How often does an ECU write a car off?
Discussion
I mean, I know they can be expensive compared to the price of an old car, but how often do they (not the MAF, not the injectors, the actual ECU) actually break, rendering the car inoperable?
I remember a lot of "oohhhh, it'll break, at least you can fix carbs and a whirlygig with a half brick and peice of string to get you 'ome!" - I say that as a guy who's most modern vehicle is from the mid-90's and runs on carbs, so no hate here.
Just saw a similar comment in the Defender thread along the lines of "all those ECUs going wrong!"
I remember a lot of "oohhhh, it'll break, at least you can fix carbs and a whirlygig with a half brick and peice of string to get you 'ome!" - I say that as a guy who's most modern vehicle is from the mid-90's and runs on carbs, so no hate here.
Just saw a similar comment in the Defender thread along the lines of "all those ECUs going wrong!"
You can recode 2nd hand Bmw ecu’s And companies like Ecu testing limited and BBa reman can repair some (most) Ecu problems.
Worst one I’ve had to fix was an E90 318 that fried it’s ecu for no apparent reason that one cost me about £600 to repair but Have repaired other E90 ecus for less than half that.
Worst one I’ve had to fix was an E90 318 that fried it’s ecu for no apparent reason that one cost me about £600 to repair but Have repaired other E90 ecus for less than half that.
I think it depends on who you get to fix them and how. The standard manufacturer approach of "replace the whole thing" can easily push a banger beyond economical repair, especially at main dealer parts markups and labour rates. However 90% of failures will be trivial sub-components (capacitors, usually) which can be replaced for peanuts; or failing that can be replaced with second-hand parts of little commercial value.
I've fixed several pieces of electronics of similar sort of complexity for total costs of <£5 which would have been completely uneconomical to repair commercially.
The same is true of lots of other components. One of the coils in our Octavia recently shorted and set fire to the wiring loom. If I'd taken it to a Skoda garage they'd probably have replaced the entire engine bay wiring loom and I dread to think what that would have cost. I bought a new plug for £12, cut the loom back beyond the damage and spliced the new plug onto it, replaced the coil pack and everything was fine.
I've fixed several pieces of electronics of similar sort of complexity for total costs of <£5 which would have been completely uneconomical to repair commercially.
The same is true of lots of other components. One of the coils in our Octavia recently shorted and set fire to the wiring loom. If I'd taken it to a Skoda garage they'd probably have replaced the entire engine bay wiring loom and I dread to think what that would have cost. I bought a new plug for £12, cut the loom back beyond the damage and spliced the new plug onto it, replaced the coil pack and everything was fine.
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 26th February 18:40
The Volvo ecu's are rather expensive to replace. Volvo code them to the VIN and use a pin code to prevent access to certain things.
There has been a breakthrough where a Volvo enthusiast has cracked a code on an ecu using some laptop hacking software allowing full access, this will open up a lot of door for repairs/modifications/cloning of ecu's.
There has been a breakthrough where a Volvo enthusiast has cracked a code on an ecu using some laptop hacking software allowing full access, this will open up a lot of door for repairs/modifications/cloning of ecu's.
They basically don't go wrong, if they do it is usually because they got wet, or some sort of well know issue with component failure on that particular board that can be easily repaired.
No one know what they'll be like very long term, the older ones might be 40 odd years old, but they'll be totally different tech to the ones that are 20 years old.
But even if it turns out they have a hard limit of say 50 years where they all start to become really flakey so spares will be hard to come by but there is plenty of hope.
If you look at something like megasquirt and speeduino these are open ECU platform where you can build yourself a drop in replacement for your origonal ecu. It is not a small undertaking as a DIY job even on a relatively low tech car from the 90s but people do do it,
At the moment you'd struggle with something a bit more modern because of all the safety systems, but give it another 10-20 years and they'll probably be a home tinker's job too.
By then compared to a job like fabricating an inlet manifold, throttle cable linkages and fuel pipes because there are none of the origonal carbs anywhere it will seem like a fairly simple job to install a custom ecu.
No one know what they'll be like very long term, the older ones might be 40 odd years old, but they'll be totally different tech to the ones that are 20 years old.
But even if it turns out they have a hard limit of say 50 years where they all start to become really flakey so spares will be hard to come by but there is plenty of hope.
If you look at something like megasquirt and speeduino these are open ECU platform where you can build yourself a drop in replacement for your origonal ecu. It is not a small undertaking as a DIY job even on a relatively low tech car from the 90s but people do do it,
At the moment you'd struggle with something a bit more modern because of all the safety systems, but give it another 10-20 years and they'll probably be a home tinker's job too.
By then compared to a job like fabricating an inlet manifold, throttle cable linkages and fuel pipes because there are none of the origonal carbs anywhere it will seem like a fairly simple job to install a custom ecu.
Many a Smart Roadster has been scrapped due to ECU (SAM unit) failure.
The entire board and fuses sit under the front scuttle panel. A useful access panel in the scuttle allows some access, but the seal and design are not watertight. Therefore, even from the factory, ECUs were getting waterlogged causing multiple electrical gremlins.
There are preventive measures which can be taken, better sealing and conformal coating the board.
The entire board and fuses sit under the front scuttle panel. A useful access panel in the scuttle allows some access, but the seal and design are not watertight. Therefore, even from the factory, ECUs were getting waterlogged causing multiple electrical gremlins.
There are preventive measures which can be taken, better sealing and conformal coating the board.
W221 S320
Cost me circa £5,000 on a new (gearbox?) ECU and all the associated labour, diagnostic and charges that went with it. This was in 2019, and the car was probably only worth £6-7,000. I had to take my logbook into the garage for them to scan and show to Mercedes Benz apparently when ordering in the new ECU as its somehow connected to the VIN or something or another. I'll never know if I had my pants down well and truly, or whether it really was a case of bad luck.
But I've owned it since 2010 (Its an 06 plate) and prior to this breakdown and one dodgy ABS sensor, its never ever put a foot wrong, I fixed it and its been trouble free motoring since. If it was any more of a troublesome car, I would have thought twice before spending such a large sum of money.
Cost me circa £5,000 on a new (gearbox?) ECU and all the associated labour, diagnostic and charges that went with it. This was in 2019, and the car was probably only worth £6-7,000. I had to take my logbook into the garage for them to scan and show to Mercedes Benz apparently when ordering in the new ECU as its somehow connected to the VIN or something or another. I'll never know if I had my pants down well and truly, or whether it really was a case of bad luck.
But I've owned it since 2010 (Its an 06 plate) and prior to this breakdown and one dodgy ABS sensor, its never ever put a foot wrong, I fixed it and its been trouble free motoring since. If it was any more of a troublesome car, I would have thought twice before spending such a large sum of money.
crofty1984 said:
I mean, I know they can be expensive compared to the price of an old car, but how often do they (not the MAF, not the injectors, the actual ECU) actually break, rendering the car inoperable?
I remember a lot of "oohhhh, it'll break, at least you can fix carbs and a whirlygig with a half brick and peice of string to get you 'ome!" - I say that as a guy who's most modern vehicle is from the mid-90's and runs on carbs, so no hate here.
Just saw a similar comment in the Defender thread along the lines of "all those ECUs going wrong!"
Honestly do people not realise that there are very smart, clever people (a lot of enthusiasts) who can do things very cheaply?I remember a lot of "oohhhh, it'll break, at least you can fix carbs and a whirlygig with a half brick and peice of string to get you 'ome!" - I say that as a guy who's most modern vehicle is from the mid-90's and runs on carbs, so no hate here.
Just saw a similar comment in the Defender thread along the lines of "all those ECUs going wrong!"
Sure if you walk into a Land Rover dealer and ask for an ECU for a Range Rover as an example, it could be very expensive.
Or ........ you can find a car that is breaking, or on Ebay, and re-code it.
I've had several ECU's swapped (mainly on the Scirocco) for various reasons. But none failed !
Pretty much every car can be re-coded quite easily, as long as you get the correct ECU (that is where many people fall over, even the same engines in the same models can have different ECU's from different years)
We even removed the immobiliser from one of the ECU's so we could just swap it in and out of other cars to test etc.
Usual failures are due to water ingress, or electrical cock up (eg doing something stupid with the battery) it's rare an ECU randomly fails.
As a side note -
Carbs are just annoying
FI is cleaner, easier to work on (IMO) , more accurate, more economical, more powerful, and easier to upgrade
some stuff some people do with laptops on modern cars is incredible.
Of course, the only car I was driving in the Mid 90's was my Little Tykes. so maybe it's a generational thing.
I've owned Motorcycles with carburettors. My memory was whenever it was cold , they struggled to start (did always get me going though) and one time during one commute home it was very, very cold (probably -2) and for some reason over 30% throttle the bike just stuttered and went to die. I suspected carb icing, but it didn't do it again so........
I do fondly recall my Dad's old Ford Escort having a HUGE choke handle though, it was always funny to see it sticking out of the dash like some dildo.
xjay1337 said:
Honestly do people not realise that there are very smart, clever people (a lot of enthusiasts) who can do things very cheaply?
Sure if you walk into a Land Rover dealer and ask for an ECU for a Range Rover as an example, it could be very expensive.
Or ........ you can find a car that is breaking, or on Ebay, and re-code it.
I've had several ECU's swapped (mainly on the Scirocco) for various reasons. But none failed !
Pretty much every car can be re-coded quite easily, as long as you get the correct ECU (that is where many people fall over, even the same engines in the same models can have different ECU's from different years)
We even removed the immobiliser from one of the ECU's so we could just swap it in and out of other cars to test etc.
Usual failures are due to water ingress, or electrical cock up (eg doing something stupid with the battery) it's rare an ECU randomly fails.
As a side note -
Carbs are just annoying
FI is cleaner, easier to work on (IMO) , more accurate, more economical, more powerful, and easier to upgrade
some stuff some people do with laptops on modern cars is incredible.
Of course, the only car I was driving in the Mid 90's was my Little Tykes. so maybe it's a generational thing.
I've owned Motorcycles with carburettors. My memory was whenever it was cold , they struggled to start (did always get me going though) and one time during one commute home it was very, very cold (probably -2) and for some reason over 30% throttle the bike just stuttered and went to die. I suspected carb icing, but it didn't do it again so........
I do fondly recall my Dad's old Ford Escort having a HUGE choke handle though, it was always funny to see it sticking out of the dash like some dildo.
I agree with this. I currently own one vehicle with twin carbs and in 8 years ownership it has needed a new pair of carbs - which then failed five years later due to the float chambers no longer floating. Not cheap to get done at a garage. That has cost me far more than a new ECU for my Smart car would cost.Sure if you walk into a Land Rover dealer and ask for an ECU for a Range Rover as an example, it could be very expensive.
Or ........ you can find a car that is breaking, or on Ebay, and re-code it.
I've had several ECU's swapped (mainly on the Scirocco) for various reasons. But none failed !
Pretty much every car can be re-coded quite easily, as long as you get the correct ECU (that is where many people fall over, even the same engines in the same models can have different ECU's from different years)
We even removed the immobiliser from one of the ECU's so we could just swap it in and out of other cars to test etc.
Usual failures are due to water ingress, or electrical cock up (eg doing something stupid with the battery) it's rare an ECU randomly fails.
As a side note -
Carbs are just annoying
FI is cleaner, easier to work on (IMO) , more accurate, more economical, more powerful, and easier to upgrade
some stuff some people do with laptops on modern cars is incredible.
Of course, the only car I was driving in the Mid 90's was my Little Tykes. so maybe it's a generational thing.
I've owned Motorcycles with carburettors. My memory was whenever it was cold , they struggled to start (did always get me going though) and one time during one commute home it was very, very cold (probably -2) and for some reason over 30% throttle the bike just stuttered and went to die. I suspected carb icing, but it didn't do it again so........
I do fondly recall my Dad's old Ford Escort having a HUGE choke handle though, it was always funny to see it sticking out of the dash like some dildo.
Mike
I had my 2001 Volvo CEM repaired before it was 15 years old, I think it was relatively common as the guy in London that repaired it had a business just for that.
25 year old Supra's are giving issues now, any ones of the same model can be swapped in with no coding but they are starting to get thin on the ground and repairs (capacitors normally) can be hit and miss, there's no such go to guy/place like I found for the volvo.
So you are potentially better off with a car known for failures than not, in the long run!?
25 year old Supra's are giving issues now, any ones of the same model can be swapped in with no coding but they are starting to get thin on the ground and repairs (capacitors normally) can be hit and miss, there's no such go to guy/place like I found for the volvo.
So you are potentially better off with a car known for failures than not, in the long run!?
bristolracer said:
Lot of ECUs get written off by water, blocked drain holes,convertibles with dodgy seals, leaking windscreens.
For some reason car makers seem fond of putting them under areas where water gathers or in the bottom of cavities where water will track into
For some reason car makers seem fond of putting them under areas where water gathers or in the bottom of cavities where water will track into
Who in their right mind would build a luxury saloon with inadequate plenum chamber drainage then place much of the car's electronic gubbins in the passenger footwell, the place where any water build-up runs into?Audi, that's who.
SimonTheSailor said:
Pericoloso said:
SimonTheSailor said:
Mo28 said:
Had a year old Citroen DS3 that had to have the ECU replaced
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