RE: How Britain made the Clio 182 Trophy

RE: How Britain made the Clio 182 Trophy

Author
Discussion

Tom Clarke

42 posts

113 months

Thursday 12th March
quotequote all
Owned an M6 and a few 182s. M6 wouldn't see where a Clio went on a Col de Turini type stretch of road. Too much weight to transfer with any sort of agility and can't put its power down coming out of tight low speed corners. I think the Evo review in question was on that sort of road...given a straight the M6 would obviously drive off into the sunset.

Power to weight matters on a straight, but only weight matters in the twisties.

MyV10BarksAndBites

27 posts

2 months

Thursday 12th March
quotequote all
Tom Clarke said:
Owned an M6 and a few 182s. M6 wouldn't see where a Clio went on a Col de Turini type stretch of road. Too much weight to transfer with any sort of agility and can't put its power down coming out of tight low speed corners. I think the Evo review in question was on that sort of road...given a straight the M6 would obviously drive off into the sunset.

Power to weight matters on a straight, but only weight matters in the twisties.
Doesn't ring true for me... However if that is your experience thumbup

Actually, you may have a point on a "Col de Turini type stretch of road"... But not on 99% of roads most come across.... That issue of Evo magazine will always be legendary for me....

Again, those Clio's are great fun....

Also just seen your previous post.. Good post thumbup

Edited by MyV10BarksAndBites on Thursday 12th March 14:09


Edited by MyV10BarksAndBites on Thursday 12th March 14:11


Edited by MyV10BarksAndBites on Thursday 12th March 14:12


Edited by MyV10BarksAndBites on Thursday 12th March 14:19


Edited by MyV10BarksAndBites on Thursday 12th March 14:20

Tom Clarke

42 posts

113 months

Thursday 12th March
quotequote all
Anywhere where the M6 (or any big power-barge) can hook up and get its power down it'll be gone. A Col de Turini stretch is about the only situation where a 182 is going to live with supercars realistically, but I do believe it would have the edge in that very specific situation. Had Evo done the test somewhere a bit less technically challenging there would perhaps be no heroic Trophy story as it was a bit out of its depth really!..Nice bit of folklore, seeded in truth, but I think probably overstated throughout the years.

Both bloody good fun as you say.

Jon_S_Rally

809 posts

41 months

Thursday 12th March
quotequote all
MyV10BarksAndBites said:
Doesn't ring true for me... However if that is your experience thumbup

Actually, you may have a point on a "Col de Turini type stretch of road"... But not on 99% of roads most come across.... That issue of Evo magazine will always be legendary for me....

Again, those Clio's are great fun....

Also just seen your previous post.. Good post thumbup
Probably depends where you live to some extent I guess. Where I live, most of the good driving roads are narrow, bumpy and usually covered in mud. I think trying to hustle any kind of big, powerful car down them would be pretty hard work and a slightly nervy experience compared to something like the Clio laugh

CABC

3,295 posts

54 months

Thursday 12th March
quotequote all
Tom Clarke said:
I've owned my Trophy for about three years now. It's my favourite car I've ever owned but is by no means perfect. Before it I'd had TVRs, XKRs, 911s, AMGs an M6 and so on. I bought a 182 as a run around while having some engine work done to my Mercedes, I intended to sell the Clio once the Mercedes was back on the road. I sold the Mercedes and kept the Clio. I foolishly let the Clio go and missed it almost instantly. Not long afterwards I bought the Trophy and I'll never sell it.

They are unreliable, they rattle and squeak, the fuel economy is surprisingly bad for a car which weighs so little, on a motorway the lack of a sixth gear is torturous, the quality of the interior materials is woeful, and if you're buying one with any of the above in mind you're missing the point entirely.

I was not long out of my 997 when I first got into a 182, the steering and brake feel of the Clio immediately put me in mind of the Porsche. As did the adjustability of the chassis when driven on the limit. The hilarity of the Clios willful tendancy towards lift off oversteer and cocking a rear wheel reminded me how fun a capable but imperfect chassis could be. They aren't razor sharp implements, and nor would I want them to be, they're forgiving and approachable, rather than spiting you for misjudging an entry speed they reward you with amusement, they're playful and can be driven beyond the limit with less risk than similarly quick cars. That presents you the opportunity to push on and become a better driver. For me, that's what they're all about.

To the Civic/Clio debate, the Honda was 17k when new, they should be a different league to the 13k Clio, so good on them if they are. They're rapid in a straight line, faster than a standard 182. In the corners the Clio drives away from them, despite their fancy double wishbone suspension. I own a lovely Honda S2K and the chassis I learned to drive spiritedly in was an EK Civic so I'm no Honda hating Renault fan boy. They're great, just not as competent as the Clio in the corners, much better made, nicer engine, different cup of tea entirely.

To dispel another myth, the Trophy is not head and shoulders above any other 182 in my humble opinion. The dampers are fractionally more compliant on the ragged edge, but only fractionally. The only Clio I've experienced which felt markedly different from the many 182s I've driven was a 172 Cup. It felt lighter, more nimble and precise.

Sadly 182s have gotten to that price point (or happily I suppose) where there are lots of neglected ones knocking about. If you drove a shabby one you'd be underwhelmed, as with most cars. Find a well sorted one and you'll likely be reminded why you fell in love with driving in the first place. For me discovering the joys of a 182 was the end of my quest for big horsepower and the begining of my appreciation for low weight, low cost, low risk B road and trackday fun. For a couple of grand you can go bother the lower echelon Ginettas' and Caterhams' around a track, then throw your spare wheels in the boot and drive home. Will you break down? Yes. Will you sit wondering where on earth they got this weird, horrible plastic from while you wait for the RAC truck? Probably. Will you have more fun for the same or less money anywhere else? Absolutely not!

They're terrible cars, and simultaneously the absolute best of cars (a bit like TVRs but wrong wheel drive). I'll never part with mine, or the Williams which recently joined it. Fortunately the wife has a Honda for when neither of the Clios work!

Edited to add: This photo of mine out and about today...

Edited by Tom Clarke on Thursday 12th March 03:27
great post.
a lot of wisdom acquired there.

plenty

2,854 posts

139 months

Thursday 12th March
quotequote all
Feirny said:
Serial owner here, and would own another when the time is right.

Also owned on alongside a Megane R26, and the Clio always got the nod when picking which to drive in a morning.
Mmm. I've got an R26.R and will be taking delivery of an LY 182 tomorrow. Look forward to having this rather pleasant decision to make.

plenty

2,854 posts

139 months

Thursday 12th March
quotequote all
MyV10BarksAndBites said:
Its very hard to believe, when you have driven all the cars mentioned.... A Trophy might stand a chance for all 1.5 secs on the most twistiest, narrowest lane, with traffic.. (you wouldn't want to tell anyone that you stuffed your Gallardo racing a Clio)... But one lunge, in one gear leaves a Clio completely standing still... and that's just the M6... also bumps that will throw a Clio of line will go unnoticed in an M6.. It will be gone...
I have been driving in convoys with a wide mix of machinery for many years and have done more than 50,000 miles of convoy driving.

In Europe where roads are billiard smooth and sightlines are better than in this country, a powerful and large car will have an edge.

In the UK something like a Trophy will be as quick 80% of the time on a B-road and quicker in many scenarios where small dimensions and confidence-inspiring, exploitable handling matter far more than BHP. Forget A-roads and motorways, I'm talking about fun roads. And a good driver in a Trophy will be quicker than an average driver in a Gallardo in every situation other than a straight line.

It is counter-intuitive I know, but anyone who has spent time in convoys will understand.

Maldini35

2,394 posts

141 months

Thursday 12th March
quotequote all
Convoy yeah


andyj007

122 posts

131 months

Thursday 12th March
quotequote all
get a hald decent 182FF for 1500 quid, put in some new cup shocks & dampers for 350. new brakes discs and pads all round for another 200. rear roll bar for £100
95% of the car for 25% of the money so 95% fun . with the spare 6k change get yourself some spare wheels wa racing seat, harness. streering wheel for 1k and use the 5k left to do 20 epic fun track days with money for fuel and spares a plenty.

all for the same money as a trophy.. and you 182 will still be worth 2k when youve fininshed..

had two and still have one.. absolutely brilliant little cars to hoon round a track in..

plenty

2,854 posts

139 months

Thursday 12th March
quotequote all
Maldini35 said:
Convoy yeah
smile We have the radios and everything

uncleluck

364 posts

4 months

Thursday 12th March
quotequote all
andyj007 said:
get a hald decent 182FF for 1500 quid, put in some new cup shocks & dampers for 350. new brakes discs and pads all round for another 200. rear roll bar for £100
95% of the car for 25% of the money so 95% fun . with the spare 6k change get yourself some spare wheels wa racing seat, harness. streering wheel for 1k and use the 5k left to do 20 epic fun track days with money for fuel and spares a plenty.

all for the same money as a trophy.. and you 182 will still be worth 2k when youve fininshed..

had two and still have one.. absolutely brilliant little cars to hoon round a track in..
Prices are about half as much are they? I know I’ve got some cup shocks in my eBay watched items, £89 front pair £85 rear pair.

Mintex discs & pads all round £151, pretty amazing when you consider the rear come with new wheel bearings & ABS rings. Cheap to run compared to my imprezas (which aren’t bad)

Maldini35

2,394 posts

141 months

Thursday 12th March
quotequote all
andyj007 said:
get a hald decent 182FF for 1500 quid, put in some new cup shocks & dampers for 350. new brakes discs and pads all round for another 200. rear roll bar for £100
95% of the car for 25% of the money so 95% fun . with the spare 6k change get yourself some spare wheels wa racing seat, harness. streering wheel for 1k and use the 5k left to do 20 epic fun track days with money for fuel and spares a plenty.

all for the same money as a trophy.. and you 182 will still be worth 2k when youve fininshed..

had two and still have one.. absolutely brilliant little cars to hoon round a track in..
This what I did with my 172 Cup. Spent a grand refreshing everything: springs, dampers, bushes, track rod ends, discs, pads, brake hoses, gearbox oil, engine oil flush, spark plugs, new injectors, air filter and new tyres.
A lot of money for a £1500 car but what a difference!
Feels fast, responsive and handles like a new one.
Best of all I could do it all myself on the driveway with standard tools and fists of ham.

Genuine Renault parts can also be incredibly cheap. I got all four Renaultsport Cup dampers for just £79!

Go on, save one yourself


Court_S

2,316 posts

130 months

Friday 13th March
quotequote all
I bloody love these but I have a real thing for the RS 172/182’s.

I cane very close to buying a FF 182 in Gordini blue but I bottled it and bought my E46 instead which turned out to be a royal pain in the arse.

For me the Trophy is the one to have. It just looks so right in that colour but if I had enough room I’d happily have a 182 FF as a toy / fun car because they’re cheap to buy and run these days.

buccal

443 posts

145 months

Friday 13th March
quotequote all
Maldini35 said:
This what I did with my 172 Cup. Spent a grand refreshing everything: springs, dampers, bushes, track rod ends, discs, pads, brake hoses, gearbox oil, engine oil flush, spark plugs, new injectors, air filter and new tyres.
A lot of money for a £1500 car but what a difference!
Feels fast, responsive and handles like a new one.
Best of all I could do it all myself on the driveway with standard tools and fists of ham.

Genuine Renault parts can also be incredibly cheap. I got all four Renaultsport Cup dampers for just £79!

Go on, save one yourself
I really like the sound of doing this.

Could run it as a winter car to save my MX5 dissolving as I believe CIios are pretty good rust wise?

Robmarriott

2,021 posts

111 months

Friday 13th March
quotequote all
buccal said:
I really like the sound of doing this.

Could run it as a winter car to save my MX5 dissolving as I believe CIios are pretty good rust wise?
I've owned two, both 2005 cars and neither of them showed any signs of rust at all. Miraculous really.

uncleluck

364 posts

4 months

Friday 13th March
quotequote all
Robmarriott said:
I've owned two, both 2005 cars and neither of them showed any signs of rust at all. Miraculous really.
Mine is a 53 plate with 131k and inside the rear arches look like new. I bought it nearly 10 years ago though and it’s still on it’s original paint (I paid a lot at the time) and the bloke I bought it from was proper anal about them wanting a mint original when he bought it. It’s still completely standard too (which is the best way for these cars) exhausts and filters just make a grown man look like a burk with 170bhp under the hood!

I put off looking for rust as I’d hear people say it’ll be rotten inside but honestly mine looks mint in the arches from inside. Not even a hint of rust. I do think a lot of rust is down to previous paintwork, the galvanising on these is obviously just on the surface so once they’ve been sanded rust has free rein. It’s a bit like the old 205 Gti’s I had 25 years ago, you’d get rusty ones that’d been damaged yet my dentist had one from new for years (he might even still have it) and it was always mint as it was original.

Not saying it’s gospel but surely if they all rust mine would be rusty. It’s done high mileage and been abused as far as cleaning goes. Gets used all weathers and I’ve probably cleaned it 2 or 3 times in the last 3 years!


Jon_S_Rally

809 posts

41 months

Friday 13th March
quotequote all
Tom Clarke said:
I've owned my Trophy for about three years now. It's my favourite car I've ever owned but is by no means perfect. Before it I'd had TVRs, XKRs, 911s, AMGs an M6 and so on. I bought a 182 as a run around while having some engine work done to my Mercedes, I intended to sell the Clio once the Mercedes was back on the road. I sold the Mercedes and kept the Clio. I foolishly let the Clio go and missed it almost instantly. Not long afterwards I bought the Trophy and I'll never sell it.

They are unreliable, they rattle and squeak, the fuel economy is surprisingly bad for a car which weighs so little, on a motorway the lack of a sixth gear is torturous, the quality of the interior materials is woeful, and if you're buying one with any of the above in mind you're missing the point entirely.

I was not long out of my 997 when I first got into a 182, the steering and brake feel of the Clio immediately put me in mind of the Porsche. As did the adjustability of the chassis when driven on the limit. The hilarity of the Clios willful tendancy towards lift off oversteer and cocking a rear wheel reminded me how fun a capable but imperfect chassis could be. They aren't razor sharp implements, and nor would I want them to be, they're forgiving and approachable, rather than spiting you for misjudging an entry speed they reward you with amusement, they're playful and can be driven beyond the limit with less risk than similarly quick cars. That presents you the opportunity to push on and become a better driver. For me, that's what they're all about.

To the Civic/Clio debate, the Honda was 17k when new, they should be a different league to the 13k Clio, so good on them if they are. They're rapid in a straight line, faster than a standard 182. In the corners the Clio drives away from them, despite their fancy double wishbone suspension. I own a lovely Honda S2K and the chassis I learned to drive spiritedly in was an EK Civic so I'm no Honda hating Renault fan boy. They're great, just not as competent as the Clio in the corners, much better made, nicer engine, different cup of tea entirely.

To dispel another myth, the Trophy is not head and shoulders above any other 182 in my humble opinion. The dampers are fractionally more compliant on the ragged edge, but only fractionally. The only Clio I've experienced which felt markedly different from the many 182s I've driven was a 172 Cup. It felt lighter, more nimble and precise.

Sadly 182s have gotten to that price point (or happily I suppose) where there are lots of neglected ones knocking about. If you drove a shabby one you'd be underwhelmed, as with most cars. Find a well sorted one and you'll likely be reminded why you fell in love with driving in the first place. For me discovering the joys of a 182 was the end of my quest for big horsepower and the begining of my appreciation for low weight, low cost, low risk B road and trackday fun. For a couple of grand you can go bother the lower echelon Ginettas' and Caterhams' around a track, then throw your spare wheels in the boot and drive home. Will you break down? Yes. Will you sit wondering where on earth they got this weird, horrible plastic from while you wait for the RAC truck? Probably. Will you have more fun for the same or less money anywhere else? Absolutely not!

They're terrible cars, and simultaneously the absolute best of cars (a bit like TVRs but wrong wheel drive). I'll never part with mine, or the Williams which recently joined it. Fortunately the wife has a Honda for when neither of the Clios work!

Edited to add: This photo of mine out and about today...
A great post, though not sure I would agree with the economy/reliability thing. I think the Clio is great on fuel considering its age. Mine would regularly do over 40mpg if driven sensibly on longer runs (my 197 only does 33 in the same circumstances) and my 172 Cup was pretty reliable in the time i had it. Bought on 110k, sold on 145k and only needed basic maintenance. I don't think it ever had a problem that put it out of action. The interior feels flimsy, but the cars are pretty robust overall in my experience.

Jon_S_Rally

809 posts

41 months

Friday 13th March
quotequote all
andyj007 said:
get a hald decent 182FF for 1500 quid, put in some new cup shocks & dampers for 350. new brakes discs and pads all round for another 200. rear roll bar for £100
95% of the car for 25% of the money so 95% fun . with the spare 6k change get yourself some spare wheels wa racing seat, harness. streering wheel for 1k and use the 5k left to do 20 epic fun track days with money for fuel and spares a plenty.

all for the same money as a trophy.. and you 182 will still be worth 2k when youve fininshed..

had two and still have one.. absolutely brilliant little cars to hoon round a track in..
I think this is good advice if you're just looking for a fun toy. The Trophy is very expensive compared to other 1*2 models so, unless you really really want one, I'd just buy a regular model an tweak it a bit. For the cost of a Trophy, you could have a well-sorted normal one. The problem is, they don't seem as cheap as they were a couple of years ago. Good ones are now getting more expensive and certain colours do seem to command a premium, which is a shame, as they were a real bargain. I bought another Clio last summer and ended up with a 197 this time, as it wasn't much different price-wise and is a slightly nicer daily proposition.

buccal said:
I really like the sound of doing this.

Could run it as a winter car to save my MX5 dissolving as I believe CIios are pretty good rust wise?
They're pretty good. Some of the original ph.1 cars seem to be suffering a bit in the sills, which is obviously hidden by the side skirts. I don't know if the ph.2 cars are suffering in the same way. The tell tale is obviously getting behind the skirts, or, pull the inner rear quarter trim panel off and look down into the sill. I have seen some with the odd bubble around the rear arch too. This is sometimes because of the rear bumper rubbing the paint off though.

To be honest though, for their age, most seem pretty good and, as others have said, parts are really cheap generally.

uncleluck

364 posts

4 months

Friday 13th March
quotequote all
Jon_S_Rally said:
A great post, though not sure I would agree with the economy/reliability thing. I think the Clio is great on fuel considering its age. Mine would regularly do over 40mpg if driven sensibly on longer runs (my 197 only does 33 in the same circumstances) and my 172 Cup was pretty reliable in the time i had it. Bought on 110k, sold on 145k and only needed basic maintenance. I don't think it ever had a problem that put it out of action. The interior feels flimsy, but the cars are pretty robust overall in my experience.
I agree, nothing unreliable about a maintained 172/182.

I think people get serviceable maintenance confused with reliability. The engines are incredible and very reliable (my mate’s has done a hard 175k) all the parts are cheap.

I’ve seen people moan about them costing a lot to run then sighting things like shocks, o2 sensors, brakes etc. I’m thinking wtf, do your prev cars float on an air cushion? Maybe they had a hovercraft. I guess it’s the type of car. They were really cheap and the choice of kids who’d drive them into the ground and sell them when they’re battered. Then someone like me who gives a crap would get hold of it and you think blimey it needs shocks, discs, service etc.

The only thing my car needed that wasn’t just maintenance was an injector. But again, the car had done 125k on its originals and one injector died. I bought a brand new OE set of 4 just because they were pretty cheap and that’ll save the other 3 dying on me as they’re old and tired.

And bad on fuel... Sheesh, what did you have before? a Tesla? Mine seems mad frugal to me but then I have a couple of imprezas other than the clio. The clio is still a car you can ‘stick £20 of super in’ do that in one of my imprezas and it’ll get you nowhere on the gauge or the road. Do that in the clio and it registers a decent amount in the tank and I can run about in it for a while.

As far as actual issues unique to a clio I’ve found there’s very few.

Fuse box - in engine bay fuse box will corrode and can cause non starts but this is age and just remove every fuse and relay, sand all the contacts and spray wd40 in there to stop it coming back. Although my 2009 transit had the same issue so not really clio probs I suppose.

Airbag light - you will get this in any similar age clio, move the seats back n forth and you can get an airbag light. The connectors under the seat become poor contact, just unplug and clean them and they’ll be fine.

Rear callipers - handbrake mech like to seize if they’re sat with it on.

Crank sensor, coil pack will last x amount of years like every car and need replacing at some point.

Honestly if I was buying a nice one now (as mature buyer) is go through the car as everything is so cheap.

Edited by uncleluck on Friday 13th March 23:23

ilovequo

732 posts

134 months

Friday 13th March
quotequote all
Interesting article and strange how the 205 Gti keeps getting brought up in responses. That was my absolute dream car for 26 years...
My dad owned a Peugeot garage and I spent my childhood between the backseat of a 1.6 gti (mama) and an Mi16 (papa). One fateful birthday they bought me a 1.4 XS (1989/126k/£250 incl fees at our local auction). I worshipped that car. I can still remember lying awake at night dreaming about the day I could afford to buy a 1.9!
10 years later, Here it is.

Pretty good one, genuine 60k, great colour, no leaky sunroof, only a few rust scabs, driving well but after the 1st weeks novelty had worn off it felt as old as the hills. Maybe that’s not it’s fault, it was the best part of 30 years old and perhaps a rosetinted filter is deserved when comparing the driving experience to newer cars, I don’t know but I was glad to sell it...

In comparison, I had no childhood poster car love for Renault. I’m not even sure why I hankered after a 182 at all.
I bought this one on a bit of a whim. It was pretty good value and I thought I could have some fun with it then flip it on after a few months driving.
Instead it’s turned into the car I’ve resolved to never sell.

They have their flaws, no 6th gear and a non resonated exhaust being the major one but a fancy wheel and aftermarket gearknob make a nice difference to the plasticky std items... Not sure about the gear change others have talked about, mine feels pretty slick...
No, It’s not the fastest car but it’s plenty quick enough. Parts are cheap. Insurance is cheap. Tyres are cheap. Tax is cheapish.
It’s ‘Je ne sais quoi’ (for me) is simply that it feels like what I imagined my 205 would feel like (but never did). Quick, light, noisy, darty, rev-happy, immature, wheel spinning FUN...


Edited by ilovequo on Friday 13th March 21:45