Insurance no claims (legal?) conundrum

Insurance no claims (legal?) conundrum

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eshroom

Original Poster:

27 posts

25 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
I am in the unfortunate position of having got myself in a small fender bender. I had 10 years no claims and so never bothered protecting it, after all, what difference is there in the premium between 10 and 8 years (given you lose 2 years no claims when you have an accident)?

Little did I know, my insurer Coop Eco have a 5 year no claims maximum, after that they give no further discounts, and on this basis consider you to have dropped down to 3 years no claims.

Moving to a new insurer, I understand that for those insurers that go by this 5 year maximum, I would have to state 3 years no claims. But for insurers that recognise the full 10 year, can I tell them I have 8 years no claims (as by their rules, I would indeed have 8 years no claims)?

For the purposes of this post please refrain from saying Coop will only provide proof for 3, I know this. I'm just interested in people's thoughts as to whether according to some providers terms I would still have 8 years NC, regardless of whether I can prove it.

2 sMoKiN bArReLs

22,928 posts

184 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
eshroom said:
I would still have 8 years NC, regardless of whether I can prove it.
Very unlikely. In my experience they work from the documentation provided. Always worth a try though.

Electro1980

356 posts

88 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
eshroom said:
I am in the unfortunate position of having got myself in a small fender bender. I had 10 years no claims and so never bothered protecting it, after all, what difference is there in the premium between 10 and 8 years (given you lose 2 years no claims when you have an accident)?

Little did I know, my insurer Coop Eco have a 5 year no claims maximum, after that they give no further discounts, and on this basis consider you to have dropped down to 3 years no claims.

Moving to a new insurer, I understand that for those insurers that go by this 5 year maximum, I would have to state 3 years no claims. But for insurers that recognise the full 10 year, can I tell them I have 8 years no claims (as by their rules, I would indeed have 8 years no claims)?

For the purposes of this post please refrain from saying Coop will only provide proof for 3, I know this. I'm just interested in people's thoughts as to whether according to some providers terms I would still have 8 years NC, regardless of whether I can prove it.
You have answered your own question. Coop will only give you proof of no claims for 3 years, therefor you only have 3 years. Your next insurer will want to see the proof.

eshroom

Original Poster:

27 posts

25 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:
Very unlikely. In my experience they work from the documentation provided. Always worth a try though.
Yep, I get that, proving it is a separate thing altogether. Just interested to know whether I'd be breaking their terms by saying I had 8 years NCD, if under their terms my 10 years minus 2 for the accident leaves me with 8.

eshroom

Original Poster:

27 posts

25 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
eshroom said:
For the purposes of this post please refrain from saying Coop will only provide proof for 3, I know this. I'm just interested in people's thoughts as to whether according to some providers terms I would still have 8 years NC, regardless of whether I can prove it.
Electro1980 said:
You have answered your own question. Coop will only give you proof of no claims for 3 years, therefor you only have 3 years. Your next insurer will want to see the proof.
Understood, thanks, but question isn't about whether it can be proved or not.

stevensdrs

1,593 posts

149 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
You are clutching at straws OP. You can only put 3 years NCB on any new application as insurance companies will check with your previous insurer or ask to see proof from a renewal notice.

eshroom

Original Poster:

27 posts

25 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
stevensdrs said:
You are clutching at straws OP. You can only put 3 years NCB on any new application as insurance companies will check with your previous insurer or ask to see proof from a renewal notice.
Whether I can legally claim to have 8 years according to X company's terms and whether I can prove it are two different issues.

matt2911

30 posts

1 month

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
eshroom said:
Whether I can legally claim to have 8 years according to X company's terms and whether I can prove it are two different issues.
Problem is I doubt you will find a company who would accept your logic regardless of legality. And complaining to them when they don’t accept it won’t wash as you will simply referred to the terms you accepted when taking the policy. So it’s kind of a moot point really unfortunately.

Edit: the financial ombudsman seem to be happy with it as long as it was clear: https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/consumers/c...

Co-op lay it out fairly clearly on page 31 of their terms: https://www.co-opinsurance.co.uk/sites/g/files/nma...

Edited by matt2911 on Monday 13th January 18:41

eshroom

Original Poster:

27 posts

25 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
matt2911 said:
Problem is I doubt you will find a company who would accept your logic regardless of legality. And complaining to them when they don’t accept it won’t wash as you will simply referred to the terms you accepted when taking the policy. So it’s kind of a moot point really unfortunately.
My concern is if a claim needs to be made, will company X say I should have stated 3 years. I understand getting an insurer to accept my logic is a hurdle in itself, but that's not what concerns me.

Rick101

5,838 posts

99 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
eshroom said:
Little did I know, my insurer Coop Eco have a 5 year no claims maximum, after that they give no further discounts, and on this basis consider you to have dropped down to 3 years no claims.
This is pretty common knowledge for anybody that knows a bit about insurance or had read any of the numerous threads on here about it.
NCB is a bit of a game. You need to know how to play it to your best advantage.

In answer to your question. You now have 3 years. 10 yrs NCB minus two = 3 yrs NCB.

In future. Once you get to five, run up a second set.

Pica-Pica

6,497 posts

33 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
eshroom said:
Little did I know, my insurer Coop Eco have a 5 year no claims maximum, after that they give no further discounts, and on this basis consider you to have dropped down to 3 years no claim...
The trouble is, I am sure somewhere in your documentation it does show you that.

matt2911

30 posts

1 month

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
eshroom said:
My concern is if a claim needs to be made, will company X say I should have stated 3 years. I understand getting an insurer to accept my logic is a hurdle in itself, but that's not what concerns me.
Yes, and you’ll likely be required to pay the difference or accept a pro rata payout on your vehicle or potentially be pursued for the pro rata of amount of third party costs they will no longer cover. Assuming they don’t void it for misrepresentation - would depend on their terms.

Doesn’t seem worth it.

eshroom

Original Poster:

27 posts

25 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
Thanks. Good info! Lesson learnt, don't use coop, read terms more clearly. So annoying!

PAUL500

1,564 posts

195 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
NCD is just a marketing ploy, the bottom line is your next quotes will be based on you making a claim in the last 3 years anyway regardless of what ncd documentation you have.

You could try speaking to a broker at renewal and explain the situation, they may be able to wrangle a bit more discount from certain insurers.

matt2911

30 posts

1 month

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
The only silver lining (albeit small) is that if co-op are anything to go by then you could still get 65% discount with two years, which seems to be “only” around 10-15% below max.

Chris32345

452 posts

11 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
I think you are mixing up no claims discount with how many years no claims you have
You will continue to have x amount of no claims but they may o my offers you 3 years or whatever discount

Slow

4,715 posts

86 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
Ive had 2 insurance companies never ask me for proof of no claims so you could get lucky with that.

One even gave me a second set of no claims bonuses 2 years later despite my policy being not renewed and the car sold on. Had 5 and 4 years no claims after driving for 5 years.


eshroom

Original Poster:

27 posts

25 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
Slow said:
Ive had 2 insurance companies never ask me for proof of no claims so you could get lucky with that.

One even gave me a second set of no claims bonuses 2 years later despite my policy being not renewed and the car sold on. Had 5 and 4 years no claims after driving for 5 years.
That has also been my experience, hence the post. Quotes with 8 years NCD are about 25% for me than quotes with 3 years NCD. I just want to be confident in claiming I have 8 years NCD before having a go.

jonwm

1,331 posts

63 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
Slow said:
Ive had 2 insurance companies never ask me for proof of no claims so you could get lucky with that.

One even gave me a second set of no claims bonuses 2 years later despite my policy being not renewed and the car sold on. Had 5 and 4 years no claims after driving for 5 years.
I had this too, opted out my company car for a few months to run a lease down. Insurance mirrored my no claims on the second car (max 9 years) when the lease went back I cancelled and they emailed no claims proof from the second car with 9 years on. Its lapsed now as that was 2 years ago and have only had the 1 car since then but insurance just seems a total lottery.

Current renewal saw me declaring an sp30 and it jumped £70 yet comparison sites seemed to jump £100's.


Slow

4,715 posts

86 months

Monday 13th January
quotequote all
jonwm said:
Slow said:
Ive had 2 insurance companies never ask me for proof of no claims so you could get lucky with that.

One even gave me a second set of no claims bonuses 2 years later despite my policy being not renewed and the car sold on. Had 5 and 4 years no claims after driving for 5 years.
I had this too, opted out my company car for a few months to run a lease down. Insurance mirrored my no claims on the second car (max 9 years) when the lease went back I cancelled and they emailed no claims proof from the second car with 9 years on. Its lapsed now as that was 2 years ago and have only had the 1 car since then but insurance just seems a total lottery.

Current renewal saw me declaring an sp30 and it jumped £70 yet comparison sites seemed to jump £100's.
According to a less legal friend of mine he applied for insurance saying he had 7 years, canceled a week later and they provided him with proof of 7 years despite never having to show anything prior. He had 0 years.

System is crazily broken. My insurance went from £1800 at 18 to £900 when I was 19 with a sp30 for 6 points on a larger faster car. None of it makes sense.