People driving up your ar$e grrrr!
Discussion
As soon as you brake check someone you’re no better than they are tailgating.
Just slow down incrementally and they will get the message. Had a Mini glued to the back of me just last night after slowing from a 50 into a 30. It does appear that around this area minis are now owned by drivers who probably shouldn’t go out alone. Anyway. Once we got to 25 or so there was much gesticulating and as soon as the limit changed he overtook and that was that.
Until about a mile ahead and he turned into a housing estate. Obviously very urgent business.
Made me smile.
Just slow down incrementally and they will get the message. Had a Mini glued to the back of me just last night after slowing from a 50 into a 30. It does appear that around this area minis are now owned by drivers who probably shouldn’t go out alone. Anyway. Once we got to 25 or so there was much gesticulating and as soon as the limit changed he overtook and that was that.
Until about a mile ahead and he turned into a housing estate. Obviously very urgent business.
Made me smile.
rosetank said:
Had a Mini glued to the back of me just last night after slowing from a 50 into a 30. It does appear that around this area minis are now owned by drivers who probably shouldn’t go out alone. Anyway. Once we got to 25 or so there was much gesticulating and as soon as the limit changed he overtook and that was that.
Until about a mile ahead and he turned into a housing estate. Obviously very urgent business.
Made me smile.
csbUntil about a mile ahead and he turned into a housing estate. Obviously very urgent business.
Made me smile.
uncleluck said:
I used to do this and my GF tried it once. She was on a dual carriageway and some t
t was tailgating here rather than just going past (and she was a good confident driver so sure she’d have been going well anyway and was in either an Impreza or some other Jap turbo). She brake checked him to make a point he was way too close and it turned him into complete road rage nutter!
Got alongside her shouting all the names under the sun, got in front of her, tried to get out at the roundabout etc. She drove to her parents house and he followed her all the way giving abuse and he was out his car , pulling on her handle like he was going to beat her up. This is a small woman who at the time was 8 months pregnant and he didn’t give a damn! He was going bananas and her dad came out and eventually the bloke went after he was told the police were coming.
Often wonder what he’d actually have done to a young lady 8 months pregnant if she’d got out the car! Considering he’d shouted and road raged for a good 15 minutes I can’t imagine it’d have been for anything other than beating her up!
From my point of view - she took it upon herself to escalate the situation, she knew she was an 8 months pregnant woman - he just knew someone tried to damage his car / hurt him.t was tailgating here rather than just going past (and she was a good confident driver so sure she’d have been going well anyway and was in either an Impreza or some other Jap turbo). She brake checked him to make a point he was way too close and it turned him into complete road rage nutter!Got alongside her shouting all the names under the sun, got in front of her, tried to get out at the roundabout etc. She drove to her parents house and he followed her all the way giving abuse and he was out his car , pulling on her handle like he was going to beat her up. This is a small woman who at the time was 8 months pregnant and he didn’t give a damn! He was going bananas and her dad came out and eventually the bloke went after he was told the police were coming.
Often wonder what he’d actually have done to a young lady 8 months pregnant if she’d got out the car! Considering he’d shouted and road raged for a good 15 minutes I can’t imagine it’d have been for anything other than beating her up!
It is entirely likely he'd have hit her, the lesson here is if you choose to gamble, you'd better make sure you know what you're gambling for.
I don't understand tail gaters or drivers who routinely exercise their rights to drive excessively below the speed limit and thus impede other road users.
Tail gaters = let them pass when safe to do so, if it's a single carriage way I find waving works (I used to brake test but that just made me as a big a plank as the guy sniffing the bumper).
Road trundler = over take when safe to do so, pull in, carry on with your day. If this driver insists on having a trundle in the outside lane leaving other lanes clear, they're clearly just wanting other drivers to undertake them for some perverse thrill only they understand.
Tail gaters = let them pass when safe to do so, if it's a single carriage way I find waving works (I used to brake test but that just made me as a big a plank as the guy sniffing the bumper).
Road trundler = over take when safe to do so, pull in, carry on with your day. If this driver insists on having a trundle in the outside lane leaving other lanes clear, they're clearly just wanting other drivers to undertake them for some perverse thrill only they understand.
Travelling south through the Scottish Borders earlier this week. The section of the A68 that goes up high around Soutra Ailse for those that know it. On Wednesday it was covered in snow (actual snow where the whole road is white, an inch or two in places) and still snowing heavily on and off. It's relatively steep up an down so I was leaving a fairly constant maybe 150m (perhaps more) to the car in front. I could just about see that the car in front of them was a similar distance apart. Speeds were between 30 and 45. Car behind me sat between 10 and 20m behind me and an articulated lorry was a similar distance back from him.
Every time I eased off for bends I could see the guys eyes on stalks behind me as he had to get on the brakes and realised there wasn't much happening. And each time he'd back off a bit and then 30 seconds later be right back behind me again. My bigger worry was the truck but there wasn't that much I could do as the only lay-bys had deep snow in them. The road is plenty wide enough for either of them to overtake but I don't think that was the agenda at all. I don't think it's normally aggression, just a lack of common sense. But either way, nobody is winning from that situation.
Every time I eased off for bends I could see the guys eyes on stalks behind me as he had to get on the brakes and realised there wasn't much happening. And each time he'd back off a bit and then 30 seconds later be right back behind me again. My bigger worry was the truck but there wasn't that much I could do as the only lay-bys had deep snow in them. The road is plenty wide enough for either of them to overtake but I don't think that was the agenda at all. I don't think it's normally aggression, just a lack of common sense. But either way, nobody is winning from that situation.
V8RX7 said:
From my point of view - she took it upon herself to escalate the situation, she knew she was an 8 months pregnant woman - he just knew someone tried to damage his car / hurt him.
It is entirely likely he'd have hit her, the lesson here is if you choose to gamble, you'd better make sure you know what you're gambling for.
How is tapping the brake pedal to flash the lights "trying to damage his car / hurt him"?It is entirely likely he'd have hit her, the lesson here is if you choose to gamble, you'd better make sure you know what you're gambling for.
It's the following car's responsibility to keep a safe distance - if you run into the back of me it's your own fault for driving like a wally, for anything short of a full panic stop.
I had this once with a C.A.R.S recovery truck sat very close behind me in a 30 zone, so I tapped the brakes a bit to light them up but not slow down which seemed to do the trick for a second until he got back up close again, pulled up at the traffic lights which were red and looked in my mirror to see the driver whip his seat belt off and jump out.
Wound down my window and he came running over ranting away and said something like "That's a 7.5 ton truck, if you brake too hard Ill go right through you!"
I pointed out that was precisely my point in trying to get him to back off as if I needed to do an emergency stop he would have no chance to avoid hitting me, this shut him up just as the lights changed so I drove off and left him standing in the street mad/confused.
tt
Wound down my window and he came running over ranting away and said something like "That's a 7.5 ton truck, if you brake too hard Ill go right through you!"
I pointed out that was precisely my point in trying to get him to back off as if I needed to do an emergency stop he would have no chance to avoid hitting me, this shut him up just as the lights changed so I drove off and left him standing in the street mad/confused.
t
tHad a few yesterday on the M40 evening rush hour. 3 lanes moving between 60 & 75.
I do use lanes correctly - lane 1 as much as possible, 2 to overtake and into 3 when 2 gets too slow.
If I can see someone coming up behind and being sensible, I move back to 2 as soon as I've passed the slower traffic.... but, if the person behind decides to tailgate me, I still move over - extremely slowly. It's amazing how long it can take to drift from L3 to L2. Doesn't achieve anything, but always makes me smile as the finally manage to accelerate past, only to slam their brakes on as they come up to the tailgate of the next cars in L3
I do use lanes correctly - lane 1 as much as possible, 2 to overtake and into 3 when 2 gets too slow.
If I can see someone coming up behind and being sensible, I move back to 2 as soon as I've passed the slower traffic.... but, if the person behind decides to tailgate me, I still move over - extremely slowly. It's amazing how long it can take to drift from L3 to L2. Doesn't achieve anything, but always makes me smile as the finally manage to accelerate past, only to slam their brakes on as they come up to the tailgate of the next cars in L3
Lazermilk said:
I had this once with a C.A.R.S recovery truck sat very close behind me in a 30 zone, so I tapped the brakes a bit to light them up but not slow down which seemed to do the trick for a second until he got back up close again, pulled up at the traffic lights which were red and looked in my mirror to see the driver whip his seat belt off and jump out.
Wound down my window and he came running over ranting away and said something like "That's a 7.5 ton truck, if you brake too hard Ill go right through you!"
I pointed out that was precisely my point in trying to get him to back off as if I needed to do an emergency stop he would have no chance to avoid hitting me, this shut him up just as the lights changed so I drove off and left him standing in the street mad/confused.
tt
Much as I agree with the principle and your point, when I was learning I was taught to lift off and decelerate to a speed where the distance becomes safe and let them overtake where necessary. Never even try to make a point as it will be misinterpreted. The problem is some mouth breathers get closer as you do that.Wound down my window and he came running over ranting away and said something like "That's a 7.5 ton truck, if you brake too hard Ill go right through you!"
I pointed out that was precisely my point in trying to get him to back off as if I needed to do an emergency stop he would have no chance to avoid hitting me, this shut him up just as the lights changed so I drove off and left him standing in the street mad/confused.
t
tI find a bit of gentle speed modulation can encourage such drivers to leave a bigger gap without them thinking you are criticising their driving.
donkmeister said:
Lazermilk said:
I had this once with a C.A.R.S recovery truck sat very close behind me in a 30 zone, so I tapped the brakes a bit to light them up but not slow down which seemed to do the trick for a second until he got back up close again, pulled up at the traffic lights which were red and looked in my mirror to see the driver whip his seat belt off and jump out.
Wound down my window and he came running over ranting away and said something like "That's a 7.5 ton truck, if you brake too hard Ill go right through you!"
I pointed out that was precisely my point in trying to get him to back off as if I needed to do an emergency stop he would have no chance to avoid hitting me, this shut him up just as the lights changed so I drove off and left him standing in the street mad/confused.
tt
Much as I agree with the principle and your point, when I was learning I was taught to lift off and decelerate to a speed where the distance becomes safe and let them overtake where necessary. Never even try to make a point as it will be misinterpreted. The problem is some mouth breathers get closer as you do that.Wound down my window and he came running over ranting away and said something like "That's a 7.5 ton truck, if you brake too hard Ill go right through you!"
I pointed out that was precisely my point in trying to get him to back off as if I needed to do an emergency stop he would have no chance to avoid hitting me, this shut him up just as the lights changed so I drove off and left him standing in the street mad/confused.
t
tI find a bit of gentle speed modulation can encourage such drivers to leave a bigger gap without them thinking you are criticising their driving.
jchesh said:
There's nothing childish or petulant about getting (quietly and calmly) irritated with a driver who refuses to exceed 50 mph when all pertinent factors except their own preference allow them to drive at 60. They may be within their rights; they're also within their rights to drive at 30; but that doesn't mean it's not slightly selfish if they do so but also refuse to pull over when safe to allow people following them to pass.
Sadly, the roads in Britain are mostly so crowded most of the time that anyone driving a car is in effect part of a train, or if you like a fluid in a pipe, rather than a lone agent whose personal speed preferences have little effect on anyone else. I think for the purposes of this point, we are not talking about an idyllic situation of a nearly empty road in the countryside where overtaking someone going below the limit is easy, but rather about the typical scenario most of the time where overtaking (if in a car) is pretty tricky because of the number of cars on one's own and the other side of the road. Driving at 3/4 of the speed limit for no reason other than one's whim or mood means that one's personal preference, rather than external and legal factors, is dictating the speed of a moderate to large number of other road users.
I find it a bit silly that someone would get 'quietly and calmly irritated' by the driver infront 'refusing' to travel at more than 50mph in a 60 zone. Perhaps they know their own reaction times / comfort zone / driving capabilities better than you do. Sadly, the roads in Britain are mostly so crowded most of the time that anyone driving a car is in effect part of a train, or if you like a fluid in a pipe, rather than a lone agent whose personal speed preferences have little effect on anyone else. I think for the purposes of this point, we are not talking about an idyllic situation of a nearly empty road in the countryside where overtaking someone going below the limit is easy, but rather about the typical scenario most of the time where overtaking (if in a car) is pretty tricky because of the number of cars on one's own and the other side of the road. Driving at 3/4 of the speed limit for no reason other than one's whim or mood means that one's personal preference, rather than external and legal factors, is dictating the speed of a moderate to large number of other road users.
Edited by jchesh on Wednesday 12th February 17:12
Indeed perhaps by bullying them to drive faster you may end up causing them to do something stupid.
Not everyone has PH hero-levels of driving confidence, you know. My brother for example has to cope without the use of the pedals and certain junctions can take quite a bit more time and care than usual. Meanwhile driving god behind (usually in a BMW) goes apoplectic.
And your second paragraph is pretty much self-defeating.
Trying to overtake a slower vehicle when there are plenty of cars on both sides of the road is largely pointless, as (in the UK at least) it all compresses at the next traffic light / roundabout / congested point / speed limit, and you simply end up one carriage forward in the 'train' that you refer to.
Perhaps slicing 2 seconds off your journey time, at best.
AW111 said:
How is tapping the brake pedal to flash the lights "trying to damage his car / hurt him"?
It's the following car's responsibility to keep a safe distance - if you run into the back of me it's your own fault for driving like a wally, for anything short of a full panic stop.
PerceptionIt's the following car's responsibility to keep a safe distance - if you run into the back of me it's your own fault for driving like a wally, for anything short of a full panic stop.
How you perceive what you are doing and how they perceive what you are doing may be totally different
As might what you consider to be a reasonable response compared to theirs.
dan98 said:
I find it a bit silly that someone would get 'quietly and calmly irritated' by the driver infront 'refusing' to travel at more than 50mph in a 60 zone. Perhaps they know their own reaction times / comfort zone / driving capabilities better than you do.
Indeed perhaps by bullying them to drive faster you may end up causing them to do something stupid.
Not everyone has PH hero-levels of driving confidence, you know. My brother for example has to cope without the use of the pedals and certain junctions can take quite a bit more time and care than usual. Meanwhile driving god behind (usually in a BMW) goes apoplectic.
And your second paragraph is pretty much self-defeating.
Trying to overtake a slower vehicle when there are plenty of cars on both sides of the road is largely pointless, as (in the UK at least) it all compresses at the next traffic light / roundabout / congested point / speed limit, and you simply end up one carriage forward in the 'train' that you refer to.
Perhaps slicing 2 seconds off your journey time, at best.
Irritation is generally an involuntary reaction, so the 'quietly and calmly' meant that one handles the irritation in a mature and short-lived way rather than letting it escalate into a childish tantrum (manifested as tailgating or whatever). Of course some thought and discussion (like this one) on the matter can help to improve one's attitude and reduce the irritation one feels at being what feels like needlessly held up.Indeed perhaps by bullying them to drive faster you may end up causing them to do something stupid.
Not everyone has PH hero-levels of driving confidence, you know. My brother for example has to cope without the use of the pedals and certain junctions can take quite a bit more time and care than usual. Meanwhile driving god behind (usually in a BMW) goes apoplectic.
And your second paragraph is pretty much self-defeating.
Trying to overtake a slower vehicle when there are plenty of cars on both sides of the road is largely pointless, as (in the UK at least) it all compresses at the next traffic light / roundabout / congested point / speed limit, and you simply end up one carriage forward in the 'train' that you refer to.
Perhaps slicing 2 seconds off your journey time, at best.
Not sure about other people's 'comfort', but if their reaction times and driving capabilities, as you say, mean that they can't drive faster than 50 mph on a road and in conditions that allow it then they should not be driving.
I think you misunderstand my second paragraph – I absolutely agree that it is pointless overtaking on busy roads (when in a car – on a motorbike you definitely can make progress), so my point was that, since this is the case, it is selfish to unnecessarily drive at a speed that is at odds with the overall flow of traffic. Emphasis on unnecessarily!
As a side note, I am convinced that many people who drive at 50 mph when the speed limit and conditions allow 60 do so because they think that the speed limit is 50 on single carriageways.
Edited by jchesh on Friday 14th February 17:13
jchesh said:
Irritation is generally an involuntary reaction, so the 'quietly and calmly' meant that one handles the irritation in a mature and short-lived way rather than letting it escalate into a childish tantrum (manifested as tailgating or whatever). Of course some thought and discussion (like this one) on the matter can help to improve one's attitude and reduce the irritation one feels at being what feels like needlessly held up.
Not sure about other people's 'comfort', but if their reaction times and driving capabilities, as you say, mean that they can't drive faster than 50 mph on a road and in conditions that allow it then they should not be driving.
I think you misunderstand my second paragraph – I absolutely agree that it is pointless overtaking on busy roads (when in a car – on a motorbike you definitely can make progress), so my point was that, since this is the case, it is selfish to unnecessarily drive at a speed that is at odds with the overall flow of traffic. Emphasis on unnecessarily!
As a side note, I am convinced that many people who drive at 50 mph when the speed limit and conditions allow 60 do so because they think that the speed limit is 50 on single carriageways.
3 examples spring to mind.Not sure about other people's 'comfort', but if their reaction times and driving capabilities, as you say, mean that they can't drive faster than 50 mph on a road and in conditions that allow it then they should not be driving.
I think you misunderstand my second paragraph – I absolutely agree that it is pointless overtaking on busy roads (when in a car – on a motorbike you definitely can make progress), so my point was that, since this is the case, it is selfish to unnecessarily drive at a speed that is at odds with the overall flow of traffic. Emphasis on unnecessarily!
As a side note, I am convinced that many people who drive at 50 mph when the speed limit and conditions allow 60 do so because they think that the speed limit is 50 on single carriageways.
Edited by jchesh on Friday 14th February 17:13
- My brother as I mentioned doesn't use the pedals, making reaction times a bit slower and certain manoeuvres more tricky. For this reason he takes his time along windy A and B roads.
- My mother (74) who loves driving but has no desire to rush through her remaining days as quickly as humanly possible. Her Fiat500 is pretty gutless and requires lots of fiddling around with the gears to drive quickly, especially uphill.
- German friend, perfectly happy to drive >150mph on the Autobahn, but far less familiar on RHD and UK roads, so chooses to allow quite a decent margin of error, especially on minor and country roads.
Do you think they should be pressurised to travel at the maximum speed limit wherever you deem it necessary to do so?
Presumably if you arrived behind one of these drivers at 10mph below the speed limit, you'd assume they were being unnecessarily selfish? If not, then how are you arriving at that judgement when you know nothing about them?
Had a corker today, young female in some kind of small Fiat suddenly appears 3ft behind me in a 30. I was going over the speed limit as was everyone in the queue ahead but no chance of an overtake. Lost her on a mini roundabout, but she is back on my bumper again so I slowed to the limit. As we go to the 40 I pulled away and sat at the limit, so she is 3ft away again. I start slowing up and picking up speed, as I drive a Leaf no brake lights. She starts shaking her head but continues to drive very closely, so we continue this fiasco. Finally she goes right, and I had great pleasure in slowing before the junction to inconvenience her which was petty but I could not understand why she would want to drive so close when it could not gain her any time at all.
dan98 said:
Presumably if you arrived behind one of these drivers at 10mph below the speed limit, you'd assume they were being unnecessarily selfish? If not, then how are you arriving at that judgement when you know nothing about them?
One might arrive at that conclusion if they didn't pull over, once they had a queue behind them.V8RX7 said:
dan98 said:
Presumably if you arrived behind one of these drivers at 10mph below the speed limit, you'd assume they were being unnecessarily selfish? If not, then how are you arriving at that judgement when you know nothing about them?
One might arrive at that conclusion if they didn't pull over, once they had a queue behind them.But...perhaps I should have been clearer about the type of situation I meant. I don't mean someone who wants to drive in a more relaxed fashion on what might be called a slightly 'challenging' road, with plenty of hazards and not great visibility, thus preventing someone following who wants to from 'having fun'; no, I'm talking about the drivers (and we *all* have seen them because they're everywhere) who do 50 on a wide, open, largely straight single-carriageway trunk A-road where if the law allowed it would be genuinely fine to do 70. I'm convinced that actually the majority of these are not doing this out of choice but because they think 50 is the speed limit.
The examples you (dan98) cite should all be able to drive at 60 where safe on a wide single-carriageway trunk road; as far as I can tell the reasons for their quite justifiably taking it easy on smaller roads would surely not be relevant on a wide, straight trunk road. Even a small Fiat 500 is completely capable of maintaining 60 up anything but really quite a steep hill.
I know there is a fair bit of subjectivity here, but I do find it pretty easy to distinguish between people who are simply driving more cautiously than me (and therefore probably slightly slower in any given situation), and those who both drive with a general lack of caution and finesse, yet will absolutely not exceed 50 on a single carriageway. I've been driven by one, in fact: an ex-colleague who drove at 40 everywhere through town and ignored lane markings, yet once we were out on a large trunk road south of where I live (the A41 in Cheshire to be precise) he never once exceeded 50 and spent most of the journey gazing around and not watching the road ahead. A couple of weeks later (having sworn never to be driven by him again), he jumped a red light in town and nearly took me out on my motorbike. So there are these guys, and also those who, I'm convinced, think single carriageways carry a 50 mph limit. What they think the NSL signs and the 50 signs are for, I've absolutely no idea...
Edited by jchesh on Friday 14th February 20:44
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