RE: How Britain made the Clio 182 Trophy

RE: How Britain made the Clio 182 Trophy

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Discussion

Beno66

99 posts

148 months

Wednesday 11th March
quotequote all
Currently own a 5GTT, Clio Williams 2, Megane 275 Trophy R , Clio 172 Cup and a 182 Trophy.

If I could only keep one it would be the 182 Trophy..........

IMHO the most fun on 4 wheels.

clarki

995 posts

172 months

Wednesday 11th March
quotequote all
is1 said:
That seems a slightly harsh view. Whilst I didn't think it was quite an all time great, it was a brilliant car in terms of what it was meant to be.
I don't recognise your critique:
Ride (which was firm and well damped but not uncomfortable);
Brakes (which were very good, decent feel and performance, it only weighed a ton);
Not fast (it was plenty fast enough but needed revving out to get the performance - that was part of its appeal);
Fuel economy (very good, easily 30 mpg on a blast and above that if taking it easier);
Driving position (not the best, but not a deal breaker);
Steering wheel (fair criticism, like holding a dinner plate!);
Intermittent wiper settings - it was based on the Cup and didn't have intermittent wipe option but the stalk could be retro-fitted from a 182.

It wasn't a torque-rich barnstormer but as a compact fast hatch it was excellent.
Prior to mine, I had a couple of Evo VIs and subsequent to it, a DC2 Integra, 911 and Panda 100HP and it was up there with those.

PS: The DC2 was a better car in my opinion but it cost a lot more so should have been.

I think a lot of the "holy grail" vibe has come about from things like the limited build (we all like a limited edition), motorsport dampers, Recaro seats and the resulting collectible nature of the car. The reviews at the time were a bit daft re it seeing off M6s and Gallardos.
That's likely because those cars are low slung, borrowed, expensive etc. whereas the evo car was bought by the magazine and could presumably be driven to the redline in every gear with no braking anywhere.
Just my opinion and i'm probably wrong anyway, who knows?? Did think the Trophy was a nice looking car though.

Didn't particularly like my evo 6 either, 8 was a much better car, but everyone goes on about the evo 6, it's raw, its mechanical, it's the best blah, blah, hooray...err, nope.

Park-ut4ry

12 posts

57 months

Wednesday 11th March
quotequote all
Interesting to see a few negative comments on these, I have a DC2 Integra and was offered a 172 Cup at a price I couldn't refuse and was really disappointed compared to the Honda. I've put it down to the car being a poor example and have always wanted to try a Trophy to see if its as good as good as people make out.

Same with anything this age, finding a good one will be expensive and difficult!

Hol

5,396 posts

153 months

Wednesday 11th March
quotequote all
UpBeats said:
clarki said:
Not a particularly great car IMO.

Terrible ride, poor brakes, not particularly fast yet crap on fuel, awful driving position, bus like steering wheel and what was it with the intermittent wiper settings??!!

Had mine less than a year back in the day, was in for a service and they let me try a Megane R26 - now that was a great car - the clio stayed at the dealer and the megane came home instead.

Echo the feelings towards Jeremy though, top fella, always enjoyed chatting to him at the RS track nights at Bedford. Good times.
i look back with fondness to mine also, i did the same as you, got a test drive in liquid yellow meg r26 and the rest is history, just seemed better and faster. I then moved on to the 275 meg trophy. Now in a mk8 Fiesta ST3 and would probably say it is the most competent of them all day to day but the 275 trophy probably would still be best on track?
I have an ironic twist on both these stories.

Two years ago I went hunting for a Trophy as a train station car on the basis that I used to enjoy driving my wife's then new 182 Cup pack back in 2004.

My problem was that they were all outside the £6k budget I had put aside, so I bought a low miles mildly tuned R26 instead.

OFORBES

324 posts

53 months

Wednesday 11th March
quotequote all
David87 said:
Roma101 said:
About a month after I took delivery of my 182 (with Cup pack), they announced the Trophy. I was 'slightly' annoyed at the time.

A shout out for Jeremy T! I met him a few times when he was at Renault and he was (is) a top bloke. He really connected with the RS enthusiasts. It was a great era for Renault. Sadly now gone, it would seem.
Pretty sure someone told me he now works for PSA, I think. Or maybe Vauxhall, but suppose that's the same thing nowadays.

Had a great time with Renault back in those days - did a Dieppe factory tour and managed to have a fabulous lunch with the three guys mentioned in the article. They also put me up in a box for a Brands Hatch BTCC race with the Renaultsport staff and that was a great day too. Such a top company back then.
Yep - JT is now at PSA and is a great guy.

I loved my Trophy that I owned back in 2007 so much that in 2018 I bought it back after randomly finding it for sale!

The RenaultSport scene back then was so vibrant, there was some event or track day on seemingly every week and Jeremy was an incredible brand ambassador for them. Its a real shame that the massive following of RS and their events seems to have died a death over the last 10 years or so

thelostboy

3,879 posts

178 months

Wednesday 11th March
quotequote all
MyV10BarksAndBites said:
This is the reality.... Spot on..

But, i can't deny or ignore the feelings of these contributors and owners... They love it and actually lol, so do i , that's all that matters and enough to put it into the hot hatch hall of fame....

For me tho, the Jap Ep3 is the hot hatch of that generation... That was the GT3 of hot hatches...
I am a Honda fan, but even so, what planet are you on? The EP3 had an awful ride compared to a Trophy, and the steering was woeful. Great drivetrain, but not the connectivity the Clio's have. There's just no need to cite the fugly EP3 when the DC2 exists.

My first car was a 1.2 Clio, so the Trophy was a dream car for someone too young to afford to buy or insure one. Aged 32, I eventually got round to owning one and absolutely love it!

I was at Goodwood at the weekend and went past a GT3, dedicated race cars, and Caterhams (oh, and lapped an EP3...). It soaked up the abuse and felt great driving home too.

Batfink

1,027 posts

211 months

Wednesday 11th March
quotequote all
Park-ut4ry said:
Interesting to see a few negative comments on these, I have a DC2 Integra and was offered a 172 Cup at a price I couldn't refuse and was really disappointed compared to the Honda. I've put it down to the car being a poor example and have always wanted to try a Trophy to see if its as good as good as people make out.

Same with anything this age, finding a good one will be expensive and difficult!
The DC2 is a better car for the driver. The steering is better due to the double wishbone front. Its driving position and gear change is great too.
I'd rate it better than the Peugeot 205 GTI even but then really you have to look at the Clio for what it was.

It was a cheap hot hatch (before manufacturers made them bigger and more grown up) so an end of an era type car.
I have a Trophy. I have changed the seat to be lower to address that issue, but yes the engine is good power but uninspiring and the gearchange is a big meh but the chassis is great and allows you to be a big kid.

Future Meganes and other models from alternate manufacturers stepped up the quality but also the price and complexity of the car. They are more expensive to run and maintain. Theres good reason why the Clio 172 and 182 are still massively popular.

smartie93

79 posts

118 months

Wednesday 11th March
quotequote all
MyV10BarksAndBites said:
clarki said:
Not a particularly great car IMO.

Terrible ride, poor brakes, not particularly fast yet crap on fuel, awful driving position, bus like steering wheel and what was it with the intermittent wiper settings??!!

Had mine less than a year back in the day, was in for a service and they let me try a Megane R26 - now that was a great car - the clio stayed at the dealer and the megane came home instead.

Echo the feelings towards Jeremy though, top fella, always enjoyed chatting to him at the RS track nights at Bedford. Good times.
This is the reality.... Spot on..

But, i can't deny or ignore the feelings of these contributors and owners... They love it and actually lol, so do i , that's all that matters and enough to put it into the hot hatch hall of fame....

For me tho, the Jap Ep3 is the hot hatch of that generation... That was the GT3 of hot hatches...
I agree with several of those points, especially the bus steering wheel... but they're not deal breakers. If you think the ride is bad, try a 182 after driving a modern equivalent, I couldn't believe how harsh the mk7 ST was.

I can get 30+mpg when driven spiritedly, and nudging 40 on a run, 15 years after the car was built. What would do better at the time (or even now!) for the performance?

The EP3 is a fantastic powertrain wrapped up in a meh car. It also looks like a van with windows biglaugh The ideal car would be a K20 powered Clio




Batfink

1,027 posts

211 months

Wednesday 11th March
quotequote all
smartie93 said:
I agree with several of those points, especially the bus steering wheel... but they're not deal breakers. If you think the ride is bad, try a 182 after driving a modern equivalent, I couldn't believe how harsh the mk7 ST was.

I can get 30+mpg when driven spiritedly, and nudging 40 on a run, 15 years after the car was built. What would do better at the time (or even now!) for the performance?

The EP3 is a fantastic powertrain wrapped up in a meh car. It also looks like a van with windows biglaugh The ideal car would be a K20 powered Clio
K20 Clio is being done. Looks like they are changing the whole car loom so its a big job.
Arguably a turbo kit is cheaper biggrin

Patrick Bateman

11,117 posts

127 months

Wednesday 11th March
quotequote all
is1 said:
That seems a slightly harsh view. Whilst I didn't think it was quite an all time great, it was a brilliant car in terms of what it was meant to be.
I don't recognise your critique:
Ride (which was firm and well damped but not uncomfortable);
Brakes (which were very good, decent feel and performance, it only weighed a ton);
Not fast (it was plenty fast enough but needed revving out to get the performance - that was part of its appeal);
Fuel economy (very good, easily 30 mpg on a blast and above that if taking it easier);
Driving position (not the best, but not a deal breaker);
Steering wheel (fair criticism, like holding a dinner plate!);
Intermittent wiper settings - it was based on the Cup and didn't have intermittent wipe option but the stalk could be retro-fitted from a 182.

It wasn't a torque-rich barnstormer but as a compact fast hatch it was excellent.
Prior to mine, I had a couple of Evo VIs and subsequent to it, a DC2 Integra, 911 and Panda 100HP and it was up there with those.

PS: The DC2 was a better car in my opinion but it cost a lot more so should have been.

I think a lot of the "holy grail" vibe has come about from things like the limited build (we all like a limited edition), motorsport dampers, Recaro seats and the resulting collectible nature of the car. The reviews at the time were a bit daft re it seeing off M6s and Gallardos.
That's likely because those cars are low slung, borrowed, expensive etc. whereas the evo car was bought by the magazine and could presumably be driven to the redline in every gear with no braking anywhere.
Have you ever watched any Evo videos or read the car of the year articles? I'm not buying it that they take it easy in expensive metal. It's not hard to believe the Trophy could excel against the likes of a Gallardo in a series of hairpin bends.



InitialDave

6,524 posts

72 months

Wednesday 11th March
quotequote all
Also if you watch Harry's video, it was a Renault demo car, he liked it enough to buy it.

MiseryStreak

1,698 posts

160 months

Wednesday 11th March
quotequote all
The day I picked 298/500 up. I owned it alongside the 205 GTi for a week or so, it was more of a spiritual successor to the GTi than anything from Peugeot back in 2006.


Drove it straight to Wales and tried it out on some of the best roads in the country. This was at the top of Cefn Bryn in Gower, my favourite road in South Wales.


Then drove it to the south of France. This was outside a Renault garage in Saint-Antonin, Tarn, wearing 600 miles worth of dead insects. The Renault garages in that part of France are a bit nicer than back home.


First trackday for 'XOG' at Goodwood. Got driving tuition from none other than Anthony Reid. He overtook everything on track including R8s and 911 GT3s, I don't think his pulse went above 65. Mine did.


French Car Breakfast Club at Goodwood, May 2007. We managed to get 7 Trophy together and also mix them up with some other cars to come out of the Dieppe factory! The Alpine drivers were all really nice guys, I think the old Frenchies must attract a better class of petrolhead...


I sold XOG in 2007 after putting 20,000 miles on it. It stayed in the UK for 2 more owners then was exported to Paris by an RS Clio enthusiast who wanted the best model! Unfortunately and rather tragically, he only had it 3 months when some arsehat in a BMW Z4 drove into him at 60mph, and he hit a telegraph pole. He was fine, but XOG was no more.


I have put these up as a tribute to 298/500 (XOG). There will always be a place in my heart for that car. It was awesome. Not a car for everyone and far from perfect, but in terms of affordable and reliable fun, it was unmatched. On the right road, it is outrageously good, more than a £15,500 car has any right to be.

Maldini35

2,394 posts

141 months

Wednesday 11th March
quotequote all
MiseryStreak said:
The day I picked 298/500 up. I owned it alongside the 205 GTi for a week or so, it was more of a spiritual successor to the GTi than anything from Peugeot back in 2006.


Drove it straight to Wales and tried it out on some of the best roads in the country. This was at the top of Cefn Bryn in Gower, my favourite road in South Wales.


Then drove it to the south of France. This was outside a Renault garage in Saint-Antonin, Tarn, wearing 600 miles worth of dead insects. The Renault garages in that part of France are a bit nicer than back home.


First trackday for 'XOG' at Goodwood. Got driving tuition from none other than Anthony Reid. He overtook everything on track including R8s and 911 GT3s, I don't think his pulse went above 65. Mine did.


French Car Breakfast Club at Goodwood, May 2007. We managed to get 7 Trophy together and also mix them up with some other cars to come out of the Dieppe factory! The Alpine drivers were all really nice guys, I think the old Frenchies must attract a better class of petrolhead...


I sold XOG in 2007 after putting 20,000 miles on it. It stayed in the UK for 2 more owners then was exported to Paris by an RS Clio enthusiast who wanted the best model! Unfortunately and rather tragically, he only had it 3 months when some arsehat in a BMW Z4 drove into him at 60mph, and he hit a telegraph pole. He was fine, but XOG was no more.


I have put these up as a tribute to 298/500 (XOG). There will always be a place in my heart for that car. It was awesome. Not a car for everyone and far from perfect, but in terms of affordable and reliable fun, it was unmatched. On the right road, it is outrageously good, more than a £15,500 car has any right to be.
Great post!

They do get under your skin.


Gary C

6,079 posts

132 months

Wednesday 11th March
quotequote all
"Hydraulic bump stops were the cherry on top, helping to vastly improving front end agility and slashing understeer "

Cornering on the bump stops !!!

Surely the front springs weren't that soft.

heisthegaffer

1,519 posts

151 months

Wednesday 11th March
quotequote all
Great article and great stories. More of this type of thing.

On the subject of Trophys. I would have one if I had the means to. I love them.

heisthegaffer

1,519 posts

151 months

Wednesday 11th March
quotequote all
And Jeremy was always great on the RS forum.

markcoznottz

5,566 posts

177 months

Wednesday 11th March
quotequote all
MiseryStreak said:
The day I picked 298/500 up. I owned it alongside the 205 GTi for a week or so, it was more of a spiritual successor to the GTi than anything from Peugeot back in 2006.


Drove it straight to Wales and tried it out on some of the best roads in the country. This was at the top of Cefn Bryn in Gower, my favourite road in South Wales.


Then drove it to the south of France. This was outside a Renault garage in Saint-Antonin, Tarn, wearing 600 miles worth of dead insects. The Renault garages in that part of France are a bit nicer than back home.


First trackday for 'XOG' at Goodwood. Got driving tuition from none other than Anthony Reid. He overtook everything on track including R8s and 911 GT3s, I don't think his pulse went above 65. Mine did.


French Car Breakfast Club at Goodwood, May 2007. We managed to get 7 Trophy together and also mix them up with some other cars to come out of the Dieppe factory! The Alpine drivers were all really nice guys, I think the old Frenchies must attract a better class of petrolhead...


I sold XOG in 2007 after putting 20,000 miles on it. It stayed in the UK for 2 more owners then was exported to Paris by an RS Clio enthusiast who wanted the best model! Unfortunately and rather tragically, he only had it 3 months when some arsehat in a BMW Z4 drove into him at 60mph, and he hit a telegraph pole. He was fine, but XOG was no more.


I have put these up as a tribute to 298/500 (XOG). There will always be a place in my heart for that car. It was awesome. Not a car for everyone and far from perfect, but in terms of affordable and reliable fun, it was unmatched. On the right road, it is outrageously good, more than a £15,500 car has any right to be.
Let's be honest though, the 205 is the better drivers car, and more engaging. The Clio is as close to the 205, and the r5 turbo, as it could be within the legislative constraints at the time. No suprise it beat the m6 and gallardo, both being quite poorly resolved barges at that time.

Titan2

68 posts

49 months

Wednesday 11th March
quotequote all
big_joe said:
I bought one pretty much on the strength of Harry Metcalfe's YouTube video and I have to say it was the most disappointing car I've ever owned.

The engine was flat and uncharistmatic, driving position was horrible, gear change wooly and it really needed an LSD. The ride was admittedly fantastic on a B road, but that was literally the only thing I liked. I ended up swapping it for Civic EK9 which I thought was infinitely more special to drive.

Not sure if I had a bad one or I just didn't "get it".

Always remember my brothers EK9 he got back in 2005.

First "performance" car I drove and always thought they were a great car after that.
Do you still have yours?

You will pay a pretty penny to buy a good one in Japan now unfortunately.

Titan2

68 posts

49 months

Wednesday 11th March
quotequote all
Beno66 said:
Currently own a 5GTT, Clio Williams 2, Megane 275 Trophy R , Clio 172 Cup and a 182 Trophy.

If I could only keep one it would be the 182 Trophy..........

IMHO the most fun on 4 wheels.
Now that's not a bad few cars to have sitting in your shed.

How do you rate the 172/182 compared to the William's?

I know there is a few years development between each of them but the William's is still I think seen as a sort of halo car from the 90's as well.

Possibly a step on from the likes of the 205 GTI no doubt as well.

MiseryStreak

1,698 posts

160 months

Wednesday 11th March
quotequote all
markcoznottz said:
Let's be honest though, the 205 is the better drivers car, and more engaging. The Clio is as close to the 205, and the r5 turbo, as it could be within the legislative constraints at the time. No suprise it beat the m6 and gallardo, both being quite poorly resolved barges at that time.
The 205 had more feel-some steering, the non-PAS model I had did anyway. But it was sketchy as hell on the brakes, would kill you if you lifted off mid-corner, and wouldn't see which way a Trophy went on any track or B-road you care to mention. The 205 GTi was the best hot hatch of the 80s, but going between it and the Trophy, it felt like more than 2 decades of development. The suspension set-up of the Trophy was in a different league, you could completely take the piss, on a fresh set of Michelin PE2s the cornering speed you could carry was ludicrous. If you lifted off it just allowed the single rear contact patch to yaw around a bit more and tighten the line. It flattered imperfect driving. The 205 was possibly more engaging, because it took real skill and care to drive it fast, and you'd get out of it feeling like you'd had a brush with death - because you had usually. This made it less fun though, driving the Trophy was less scary, but faster everywhere and more fun. It's the most fun car I've ever driven.

Lots of people criticised it for not having an LSD. It didn't need one as a road car. The only time it understeered was in really tight slow corners on track, like at Bedford Autodrome. I took the DC2 ITR there, that I replaced the Trophy with, and noticed the difference powering out of tight corners, this was the ITR at its best. But on the road corners like that just aren't a feature (apart from the Stelvio pass perhaps). It hardly ever understeered, and didn't exhibit torque steer either like the Meganes and other contemporary forced induction cars did (because they actually had torque). The 205 had more torque steer than the Trophy. And the ITR had even less feelsome steering, despite being older. The brakes were more than good enough too, if you swapped the pads to Ferodo DS2500s, which most owners did.

I think on balance it just got everything right enough to be regarded as the perfect hot hatch.