3 drivers).
Edited by vonhosen on Friday 27th March 13:46
IJWS15 said:
I am struggling with some of the views expressed here, there is only one cause - driver error.
How many accidents have you had on the road?I've had a few and therefore know from experience accidents usually have multiple contributory factors. The last one was just before I renewed my RoSPA advanced test achieving a Silver. I've failed it once, but never got a Bronze grade. I did the RoSPA test as the IAM examiner mentioned the RoSPA test me when I passed my IAM test.
How many road accidents only have one contributory factor?
If you watch the video, the chap that made it does say in the first few minutes 'What can we learn from this accident'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpGb5LFzKtE&t=...
One of the issues raised is the bump in the road and the importance of suspension travel.
He also does a Mathematical diagram. I saw the Oxford University Press book for A-level Maths, it was Applied or Further Mathematics. One of the end of chapter exercises shows a drawing of a Motorcyclist going around a corner with the forces and angles. I remember similar diagrams in the various issues of Roadcraft I've seen. In Part 1 he trails Part 2 in which he says he'll cover what Roadcraft says about such bends.
What's so difficult to understand that other drivers and road users could learn from the accident and use that information to improve their driving, helping make them better, safer drivers?
Edited by carinaman on Friday 27th March 14:01
RobM77 said:
vonhosen said:
RobM77 said:
vonhosen said:
RobM77 said:
vonhosen said:
RobM77 said:
V8RX7 said:
heebeegeetee said:
He doesn’t explain how most people drive around that typical country bend without a problem. Imo he gives the impression that it’s unlikely anyone would manage safely.
It may be that in most cases there isn't anyone coming the other wayA camera monitoring it for a few days would quickly determine the true picture.
What were the common factors in those that did?
We wouldn't know without a lot further investigation into each case to find what commonalities exist in the input side of the equation to result in the output.
Being distracted means you can be travelling in a straight line at an unsafe speed.
Your present trumps anything in the future as far as you are concerned.
We don't know if it's distraction, mis-reading etc without investigating (which means talking & honesty from the 3 drivers).
Edited by vonhosen on Friday 27th March 13:46
This reminds me of a thread a few years back, where the poster lost control on a wet dual carriageway, and hit a stationary car on the grass bank that had done the same thing earlier. Standing water was the excuse given for the 2 cars coming to grief at exactly the same spot. The fact that probably thousands of other cars and trucks passed safely by wasn't relevant apparently.
blade7 said:
This reminds me of a thread a few years back, where the poster lost control on a wet dual carriageway, and hit a stationary car on the grass bank that had done the same thing earlier. Standing water was the excuse given for the 2 cars coming to grief at exactly the same spot. The fact that probably thousands of other cars and trucks passed safely by wasn't relevant apparently.
But thanks to the advent of the Dashcam we can see that many Dashcam users seem to get themselves into foreseeable situations that many mere mortals, not just PH Driving Gods, would have managed to avoid.Perhaps the video of this Impreza Driver taking out the motorcyclist confirms that point?
blade7 said:
This reminds me of a thread a few years back, where the poster lost control on a wet dual carriageway, and hit a stationary car on the grass bank that had done the same thing earlier. Standing water was the excuse given for the 2 cars coming to grief at exactly the same spot. The fact that probably thousands of other cars and trucks passed safely by wasn't relevant apparently.
Lotus Elan and Porsche 944 or 968?I actually drove past that after it happened. It was on the A14 near the M1/M6. Horrible day.
carinaman said:
But thanks to the advent of the Dashcam we can see that many Dashcam users seem to get themselves into foreseeable situations that many mere mortals, not just PH Driving Gods, would have managed to avoid.
Perhaps the video of this Impreza Driver taking out the motorcyclist confirms that point?
Maybe the court saw extended dashcam footage, suggesting there was more driving below the standard expected.Perhaps the video of this Impreza Driver taking out the motorcyclist confirms that point?
MJK 24 said:
blade7 said:
This reminds me of a thread a few years back, where the poster lost control on a wet dual carriageway, and hit a stationary car on the grass bank that had done the same thing earlier. Standing water was the excuse given for the 2 cars coming to grief at exactly the same spot. The fact that probably thousands of other cars and trucks passed safely by wasn't relevant apparently.
Lotus Elan and Porsche 944 or 968?I actually drove past that after it happened. It was on the A14 near the M1/M6. Horrible day.
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