Coronavirus = empty roads

Coronavirus = empty roads

Author
Discussion

sparkyhx

3,439 posts

159 months

Monday 6th April
quotequote all
smartypants said:
sparkyhx said:
I used to get my exercise walking to and from work from bus stop/tube car park, and walking round work however I don't do sport (other than shooting) and I don't go to the gym.

but you miss the point, the exercise rule is nonsense and illogical , nothing is going to drastically happen physically if you don't exercise for 2 months. Your mental health may suffer more than your physical health, that I agree on. However there are lots of self isolating activities that would aid mental health but do not come under 'exercise' and are therefore 'advised against' e.g. going for a drive. Why is that solution to mental health not allowed?. Why is driving to somewhere to have a walk not allowed, but cycling for miles and miles allowed. Its the inconsistency, and lack of logic.

I don't have a problem with cyclists or people driving to a location or 10 hr walks along the pennine way etc etc as long as they isolate.

I have a problem with the inconsistency and lack of logic.
Because I imagine if they specifically said that driving abotu to go for a walk is allowed, people will then drive about to go for a walk and then move the goal posts again to say why cant I just drive to the beach or just simply go for a drive?

Its a lot easier to just say "one form of exercise to and from your home" and it pretty much covers it for those with common sense.
you cannot legislate common sense what is common sense to some people is not for others

smartypants

44,735 posts

124 months

Monday 6th April
quotequote all
swisstoni said:


Just to clarify, I'm with those who think that the need for external exercise is being overplayed by people who just want to go out and nose around.
Most of them would have sat on their behinds if it wasn't for the fact that they are being asked to do just that.

Edited by swisstoni on Monday 6th April 12:26
100%. Its amazing now the amount of people that suddenly want to exercise and are moaning about their lack of being able to do so when before they would just have sat on their fat arses drinking cider. Ironically is exactly what they are being now asked to do.


smartypants

44,735 posts

124 months

Monday 6th April
quotequote all
sparkyhx said:
you cannot legislate common sense what is common sense to some people is not for others
No you just hope enough people have the common sense to understand the message and do it. And I think generally people are.

jubo89

9 posts

3 months

Monday 6th April
quotequote all
OSHB47 said:
What with the current global situation and government advice to stay at home, surely if you wanted to get in your car and go for drive, or go for a motorbike ride, is there any risk? The roads are empty, wouldn’t this be a great time to take advantage of it, and relive the boredom at home.
When you say take advantage of it, it reminded me of this:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-y...

Just shows how some people are not taking it seriously at all lol

markyb_lcy

3,686 posts

17 months

Monday 6th April
quotequote all
midenginedcoupe said:
markyb_lcy said:
You're forgetting daily exposure to sunlight, which is important for general all round health and the immune system particularly. That's not possible in a bedsit, and I surmise why it is included in the official govt guidance to take "outdoor" exercise.

If we all stay in 24/7 for a year and those without gardens or indoor space don't take exercise, we might avoid the use of a few ventilators now but we will precipitate the use of ventilators (for some) further down the line.

I appreciate that you're putting your arguments across with some finesse and logic and therefore you're not in the #stayathome ranting brigade imo, and for that you deserve credit, however the government scientists are more qualified and more authoritative than you, so you shouldn't be surprised people are following their advice rather than your (slightly more restrictive) advice.
I think you're assuming more than I'm saying.

The current advice is to only go outside when it's truly necessary, and taking exercise is currently included. But keeping enough distance while being outdoors is hard, even if you are consciously trying to do so. Pavements aren't often 2m wide, people don't always move over, cyclists and cars with open windows pass by with less distance than that. Etc., ect. Then there is also ample evidence of others either thinking the distancing rules don't apply to _them_, or that they're fine but it's everyone _else_ in the park that's taking up the room they need to keep their distance. As one of the ministers said the other day, if people can't get this right, or the curve isn't flattening as much as we'd hoped, then they may well have to increase restrictions.
The model does have built into it an expectation of (only) 75-80% of people following the advice (i've seen both numbers used in the press conferences).

Are more than 20-25% of people disobeying it? I honestly don't know but my feeling (and it is just that) is that less than this amount are disobeying it. Of course if you watch the news too much you could easily be led into thinking the opposite because they're making a meal of each infringement they can find (which paradoxically they're having to send reporters out and about outside to find).

thelostboy

3,898 posts

180 months

Monday 6th April
quotequote all
Exactly.

Out of interest, back to cars, is "risk" increased doing 130mph on a motorway if the roads are 1000% quieter?

I, of course, made that last figure up, but of course no one really knows; the police certainly don't.

What I do think is amazing is how gullible the nation en masse are. There are people thinking if you step outside of their door then, BAM!, you have Coronavirus.

On repeat, across all media we are being given horrendous stats of infections/deaths without any context. Nothing to compare it to. This is to keep us in-line, reinforced by the risk-adverse amongst society nodding approvingly along to authority to help reinforce the message.

In the same way some people are safer "speeding" in their cars in others due to varying levels of common sense and skill levels, it is impossible to govern individually. But it doesn't make it automatically "dangerous" to go over the speed limit, nor step outside as long as you aren't a moron.

I find it fascinating how people's beliefs translate into unwavering hatred towards those with with opposing ones. When, back in reality, all we really have is opinions based upon our confirmation bias'.

markyb_lcy

3,686 posts

17 months

Monday 6th April
quotequote all
thelostboy said:
Exactly.

Out of interest, back to cars, is "risk" increased doing 130mph on a motorway if the roads are 1000% quieter?

I, of course, made that last figure up, but of course no one really knows; the police certainly don't.

What I do think is amazing is how gullible the nation en masse are. There are people thinking if you step outside of their door then, BAM!, you have Coronavirus.

On repeat, across all media we are being given horrendous stats of infections/deaths without any context. Nothing to compare it to. This is to keep us in-line, reinforced by the risk-adverse amongst society nodding approvingly along to authority to help reinforce the message.

In the same way some people are safer "speeding" in their cars in others due to varying levels of common sense and skill levels, it is impossible to govern individually. But it doesn't make it automatically "dangerous" to go over the speed limit, nor step outside as long as you aren't a moron.

I find it fascinating how people's beliefs translate into unwavering hatred towards those with with opposing ones. When, back in reality, all we really have is opinions based upon our confirmation bias'.
Don't shoot me down as one of the "speed kills" brigade, as I'm not, but ... if you DO crash at 130mph, you're far more likely to need emergency care than if you crash at 50mph. I have no stats or science to back that up but it seems pretty common sense to me. Also unless everyone is driving that quickly, if there are others on the road (and there still are) and they're driving at 70mph then speed differentials present other risks.

Safest / best thing to do IMO is drive as you normally would (and within the/your limits).

Also, crime is down generally so lots of police with not much to do (unless/until lockdown gets tightened). A lot more likely to get caught for speeding I think. The mobile vans are still out it would seem from anecdotal evidence. Clearly revenue generation is still "essential" (tongue in cheek).


Edited by markyb_lcy on Monday 6th April 13:44

Lincsls1

1,429 posts

95 months

Monday 6th April
quotequote all
thelostboy said:
Exactly.


On repeat, across all media we are being given horrendous stats of infections/deaths without any context. Nothing to compare it to. This is to keep us in-line, reinforced by the risk-adverse amongst society nodding approvingly along to authority to help reinforce the message.
There is some real truth to this. The media is probably deliberately failing to add context.
Here is some. In the UK alone, approximately 80,000 people per year die from the direct effects of smoking alone. Then, thousands more die from passive smoking.
Worldwide, 5 million every year die from the direct effects of smoking....and yet, its still legal. Go figure!
Then we having thousand each year dying from alcohol abuse. And then we have huge figures from obesity.
All preventable and yet not.
Just for context.

donkmeister

2,470 posts

55 months

Monday 6th April
quotequote all
sparkyhx said:
donkmeister said:
sparkyhx said:
donkmeister said:
sparkyhx said:
Tosh, a couple of months inactivity is not going to change anything. If the reason is your 'mental health' then other self isolating activities come under that as well, hence my argument for it being nonsense and inconsistent. I don't exercise, generally never have, never will, yet going for a drive on my own for my own mental health is a no no. The rules are inconsistent and unclear, make them clear by banning the exercise 'loophole'.
Why do you think space missions of any significant duration go to such lengths to ensure sufficient physical activity for the astro/cosmo/taiko/othernauts involved?

What happens when you don't exercise in space is an accelerated version of what happens when you don't exercise on earth.

Your prerogative at the end of the day, but this is up there with "I smoke 40 a day, why shouldn't I?" ie it's up to you, but it isn't a good idea.
What?????????? what a completely specious argument

We are not in space, nobodies muscles are going to atrophy in a couple of months, I've had 40 years of general inactivity, I'm still managing to walk around without aid
I see the word "accelerated" passed you by... It's not just muscle atrophy, it's osteoporosis, it's stiff ligaments, it's visceral fat. I'm far from a shining example of what to do with a human body and I've not died but that doesn't mean I wouldn't have a longer, happier life if I got off my butt a bit more often.
Yes, I'm frustrated that I can't enjoy these empty roads in my car but I'm not going to throw my toys out of the pram about it.
Are you being deliberately dumb, I said specious, I didn't say your argument is wrong, just irrelevant to the situation. NOTHING IS GOING TO DRASTICALLY HAPPEN PHYICALLY TO ANYONE IF THEY DONT DO EXERCISE IN THE FEW MONTHS WE WILL BE IN LOCKDOWN.
Please disabuse me of this if you have evidence to the contrary.

and as for toys out the pram, the car is still outside the house exactly where it has been since end of Feb quite possibly with a flat battery., my other car is in the garage and its been on a battery conditioner since mid September last year.
Holy ad hominem, Batman! biggrin

My post was neither specious nor irrelevant. Have you ever considered how archaeologists can look at a skeleton and say "Oooh, evidence points to this chap having been a blacksmith"? It's because the human body (in that case the skeleton and the muscle attachment points on that skeleton) reacts to how it is being used. Not just muscles, but bones, tendons, ligaments, the circulatory system, the respiratory system (hmmm, might be an idea to keep that one in shape given the current risk).

The human body is not a machine that can be mothballed for a while, it needs to be used frequently to work well. If you sit on your behind for the next 12 months, your muscles will atrophy. However what I was pointing out to you is that muscle atrophy is not the only negative physical consequence of sitting idle.

Given your current state of mind, I'd seriously suggest you go outside and get some exercise... I'm being serious!

Solocle

1,433 posts

39 months

Monday 6th April
quotequote all
midenginedcoupe said:
markyb_lcy said:
You're forgetting daily exposure to sunlight, which is important for general all round health and the immune system particularly. That's not possible in a bedsit, and I surmise why it is included in the official govt guidance to take "outdoor" exercise.

If we all stay in 24/7 for a year and those without gardens or indoor space don't take exercise, we might avoid the use of a few ventilators now but we will precipitate the use of ventilators (for some) further down the line.

I appreciate that you're putting your arguments across with some finesse and logic and therefore you're not in the #stayathome ranting brigade imo, and for that you deserve credit, however the government scientists are more qualified and more authoritative than you, so you shouldn't be surprised people are following their advice rather than your (slightly more restrictive) advice.
I think you're assuming more than I'm saying.

The current advice is to only go outside when it's truly necessary, and taking exercise is currently included. But keeping enough distance while being outdoors is hard, even if you are consciously trying to do so. Pavements aren't often 2m wide, people don't always move over, cyclists and cars with open windows pass by with less distance than that. Etc., ect. Then there is also ample evidence of others either thinking the distancing rules don't apply to _them_, or that they're fine but it's everyone _else_ in the park that's taking up the room they need to keep their distance. As one of the ministers said the other day, if people can't get this right, or the curve isn't flattening as much as we'd hoped, then they may well have to increase restrictions.
In terms of distance, there's a reason that I've been moving towards cycling on main roads lately! You're hardly going to encounter dog walkers on the A303... did turn out there was another cyclist 1/2 mile behind me yesterday, who had the same idea rofl
But also the hit long distance traffic has taken means that such roads are barely busier than the B roads, and by my reckoning the higher road quality more than compensates for the slight increase in traffic exposure.

In terms of time period, I've generally been keeping it around an hour, although yesterday was a 3 hour blowout (beautiful weather, in combination with talk of banning exercise). The only person taking the pcensoreds I saw while out was a chap in a campervan on the A303.



It is worth pointing out that "1 hour" was Gove being put on the spot, and a qualified guess dependent on "fitness levels". He did formerly say to do what exercise you normally would do. But I'd suggest that applying some common sense is the best thing you can do. Don't go too far from home (yesterday's ride was in a wide loop, so never a huge distance from home). Don't do insanely long rides that are feats of endurance. For me, that's 200 milers, and there's no way that doing that sort of distance would be sensible, for me. But the pro triathlete who did that distance in East Anglia did it in 9.5 hours... and it's his work.

donkmeister

2,470 posts

55 months

Monday 6th April
quotequote all
Solocle said:
But I'd suggest that applying some common sense is the best thing you can do. Don't go too far from home (yesterday's ride was in a wide loop, so never a huge distance from home). Don't do insanely long rides that are feats of endurance. For me, that's 200 milers, and there's no way that doing that sort of distance would be sensible, for me. But the pro triathlete who did that distance in East Anglia did it in 9.5 hours... and it's his work.
I have been doing similar (albeit barely going round the block by your standards). The rule I've invented in my head is that I won't go further from my house than I would be prepared to limp home whilst pushing my damaged bike, so I don't have to call out Mrs D to come and get me.
The roads round here are very quiet now so I'm cycling on roads I'd normally never take my bike on. With less traffic the overtaking opportunities are easier and immediate for the few motor vehicles I have seen, so it's got to be more relaxing for driving too.

Riley Blue

16,550 posts

181 months

Monday 6th April
quotequote all
Man fined for 240-mile round trip 'to buy bread', stopped at 110mph on M1 with his two children in the car: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershi...

sparkyhx

3,439 posts

159 months

Monday 6th April
quotequote all
donkmeister said:
sparkyhx said:
donkmeister said:
sparkyhx said:
donkmeister said:
sparkyhx said:
Tosh, a couple of months inactivity is not going to change anything. If the reason is your 'mental health' then other self isolating activities come under that as well, hence my argument for it being nonsense and inconsistent. I don't exercise, generally never have, never will, yet going for a drive on my own for my own mental health is a no no. The rules are inconsistent and unclear, make them clear by banning the exercise 'loophole'.
Why do you think space missions of any significant duration go to such lengths to ensure sufficient physical activity for the astro/cosmo/taiko/othernauts involved?

What happens when you don't exercise in space is an accelerated version of what happens when you don't exercise on earth.

Your prerogative at the end of the day, but this is up there with "I smoke 40 a day, why shouldn't I?" ie it's up to you, but it isn't a good idea.
What?????????? what a completely specious argument

We are not in space, nobodies muscles are going to atrophy in a couple of months, I've had 40 years of general inactivity, I'm still managing to walk around without aid
I see the word "accelerated" passed you by... It's not just muscle atrophy, it's osteoporosis, it's stiff ligaments, it's visceral fat. I'm far from a shining example of what to do with a human body and I've not died but that doesn't mean I wouldn't have a longer, happier life if I got off my butt a bit more often.
Yes, I'm frustrated that I can't enjoy these empty roads in my car but I'm not going to throw my toys out of the pram about it.
Are you being deliberately dumb, I said specious, I didn't say your argument is wrong, just irrelevant to the situation. NOTHING IS GOING TO DRASTICALLY HAPPEN PHYICALLY TO ANYONE IF THEY DONT DO EXERCISE IN THE FEW MONTHS WE WILL BE IN LOCKDOWN.
Please disabuse me of this if you have evidence to the contrary.

and as for toys out the pram, the car is still outside the house exactly where it has been since end of Feb quite possibly with a flat battery., my other car is in the garage and its been on a battery conditioner since mid September last year.
Holy ad hominem, Batman! biggrin

My post was neither specious nor irrelevant. Have you ever considered how archaeologists can look at a skeleton and say "Oooh, evidence points to this chap having been a blacksmith"? It's because the human body (in that case the skeleton and the muscle attachment points on that skeleton) reacts to how it is being used. Not just muscles, but bones, tendons, ligaments, the circulatory system, the respiratory system (hmmm, might be an idea to keep that one in shape given the current risk).

The human body is not a machine that can be mothballed for a while, it needs to be used frequently to work well. If you sit on your behind for the next 12 months, your muscles will atrophy. However what I was pointing out to you is that muscle atrophy is not the only negative physical consequence of sitting idle.

Given your current state of mind, I'd seriously suggest you go outside and get some exercise... I'm being serious!
What are you taking?

I'll say it again, you state the truth but NOTHING IS GOING TO HAPPEN...……………….IN A FEW MONTHS you are not going to develop osteoporosis or muscle atrophy in 2 months of doing no exercise so your argument is specious.

LM24Nut

666 posts

17 months

Monday 6th April
quotequote all
markyb_lcy said:
Also, crime is down generally
Where on earth did you get that ste from? Evidence?

markyb_lcy

3,686 posts

17 months

Monday 6th April
quotequote all
LM24Nut said:
markyb_lcy said:
Also, crime is down generally
Where on earth did you get that ste from? Evidence?
Various serving coppers (and people who know coppers) on here have anecdotally confirmed it and some provided stats for their forces.

I can't say I can dig them out because they're hidden in enormous multi-page threads and I don't have the time or inclination tbh. Feel free to go digging yourself though.

The only sort of crime that is anecdotally up appears to be domestic violence.

Is it really a big surprise? Everyone is locked down and businesses are closed all over the place.

DonkeyApple

37,389 posts

124 months

Monday 6th April
quotequote all
I didn’t think the police were involved with crime these days? wink

LM24Nut

666 posts

17 months

Monday 6th April
quotequote all
markyb_lcy said:
Various serving coppers (and people who know coppers) on here have anecdotally confirmed it and some provided stats for their forces.

I can't say I can dig them out because they're hidden in enormous multi-page threads and I don't have the time or inclination tbh. Feel free to go digging yourself though.

The only sort of crime that is anecdotally up appears to be domestic violence.

Is it really a big surprise? Everyone is locked down and businesses are closed all over the place.
In other words, you have no evidence.

markyb_lcy

3,686 posts

17 months

Monday 6th April
quotequote all
LM24Nut said:
markyb_lcy said:
Various serving coppers (and people who know coppers) on here have anecdotally confirmed it and some provided stats for their forces.

I can't say I can dig them out because they're hidden in enormous multi-page threads and I don't have the time or inclination tbh. Feel free to go digging yourself though.

The only sort of crime that is anecdotally up appears to be domestic violence.

Is it really a big surprise? Everyone is locked down and businesses are closed all over the place.
In other words, you have no evidence.
No.

I have anecdotes that I've read. I have no reason to disbelieve them.

You are free to make your own mind up. Doesn't make any odds to me or my life.

LM24Nut

666 posts

17 months

Monday 6th April
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
I didn’t think the police were involved with crime these days? wink
Not to mention businesses and law abiding folk. But they're all locked down now and so crime has fallen???

LM24Nut

666 posts

17 months

Monday 6th April
quotequote all
markyb_lcy said:
No.

I have anecdotes that I've read. I have no reason to disbelieve them.

You are free to make your own mind up. Doesn't make any odds to me or my life.
Fair enough.