RE: Europe denied new 387hp Supra by emissions rules

RE: Europe denied new 387hp Supra by emissions rules

Author
Discussion

Dynion Araf Uchaf

2,395 posts

175 months

Sunday 16th February
quotequote all
irocfan said:
how would you not be able to have a grey import? Look at the Yank car scene over here, one would imagine that 90% of those were grey and don't meet EU regs...
I looked into this last year for a JDM spec car. Firstly the rules state that if the car is under 10 years old it needs to be compliant with comparable EU specs, i.e have a certificate of conformity These may be issued by the equivalent country, so USA will have a version, as does Japan, with the aim that if it reaches a certain Japanese standard it meets the equivalent EU standard. Most manufacturers will provide this if requested, generally by the importing agent - e.g. Toyota GB homologation office. However not all manufacturers will provide this info - e.g. Nissan. In the case of a mainstream unmodified car e.g. standard Toyota Supra you will be able to import it. However in this instance the car has been excluded for export into Europe due to either too high emissions or some fleet average issue. The manufacturer has to provide a method by which this car cannot be imported anyway by individuals so at a guess its type designation number (TDN) will be missing off the certificate of conformity and will only be made available on request, and that is at the importers (Toyota GB) discretion. So I would suspect that this car will not be importable. A little like post prod modified Nissan's - e.g. NISMO, or STI spec Scooby's. These cannot be imported (if less than 10 years old) as they are modified from standard, and even though they do confirm to EU regs the manufacturer's won't release the data.

Also bear in mind that VOSA are an official government agency and as of yet no one has found a way to add a TDN to a CofC with written documentary evidence that VOSA will accept. You can't over type the CofC, or the export doc and you can't send a copy of an email from the manufacturer to VOSA stating it is compliant. You'd probably have to go back to Japan in this case and get the manufacturer to reissue the CofC and then update the export certificate. Manufacturers have better things to do!

As I said I looked very hard at importing a NISMO Note and even though I have contacts within Nissan, I still couldn't get it done.

There are no issues when the car is over 10 years old, so at that point you can import what you want.

tommy1973s

326 posts

123 months

Sunday 16th February
quotequote all
Or, to put it another way, Toyota offloads old polluting engine on Trump-land.

irocfan

22,535 posts

142 months

Sunday 16th February
quotequote all
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
irocfan said:
how would you not be able to have a grey import? Look at the Yank car scene over here, one would imagine that 90% of those were grey and don't meet EU regs...
I looked into this last year for a JDM spec car. Firstly the rules state that if the car is under 10 years old it needs to be compliant with comparable EU specs, i.e have a certificate of conformity These may be issued by the equivalent country, so USA will have a version, as does Japan, with the aim that if it reaches a certain Japanese standard it meets the equivalent EU standard. Most manufacturers will provide this if requested, generally by the importing agent - e.g. Toyota GB homologation office. However not all manufacturers will provide this info - e.g. Nissan. In the case of a mainstream unmodified car e.g. standard Toyota Supra you will be able to import it. However in this instance the car has been excluded for export into Europe due to either too high emissions or some fleet average issue. The manufacturer has to provide a method by which this car cannot be imported anyway by individuals so at a guess its type designation number (TDN) will be missing off the certificate of conformity and will only be made available on request, and that is at the importers (Toyota GB) discretion. So I would suspect that this car will not be importable. A little like post prod modified Nissan's - e.g. NISMO, or STI spec Scooby's. These cannot be imported (if less than 10 years old) as they are modified from standard, and even though they do confirm to EU regs the manufacturer's won't release the data.

Also bear in mind that VOSA are an official government agency and as of yet no one has found a way to add a TDN to a CofC with written documentary evidence that VOSA will accept. You can't over type the CofC, or the export doc and you can't send a copy of an email from the manufacturer to VOSA stating it is compliant. You'd probably have to go back to Japan in this case and get the manufacturer to reissue the CofC and then update the export certificate. Manufacturers have better things to do!

As I said I looked very hard at importing a NISMO Note and even though I have contacts within Nissan, I still couldn't get it done.
There are no issues when the car is over 10 years old, so at that point you can import what you want.
thumbup

Jimbeaux

32,187 posts

183 months

Sunday 16th February
quotequote all
tommy1973s said:
Or, to put it another way, Toyota offloads old polluting engine on Trump-land.
To put it yet another way, Toyota sent the US it’s engine at its factory potential and sent the U.K. a muted version so as to appease the enviro-jihadists. biggrin

1430

64 posts

69 months

Sunday 16th February
quotequote all
VeeFource said:
Exactly. I cycle 12 miles each way to and from work and not having kids largely because there's already too many people. But I'm not allowed this car if I want it despite having to pay tax on the extra fuel consumption? Thank you red tape Britain!

Oh but at least I can join in with all the lazy Britons chugging about all day in their diesel Peugeots for everything including going to the shop 50 yards up the road to buy a 2 stroke leaf blower. And then burn all the leaves. Followed by having 4 kids. Brilliant.

Edited by VeeFource on Friday 14th February 18:43
Actually birth rates are down in Britain with the native population,
The powers that be tell you... "Don't have children, save the planet"
while at the same time saying "We need more immigration to care for our aging population"

Africa is going to be overpopulated, the birth rates are insanely high and China is the biggest polluter. We are insignificant in climate change.
A real environmentalist do would end immigration and foreign aid.

jason61c

3,385 posts

126 months

Sunday 16th February
quotequote all
VeeFource said:
Exactly. I cycle 12 miles each way to and from work and not having kids largely because there's already too many people. But I'm not allowed this car if I want it despite having to pay tax on the extra fuel consumption? Thank you red tape Britain!

Oh but at least I can join in with all the lazy Britons chugging about all day in their diesel Peugeots for everything including going to the shop 50 yards up the road to buy a 2 stroke leaf blower. And then burn all the leaves. Followed by having 4 kids. Brilliant.

Edited by VeeFource on Friday 14th February 18:43
cyclist. that explains it.

thatsprettyshady

1,133 posts

117 months

Sunday 16th February
quotequote all
EU cars have OPF(PPF) filters. US cars do not and IIRC neither do Japan. Those filters do sap power but not sure how much., so perhaps this is why the quicker version isn't coming here.

Some Gump

11,284 posts

138 months

Sunday 16th February
quotequote all
Wow, that design is 17 kinds of awful. Like a less resolved Marcos crossed with a gen 1 DPi.

VeeFource

993 posts

129 months

Monday 17th February
quotequote all
1430 said:
VeeFource said:
Exactly. I cycle 12 miles each way to and from work and not having kids largely because there's already too many people. But I'm not allowed this car if I want it despite having to pay tax on the extra fuel consumption? Thank you red tape Britain!

Oh but at least I can join in with all the lazy Britons chugging about all day in their diesel Peugeots for everything including going to the shop 50 yards up the road to buy a 2 stroke leaf blower. And then burn all the leaves. Followed by having 4 kids. Brilliant.

Edited by VeeFource on Friday 14th February 18:43
Actually birth rates are down in Britain with the native population,
The powers that be tell you... "Don't have children, save the planet"
while at the same time saying "We need more immigration to care for our aging population"

Africa is going to be overpopulated, the birth rates are insanely high and China is the biggest polluter. We are insignificant in climate change.
A real environmentalist do would end immigration and foreign aid.
My wife works as a carer at one of the 'better' care companies and most of their employees are immigrants simply because the job is below most British people that are at the calibre you need. It's £10/hour but you spend a good portion of the day driving around being paid 13p/mile and that's it, so it works out at less than minimum wage. So unless you're willing to be out at least 12 hours a day or be a live-in carer with a sparodic 4 hours off a day tops for £600/week it's hard to make enough money to live.

All very well saying we need more people to do it but really we need to actually pay people properly to do what can be a very demanding job in the first place.

Electro1980

477 posts

91 months

Monday 17th February
quotequote all
jason61c said:
VeeFource said:
Exactly. I cycle 12 miles each way to and from work and not having kids largely because there's already too many people. But I'm not allowed this car if I want it despite having to pay tax on the extra fuel consumption? Thank you red tape Britain!

Oh but at least I can join in with all the lazy Britons chugging about all day in their diesel Peugeots for everything including going to the shop 50 yards up the road to buy a 2 stroke leaf blower. And then burn all the leaves. Followed by having 4 kids. Brilliant.

Edited by VeeFource on Friday 14th February 18:43
cyclist. that explains it.
No, I’m a cyclist and I think he’s a dick too. I’d love to be able to spend 2 hours every day cycling (when you include the time spent packing and changing), but unfortunately like most people I have limited time, which is why most people drive. Personally I get the train, but recognise how lucky I am to have decent public transport.

aeropilot

20,031 posts

179 months

Monday 17th February
quotequote all
tommy1973s said:
Or, to put it another way, Toyota offloads old polluting engine on Trump-land.
Old polluting engine....!!

It's only been in production for 5 years....!!

Scootersp

1,216 posts

140 months

Monday 17th February
quotequote all
aeropilot said:
tommy1973s said:
Or, to put it another way, Toyota offloads old polluting engine on Trump-land.
Old polluting engine....!!

It's only been in production for 5 years....!!
and it's a BMW engine?

J4CKO

29,678 posts

152 months

Monday 17th February
quotequote all
Electro1980 said:
jason61c said:
VeeFource said:
Exactly. I cycle 12 miles each way to and from work and not having kids largely because there's already too many people. But I'm not allowed this car if I want it despite having to pay tax on the extra fuel consumption? Thank you red tape Britain!

Oh but at least I can join in with all the lazy Britons chugging about all day in their diesel Peugeots for everything including going to the shop 50 yards up the road to buy a 2 stroke leaf blower. And then burn all the leaves. Followed by having 4 kids. Brilliant.

Edited by VeeFource on Friday 14th February 18:43
cyclist. that explains it.
No, I’m a cyclist and I think he’s a dick too. I’d love to be able to spend 2 hours every day cycling (when you include the time spent packing and changing), but unfortunately like most people I have limited time, which is why most people drive. Personally I get the train, but recognise how lucky I am to have decent public transport.
Most people have limited time ?

Am sure a proportion do but a lot charge about like mad things and then plonk themselves in front of the telly for 5 hours and do zero exercise.

I see my neighbours drive a Discovery quarter of a mile to drop the kids off, see the other neighbour drive to get his paper on a Sunday morning, I have never, ever seen him leave the house and walk past his car.

Older chap next door, must be 80 or close to, rarely uses his car and walks or cycles everywhere, ok he has the time but he always has done.

It varies for all of us, but I think a lot of it is a lack of imagination and utter terror at getting damp or having to walk further than the car park.


VeeFource

993 posts

129 months

Monday 17th February
quotequote all
J4CKO said:
Electro1980 said:
jason61c said:
VeeFource said:
Exactly. I cycle 12 miles each way to and from work and not having kids largely because there's already too many people. But I'm not allowed this car if I want it despite having to pay tax on the extra fuel consumption? Thank you red tape Britain!

Oh but at least I can join in with all the lazy Britons chugging about all day in their diesel Peugeots for everything including going to the shop 50 yards up the road to buy a 2 stroke leaf blower. And then burn all the leaves. Followed by having 4 kids. Brilliant.

Edited by VeeFource on Friday 14th February 18:43
cyclist. that explains it.
No, I’m a cyclist and I think he’s a dick too. I’d love to be able to spend 2 hours every day cycling (when you include the time spent packing and changing), but unfortunately like most people I have limited time, which is why most people drive. Personally I get the train, but recognise how lucky I am to have decent public transport.
Most people have limited time ?

Am sure a proportion do but a lot charge about like mad things and then plonk themselves in front of the telly for 5 hours and do zero exercise.

I see my neighbours drive a Discovery quarter of a mile to drop the kids off, see the other neighbour drive to get his paper on a Sunday morning, I have never, ever seen him leave the house and walk past his car.

Older chap next door, must be 80 or close to, rarely uses his car and walks or cycles everywhere, ok he has the time but he always has done.

It varies for all of us, but I think a lot of it is a lack of imagination and utter terror at getting damp or having to walk further than the car park.
This was my point really though obviously not so well put. I totally get that I have more time what with not having kids and have zero issues with people that have no choice but to drive. In fact I'd rather be driving if all else was equal. But it's the fact so many people drive when they could and should be getting some exercise instead that bugs me. And because so many are lazy & always drive it means cars like this supra or even the 2.0 MX5 (now being limited in sales due to emissions fines) are becoming regulated out of reach.

llama

2 posts

109 months

Monday 17th February
quotequote all
I heard Greta Thunberg has one on order!

Rod200SX

7,149 posts

128 months

Monday 17th February
quotequote all
The b58 is making good power already just with MHD/other maps. Even my old N54 can get an extra 100HP just with an intake, decats & a flash.

Would be nice to have different power levels available but there's so much aftermarket support already for these that it isn't really necessary.

donteatpeople

523 posts

226 months

Monday 17th February
quotequote all
1430 said:
Actually birth rates are down in Britain with the native population,
The powers that be tell you... "Don't have children, save the planet"
while at the same time saying "We need more immigration to care for our aging population"

Africa is going to be overpopulated, the birth rates are insanely high and China is the biggest polluter. We are insignificant in climate change.
A real environmentalist do would end immigration and foreign aid.
China is the biggest total polluter but it also has the biggest population. If you look at emissions per capita China is a long way down the tables, even though we’re outsourcing a lot of our manufacturing emissions to them. We might be insignificant on the global stage but if we’re not doing what we can the probability of us persuading others to help will only get smaller.



Birth rates tend to drop as education for women increases, if an environmentalist was concerned about overpopulation in Africa the more appropriate response would be to increase foreign aid.

paulrockliffe

9,924 posts

179 months

Tuesday 18th February
quotequote all
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
I looked into this last year for a JDM spec car. Firstly the rules state that if the car is under 10 years old it needs to be compliant with comparable EU specs, i.e have a certificate of conformity These may be issued by the equivalent country, so USA will have a version, as does Japan, with the aim that if it reaches a certain Japanese standard it meets the equivalent EU standard. Most manufacturers will provide this if requested, generally by the importing agent - e.g. Toyota GB homologation office. However not all manufacturers will provide this info - e.g. Nissan. In the case of a mainstream unmodified car e.g. standard Toyota Supra you will be able to import it. However in this instance the car has been excluded for export into Europe due to either too high emissions or some fleet average issue. The manufacturer has to provide a method by which this car cannot be imported anyway by individuals so at a guess its type designation number (TDN) will be missing off the certificate of conformity and will only be made available on request, and that is at the importers (Toyota GB) discretion. So I would suspect that this car will not be importable. A little like post prod modified Nissan's - e.g. NISMO, or STI spec Scooby's. These cannot be imported (if less than 10 years old) as they are modified from standard, and even though they do confirm to EU regs the manufacturer's won't release the data.

Also bear in mind that VOSA are an official government agency and as of yet no one has found a way to add a TDN to a CofC with written documentary evidence that VOSA will accept. You can't over type the CofC, or the export doc and you can't send a copy of an email from the manufacturer to VOSA stating it is compliant. You'd probably have to go back to Japan in this case and get the manufacturer to reissue the CofC and then update the export certificate. Manufacturers have better things to do!

As I said I looked very hard at importing a NISMO Note and even though I have contacts within Nissan, I still couldn't get it done.

There are no issues when the car is over 10 years old, so at that point you can import what you want.
That's really interesting, thanks.

Once the manufacturer have washed their hands of it, what's stopping you bringing one in and putting it through the IVA process.

new666uk

162 posts

70 months

Tuesday 18th February
quotequote all
I'm clearly missing something here. Isn't this the same engine as in the UK M340 etc and makes ~380hp? Does that mean those will be culled by our EU friends?

Dynion Araf Uchaf

2,395 posts

175 months

Tuesday 18th February
quotequote all
paulrockliffe said:
That's really interesting, thanks.

Once the manufacturer have washed their hands of it, what's stopping you bringing one in and putting it through the IVA process.
what do you mean be 'washed their hands of it?'

You won't be able to get the car through the IVA without a certificate of conformity if the car is less then 10 years old. I.e. the government agency won't allow it to be declared road legal. You can still import one, but it would be an expensive track car. At 10 years old the rule is relaxed.

If you try and declare the car a home build which is where the Single vehicle type approval comes in they'd want to know the results for crash structures, air bags, emissions, so you'd have to test them on your car. Which would mean about 20 cars need to be pulled apart or crashed. Expensive! The manufacturer won't give you that info. And in any case it is covered by the TDN, which brings me back to my first point.

Edited by Dynion Araf Uchaf on Tuesday 18th February 19:26