Toyota confirms 2.0-litre Supra for Europe

Toyota confirms 2.0-litre Supra for Europe

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Discussion

DoubleD

10,218 posts

57 months

Tuesday 14th January
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snorkel sucker said:
If it was circa £30k and had a manual gearbox .. and Toyota decided to release it in the UK, I have little doubt they would make an absolute killing.

As it stands, with an auto 'box and a reasonable amount of power, it will merely sell well.

Opportunity missed.
£30k? The same as Golf?

9k rpm

170 posts

159 months

Tuesday 14th January
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mikey P 500 said:
Hope we do get it. The price of it could be guessed by looking at price gap between the Z4 models with same engines, I would expect it to be about £5k less than the 6 cylinder model. I guess main downside is less people currently tuning the 4 cylinder BMW engine so would take a while for the remap companies to catch up. Maybe this will come to UK when current gt86 reaches its end of life, which must be fairly soon at about 8 years old. Going by Toyota's track record for recent sports cars I think the GR86 replacement will still be a few years away.
There are a lot of companies tuning this engine as it’s found in the Mini Cooper S, JCW, BMW x20i, x25i, x30i, M135i (swap x for 1,2,3,4,5) so I don’t think they would take long to map this variant!

Sport220

147 posts

24 months

Tuesday 14th January
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1450 kg with driver and a full tank is pretty decent. Looks brilliant too

cerb4.5lee

13,346 posts

129 months

Tuesday 14th January
quotequote all
9k rpm said:
mikey P 500 said:
Hope we do get it. The price of it could be guessed by looking at price gap between the Z4 models with same engines, I would expect it to be about £5k less than the 6 cylinder model. I guess main downside is less people currently tuning the 4 cylinder BMW engine so would take a while for the remap companies to catch up. Maybe this will come to UK when current gt86 reaches its end of life, which must be fairly soon at about 8 years old. Going by Toyota's track record for recent sports cars I think the GR86 replacement will still be a few years away.
There are a lot of companies tuning this engine as it’s found in the Mini Cooper S, JCW, BMW x20i, x25i, x30i, M135i (swap x for 1,2,3,4,5) so I don’t think they would take long to map this variant!
Yes and if I wanted I could have another 100bhp out of my B48 Cooper S engine easy/cheaply enough from different companies.

I'm a bit surprised that they aren't offering this engine with a manual gearbox...with it being available in several applications with this engine.

Brian Fallon

33 posts

20 months

Tuesday 14th January
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This looks like a very interesting car and one I'd prefer over the 3 litre model. I'll be interested in the price, especially with the upgrades mentioned in the article. Toyota is on a bit of a roll.

Brian Fallon

33 posts

20 months

Tuesday 14th January
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This looks like a very interesting car and one I'd prefer over the 3 litre model. I'll be interested in the price, especially with the upgrades mentioned in the article. Toyota is on a bit of a roll.

AppleJuice

2,005 posts

34 months

Tuesday 14th January
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PH article said:
good news!
I see no Dacia Sandero

Limpet

3,555 posts

110 months

Tuesday 14th January
quotequote all
cerb4.5lee said:
9k rpm said:
mikey P 500 said:
Hope we do get it. The price of it could be guessed by looking at price gap between the Z4 models with same engines, I would expect it to be about £5k less than the 6 cylinder model. I guess main downside is less people currently tuning the 4 cylinder BMW engine so would take a while for the remap companies to catch up. Maybe this will come to UK when current gt86 reaches its end of life, which must be fairly soon at about 8 years old. Going by Toyota's track record for recent sports cars I think the GR86 replacement will still be a few years away.
There are a lot of companies tuning this engine as it’s found in the Mini Cooper S, JCW, BMW x20i, x25i, x30i, M135i (swap x for 1,2,3,4,5) so I don’t think they would take long to map this variant!
Yes and if I wanted I could have another 100bhp out of my B48 Cooper S engine easy/cheaply enough from different companies.

I'm a bit surprised that they aren't offering this engine with a manual gearbox...with it being available in several applications with this engine.
The B38, B48 and B58 are essentially all the same engine, but with different cylinder counts. About 60% of parts are common across the range, and they can all be built on the same production line with the same tooling.

Theoretically, the scope for tuning should be similar across the range as well.

J4CKO

28,938 posts

149 months

Tuesday 14th January
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Its sent Facebook into meltdown afresh because its not a 1994 Mk4 Turbo manual.

People forget most Supras were GTs with six cylinder NA engines, < 200 bhp and a dopey auto, they weren't averse to a 2.0 model back then either.

They go on about sacrilege to the Supra name like every Supra was some single turbo monster with 600 bhp.

I love the MK4 but they arent making any more, this 2.0 with 250 plus bhp will be pretty decent and fast enough for those who dont gravitate to the 3.0 or hanker after whatever Toyota may add to the range above the 3.0.

Totally agree a manual option would be good, there were noises about that happening.






Kolbenkopp

1,940 posts

100 months

Wednesday 15th January
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cerb4.5lee said:
I'm a bit surprised that they aren't offering this engine with a manual gearbox...with it being available in several applications with this engine.
It's the fecking accountants / market research. The commercial guys must keep the CO2 as low as possible -- easier with 8 gears. And the marketing folks will have come up with numbers that make a manual option even less attractive.

A shame really, personally I'm no big fan of the ZF8+B58 combo in a sporty car (for a fast saloon with a big fuel tank it's wonderful). The auto might actually work better with the less powerful 4 pot. But the ideal would really be Supra shape at GT86 weight -- courtesy of a FI four pot + stick shift.

What I find a bit odd is how little they let their hair loose with the Supra compared to the totally bonkers exercise that is the Yaris GR...




AussieFozzy

125 posts

77 months

Wednesday 15th January
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Kolbenkopp said:
It's the fecking accountants / market research. The commercial guys must keep the CO2 as low as possible -- easier with 8 gears. And the marketing folks will have come up with numbers that make a manual option even less attractive.

A shame really, personally I'm no big fan of the ZF8+B58 combo in a sporty car (for a fast saloon with a big fuel tank it's wonderful). The auto might actually work better with the less powerful 4 pot. But the ideal would really be Supra shape at GT86 weight -- courtesy of a FI four pot + stick shift.

What I find a bit odd is how little they let their hair loose with the Supra compared to the totally bonkers exercise that is the Yaris GR...
It's not just that. You also need to pay to engineer the manual box and fit it to the car. There are also additional costs in manufacturing.
What it really comes down to is will putting a manual gearbox in it sell enough additional cars to cover the cost and make a significant profit.

Kenny Powers

2,484 posts

76 months

Wednesday 15th January
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Easily the worst looking car ever made.

DoubleD

10,218 posts

57 months

Wednesday 15th January
quotequote all
Kenny Powers said:
Easily the worst looking car ever made.
Its no beauty queen, but I certainly would go that far!

cerb4.5lee

13,346 posts

129 months

Wednesday 15th January
quotequote all
Kolbenkopp said:
cerb4.5lee said:
I'm a bit surprised that they aren't offering this engine with a manual gearbox...with it being available in several applications with this engine.
It's the fecking accountants / market research. The commercial guys must keep the CO2 as low as possible -- easier with 8 gears. And the marketing folks will have come up with numbers that make a manual option even less attractive.

A shame really, personally I'm no big fan of the ZF8+B58 combo in a sporty car (for a fast saloon with a big fuel tank it's wonderful). The auto might actually work better with the less powerful 4 pot. But the ideal would really be Supra shape at GT86 weight -- courtesy of a FI four pot + stick shift.

What I find a bit odd is how little they let their hair loose with the Supra compared to the totally bonkers exercise that is the Yaris GR...
Yes and I agree with all of that.

I drove a 530i with the B48 engine mated to the ZF8 and it felt like a completely different engine/car(which you'd hope though)...compared to the B48 in my Cooper S with a manual gearbox. It was very smooth and quiet whereas it feels less smooth in the Mini and a bit rough and ready with the manual gearbox. Autos are excellent at changing the feel of a car/engine for sure.

Also agree that Toyota just seem to be going with the flow with the Supra...yet they've gone mental with the Yaris GR!

cerb4.5lee

13,346 posts

129 months

Wednesday 15th January
quotequote all
DoubleD said:
Kenny Powers said:
Easily the worst looking car ever made.
Its no beauty queen, but I certainly would go that far!
Agree. I know it is subjective but I really like the shape of the new Supra and it has really drawn me in. I just predictably really want a manual gearbox offered with it...but I can't see it happening now though.

AmosMoses

3,586 posts

114 months

Wednesday 15th January
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I suspect this may be the one to have, with a few breathing mods i reckon you could get this to the same power as the i6 car.

Edited by AmosMoses on Wednesday 15th January 08:40

ChrisPackit

146 posts

72 months

Wednesday 15th January
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Urghh, a watered down Supra variant! What the Supra should have been is a Nissan GTR rival, so go bigger CC's not smaller. Having owned a 750hp MK4 Manual many years ago, the new Supra makes me sad... Sadly not a car I would consider in the future.

TheOrangePeril

395 posts

129 months

Wednesday 15th January
quotequote all
Although the looks are actually (very slowly) growing on me, and I've no doubt that it's a hoot to drive, I can't help but feel that Toyota have missed a trick here.

It looks as if they've tried to knock out all of the FT-1 concept styling cues on a body to fit the Z4 (which is obviously what they've done). In a way, it's a bit like one of those MR2-based Ferrari kits from the 90s...

Why not use the Lexus LC as a base? Strip out a hell of a lot of weight, sharpen up the suspension, make a racey interior. Then they could've stayed truer to the dimensions of the concept and carried over the styling far more compellingly. Surely would have also been more profitable to use their own, already in production, parts? They could charge more and get some thin air between the GT86 and Supra, leaving the latter as the true, high performance halo model that everybody was expecting. I'm sure there were also enough LFA bits/engineers knocking about that could do with finding a more profitable use, especially as so much money and development had already gone into that.

kuiper

127 posts

76 months

Wednesday 15th January
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Still no manual, still no order from me.

wab172uk

1,511 posts

176 months

Wednesday 15th January
quotequote all
samoht said:
The weights listed in Japan are 1410kg for the base 197hp four-pot SZ, 1450kg for the 258hp four-pot SZ-R, and 1520kg for the six-cylinder RZ. I wouldn't be expecting 1395kg anywhere.
https://toyotagazooracing.com/jp/gr/supra/specs/sp...

The weight balance of the six-pot Supra is 52/48 as weighed here

(also mentioned here https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a27456854/2020-t... )

If you assume the 70kg drop from the RZ to the SZ-R is over the front axle, then the four-pot SZ-R would have a true 50-50 weight balance.
How does a remapped ECU gain you 40kg?

197bhp is a bit poor TBH. They could have given us the 258 version. But, still a great car for those wanting the looks, without the full fat go!

I'd still have the Yaris GR-Four instead though.